251 replies to this topic

[PEEFsmash]

EDIT: As of Sunday the 22nd and Monday the 23rd, hit registration seems to be a problem on all mechs again. I made this thread when there were about 2 weeks straight of really good hit registration on everything. Sunday the servers/network/whatever were totally screwey, everyone was getting randomly kicked from games, and hit detection on mechs of all types (from Cicadas to standing-still Hunchbacks to Highlanders), was failing. I thought the hit detection problem was fixed, but it isn't. Check the first video in the "Video Evidence" section to see different kinds of hit registration failures.

Let's try this again:
For the sake of discussing gameplay balance, hit registration is a top priority. Many threads have suggested that light mechs are failing to register damage even when hit cleanly. I do not think this is a real issue as of the latest patch, but is rather the result of self-deception and misperception.

I am looking for video from you or someone else playing during the most recent patch where two or more shots fail to register on a light mech or fail to damage a light mech in the same match. This is said to be a serious issue that makes lights "unhittable", so if it is happening, providing a single match where this happens 2+times should be no problem. To simplify: 1 video of 1 match where there are 2 failed registrations on light mechs.

So, please post video evidence of this gameplay balance issue occurring. It would further our ability to properly discuss this important gameplay balance issue, and possibly substantiate or disarm the claims being made about light mechs.

I will fill this spoiler tag with all of the Video Evidence of this gameplay balance issue as it is posted, there are currently 2 videos.

Spoiler

In this video, we see extremely clear missed-registrations on a Heavy mech, meaning that the current HSR issues are not light-only issues.
http://www.youtube.c...d&v=oNeT29fnEts

In this video, it seems that there is a couple missed registrations, but since we never see the paper-doll of the spider, we don't know how much registered and how much didn't. The player is using 250ish ping.
http://www.youtube.c...d&v=Mk7EdWPcA-w

Edited by PEEFsmash, 24 September 2013 - 09:17 AM.

[Andrew Porter]

Great idea for a thread, I am very curious to see evidence of this myself. Long suspected it is all nonsense, especially all the "ermergerd, fired 8 AC20 rounds into the exhaust pipe of this one spider who was standing still and it didn't even scratch him!!1!".
As a some-time Jenner pilot, if I'm not dodging I'm losing bodyparts like there is no tomorrow, would love someone to prove me wrong.
But they wont. Predicted amount of evidence that will be submitted = 0, predicted levels of baseless QQ = off the scale.

[GMAK]

I destroy all the light mech easy. Reinstall directx.

[Khobai]

There are no serious hit registration issues. Only serious hit box issues. Some light mechs dont die because their hitboxes spread the damage around way more effectively than they should. That was the problem with the Raven before it was fixed. And its the problem with the Spider now.

[Tynan]

I've noticed that a lot of the people claiming to have problems with this are...not local to the servers, i.e., in Aussieland or Europe. This is speculation, but I'm guessing that the higher latency would exacerbate any hit registration issues that still linger.

I primarily pilot lights, but the Jags I've been leveling lately haven't had any outsized difficulty splatting Jenners and Ravens. Spiders it's always hard to tell, since their hitboxes are so tiny.

[Dreamslave]

Yea, because so many players have Fraps, know how to use it/upload stuff or a computer able to run MWO (which is horrifically optimized) and fraps at the same time, at a playable fps, am I right?

[PEEFsmash]

Dreamslave, on 22 September 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Yea, because so many players have Fraps, know how to use it/upload stuff or a computer able to run MWO (which is horrifically optimized) and fraps at the same time, at a playable fps, am I right?

....yes. There are 10 MWO livestreams online right now, and I could name you 35. Plus tons of video gets posted each week on the MWO reddit and in barracks.

[AC]

I don't think there needs to be video evidence. I have seen spiders go down like other mechs, but then I have also witnessed multiple mechs trying to destroy a lone spider for 3-4 minutes on many occasions. The other light mechs don't seem to have this issue. They seem to be pretty consistent in how they take damage and how long it takes to bring them down. Spiders don't have this consistency, and PGI probably needs to figure out why. Is it the hitboxes? Host state rewind not working? Some other netcode fluke? Whatever the deal is, I hope they look into it.

[Mehlan]

Quote

There are no serious hit registration issues. Only serious hit box issues. Some light mechs dont die because their hitboxes spread the damage around way more effectively than they should. That was the problem with the Raven before it was fixed. And its the problem with the Spider now.

Really and you have based this conclusion on What? I find it amazing that YOU know this, yet the devs themselves have stated there are hit registration issues..... and how is it this 'hitbox' issue then, is not consistent?

Quote

Yea, because so many players have Fraps, know how to use it/upload stuff or a computer able to run MWO (which is horrifically optimized) and fraps at the same time, at a playable fps, am I right?

If said 'people' cannot figure out how to use google, to aquire the app...& upload it, they do not posess the intellect needed to begin addressing/commenting on balance issues. Being the nature of the beast, I find it highly suspect that the majority lack the hardware/specs to run both game and a recording app...

Quote

Host state rewind not working? Some other netcode fluke? Whatever the deal is, I hope they look into it.

Hence the purpose of this thread and OP's request. We do have in another thread, a link/quote stating from pgi there were hit registration issues that they are and would continue to look into and ONCE that was resolved, if there was still a problem theyd look at 'spiders'.

Edited by Mehlan, 22 September 2013 - 01:13 PM.

[RandomLurker]

Tynan, on 22 September 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

I've noticed that a lot of the people claiming to have problems with this are...not local to the servers, i.e., in Aussieland or Europe. This is speculation, but I'm guessing that the higher latency would exacerbate any hit registration issues that still linger.

I saw this while spectating a teammate battling a jenner. His laser were consistently falling a few degrees behind the target. Recognizing this behavior from my "lag shooting" days of MW2, I told him to aim forward to compensate for his ping. Jenner went splat shortly thereafter.

I suspect that latency is indeed the culprit.

[Mehlan]

Peef going to use your thread to put vids... figure each side can review and judge for themselves. Can't say either way...
Really need to get a two-three viewpoint (seperate videos) of each encounter.

Edited by Mehlan, 22 September 2013 - 07:41 PM.

[Marj]

RandomLurker, on 22 September 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

I saw this while spectating a teammate battling a jenner. His laser were consistently falling a few degrees behind the target. Recognizing this behavior from my "lag shooting" days of MW2, I told him to aim forward to compensate for his ping. Jenner went splat shortly thereafter.

I suspect that latency is indeed the culprit.

I agree for the most part. I have plenty of hit detection issues with a 300 ping. HSR used to work perfectly for lasers, hitting lights wasn't a problem. At some point this changed though and now hitting lights seems to be more difficult with some hits not registering. Spiders are the biggest problem, but I suspect that's a different issue. SRM's also don't work properly, even against slow moving targets (the devs have acknowledged this). It seems to be the same issue we had with ballistics before HSR came in. Ballistics are generally fine, although I have noticed UAC5's not registering the odd shot against large slow targets.

[BUDFORCE]

Lasers dont seem to be too bad, but I run a mech with dual LBX 10 and regularly smack light mechs right in the face with it at close range, for them to run off taking 0 damage.

[WarZ]

For OP and those who agree --> You must be in a very fortuitous set of conditions if you find that lights dont shrug off a decent amount of damage regularly. Maybe a combination of good ping, system specs, etc ?

I can hit lights comfortably, however the game presents numerous occassions where they seem to take a fraction of the damage they should have taken. I dont get too many situations where they take a whole alpha and sustain no damage, but it will happen once in a while. All it takes is one time to make you say "wtf ?".

Im sure its a combination of their netcode not properly displaying position (incorrect hitbox positions relative to what your screen is showing you), the bugs with HSR, and the client telling you one thing, but the server deciding that your client lied to you.

Of course this isnt talking about the issue with a mech like the spider which has by a dev post, "identified" hitbox or hit and damage issues. Those mechs on top of the current problems are what make people feel the issue is even worse than it is.

And just for some perspective if you think about it, this game BARELY is able handle mech positioning as it is. How often do you get close to another mech and the game starts bouncing you (or the other mech) around ? If the client / server even thinks you and another mech will be near each other much less occupy the same spot, you will often get ridiculous rubber banding type effects. Friendly and enemy mechs included.

Ive seen your stance (numerous previous posts) that hitting lights has no problems. I believe hitting things in general does have some problems. The problems are exacerbated with lights and speed. It sounds like your post is to try and make people acknowlege that taking down lights isnt really an issue. This is based on your previous posts to that effect.

Perhaps the set of conditions you play under (system, net, ping, etc) make it so you dont see these issues. However, other players do.

Edited by WarZ, 22 September 2013 - 10:44 PM.

[Exoth3rmic]

For EU players that get to drop with a heavy NA contingent we do find, categorically, that the difference in ping effects what we'd call our normal performance. My usual ping is in the 130 area, but will usually be inflated to double or more that when the large majority of players in the game are NA. This is usual from 2am + when, one assumes, the largest number of people are playing MWO and is entirely server related as nothing else (like our US TS host etc) has its ping impacted.

You may previously have seen this thread http://mwomercs.com/...roviders-again/

Makes a good read and may or may not go some way to explaining the issues a portion of people experience.

It's also entirely disingenuous to make a thread about this to 'debunk' problems that you yourself are unable to replicate, substantiate or contribute to other than to say "it doesn't happen to me, so it must be your perception of it".

I'm sure you have better things to do to help the community at large.

Edited by Exoth3rmic, 22 September 2013 - 10:59 PM.

[Odins Fist]

PEEFsmash, on 22 September 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Let's try this again:
For the sake of discussing gameplay balance, hit registration is a top priority. Many threads have suggested that light mechs are failing to register damage even when hit cleanly. I do not think this is a real issue

So I guess the lead designer saying they have been seeing the same thing many others see with Hit Reg means nothing.
.
Paul Inouye

Lead Designer


Many of you have cited hit detection errors. We’re seeing this as well. While it happens across almost all Mechs, it’s most noticeable with small Mech chassis. Bumping damage is going to help deal a small amount more damage to small Mechs, but the larger Mechs are going to be destroyed VERY quickly. We are investigating the root cause of these detection errors but it’s a deep problem. We need to find out if it’s in HSR (host state rewind) or is it in the simulation running on the server etc etc. Once found we will be pouring heavy resources on to the problem to fix it ASAP. However, I can tell you this, it’s going to take a while to find due to its complexity.
............................................................................................................................................................................

Mini Quotes: "Many of you have cited hit detection errors. We’re seeing this as well."
"it’s most noticeable with small Mech chassis."
"We need to find out if it’s in HSR (host state rewind)"
"it’s a deep problem"
"it’s going to take a while to find due to its complexity."
.
What about that annoncement wasn't understood when it was released..??
ALSO: They haven't addressed the community with any announcement saying the problem was found, and or fixed.
.
What was the discussion about agian..?? Yeah it doesn't always stop me from killing lights, as a matter of fact I killed an entire lance of lights and a Cataphract before we were capped, and it was a long fight.. One of Bravo light lance that was destroyed by me is a friend of mine, and i'm sure he would tell you how long it took to fight them off and get to their Cataphract.. Anecdotal or not, I was getting hit indicators with some heavy weapons Crosshairs lighting up, Enemy Mech readout flashing (showing hits), and Visual confirmation of AC-20, ERLL, and ERPPC hits, dead on at 60 to 180 meters as I was being engaged, and I litterally had to try and chase those lights after I managed to hurt them bad enough to make them grab some cover for a second to regroup for another wolf pack on me... I saw a lot of AC-20 hits just not change the damage/color of light mechs that were without armor in the spots indicated as hit by the readout showing where they were being hit.. 2 Spiders, 2 Jenners.. Believe me or not, this is not a rare thing for hits to show all indication on sensors and visual to not do anything.. If my senosors can't really tell me for sure i'm hitting, the crosshairs turning red, or visual indications, then how are we supposed to know we are actually hitting our target and doing damage..?? Where is the standard, how are we supposed to know if everything we see is not a true representation of what's really happening..?? Riddle me that.
.


I should be trying to record this stuff, but I was too wrapped up in the match (I usually am) to record it..
Next time I will try to predict when I can start recording since I only have 30 seconds record time for FRAPS FREE edition.

Edited by Odins Fist, 22 September 2013 - 11:00 PM.

[Imperius]

OWNED Peef! Vids say it all! Thanks for the posts/ups guys

[Rushin Roulette]

Exoth3rmic, on 22 September 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

Mabe you will want to press that magic "R" button to actually show the paperdoll of that spider and to see if your hits are registering, where they are hitting and if the spider is taking damage or not. Looking at the crosshair, it does seem as if the shots which are hitting him are also registering as dealing damage (Crosshair turning red).

EDIT: Sorry, looked at the video on Youtube (stupid MWO Forum software not allowing full screen) and the first shot in the air is a clear miss, the second and third shots are hits but not registering and the fourth shot is a hit and registered as a hit. Yup. the video evidence with 2+ unregistered hits is conclusive.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 22 September 2013 - 11:07 PM.

[Imperius]

Hmmm looks like Peefy ain't got nothing to say now or his alt account/cheerleader. GG

[UnlimitedMirror]

I'm glad we have video of this happening. Anyone have video on other lights seeing the same thing or just the spider?