230 replies to this topic

[Mr 144]

Ozric, on 02 October 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

So who's trollish smurf account is this?

It is most definately not mine

[Zyllos]

Here are some changes that would really help balance LRMs overall as well as give more meaning to Electronic Warfare and Scouting:

Mech Sensor Strength

• There are active and passive sensor settings.
  
• Mech sensors have a variety of strengths, ranging from 1000m to 400m.
  
  • Strong Strength - 1000m
    
  • Average Strength - 800m
    
  • Below Average Strength - 600m
    
  • Weak Strength - 400m
• Active Sensor Mode-
  
• Active sensors can gain targets out to it's sensor strength range.
  
  • Active sensors can gain targets without LoS, as above, but only against other active sensors.
    
  • Active sensors against passive sensor targets need to be within 75% range of it's sensor strength and have direct LoS.
    
  • Active sensors can NOT detect passive sensor targets without LoS.
• While in active sensor mode, "Warning Missile Lockon" will be provided if LRMs/SSRMs are fired at you.
  
• While in active sensor mode, your SELECTED target is shared to all other teammates.
  
• While in active sensor mode, you can select any sensor target for information display (armor, weapons, mech type, ect).
  
• Passive Sensor Mode-
  
• Passive sensors reduce sensor range to 200m, regardless of sensor strength, but work just like active sensors, except for the following effects:
  
  • While sensors are passive, sensor sharing is turned off. This only effects sharing targets, but passive sensor mechs can be shared targets.
    
  • Lock on can NOT be achieved at all.
    
  • You can not select targets for information display while in passive sensor mode except for targets within 200m.
• Shutdown mechs can not be detected by regular sensors (active or otherwise).
  
• This can be swapped every 5.0s.

​Information Display Level

• There are 5 (I, II, III, IV, and V) levels of display available when you have a selected target for information display.
  
• If a selected target is outside 50% sensor strength, then an amount of time is needed to gather target information.
  
• If a selected target is within 50% sensor strength, then Level III is automatically achieved when selected.
  
• Level I
  
  • Achieved immediately when a target is selected.
    
    • Displays target indicator (Alpha (A), Beta ( , ect).
• Level II
  
  • Achieved after maintaining selection for 0.5s.
    
    • Displays mech chassis.
• Level III
  
  • Achieved after maintaining selection for 1.0s.
    
    • Displays mech loadout and armor status. This does not display any weapons destroyed, active heatsinks, ect.
• Level IV
  
  • Achieved after maintaining selection for 2.0s.
    
    • Displays mech active loadout status. This will display any weapons destroyed, out of ammo, and # of active heatsinks.
• Level V
  
  • Achieved after maintaining selection for 3.0s.
    
    • Displays amount of ammo left, ammo location, active actuators, current speed/heading relative to your speed/position, and current heat percentage.
• Level IV and V can only be achieved if a BAP is equipped.
  
• Level I information can be gained by either selecting an enemy mech yourself or shared to you by being selected by a friendly mech.

LRM Targeting and Lockon

• Lockons continue to work as they do now, with the same lockon speed.
  
  • Once a lock is achieved, only the sensor target is needed to be maintained in order to keep a lock.
    
    • This means once a lock is achieved, you no longer need to keep your crosshair on the target to maintain that lock.
      
    • The target DOES need to continue to be selected.
  • A lock is lost if the sensor target is lost or not selected for any reason.
    
    • A lock can be lost if the sensor target moves out of the forward arc of the locking mech, regardless if the sensor target was never lost.
• LRMs target specific locations (like SSRMs) in swarms (5 LRMs).
  
  • LRM/20 would fire 4 swarms, each targeting a unique location (4 locations).
    
    • The percentage chance of a specific location has the same chances as SSRMs.
  • Each swarm is a single unique target for AMS to lockon to and destroy.
• The lock is NOT needed to be maintained for a already fired LRMs to reach it's target.
  
  • If LRMs is awaiting to be fired that had a previous lock, it will continue to fire at that previous last lock. New LRM weapon firings need to have a lock or will fire were the crosshair is aimed.
    
  • LRMs that have already fired with a lock will lose tracking if the sensor target is lost and under ECM cover.
• Target decay will last for 2.0s.

LRM Firing Patterns

• LRMs ripple fire in swarms.
  
  • Each swarm will fire in 0.25s as a launcher is fired.
    
  • Each launcher takes 0.5s to recover before firing.
    
    • Example 1) LRM/20 fired out of a 20 tube launcher will fire the entire 20 LRMs in 0.75s.
      
    • Example 2) 2x LRM/10 fired out of a 10 tube launcher will fire the initial 2 swarms in 0.25s, wait 0.5s, then fire 2 more swarms in 0.25s, taking a total time of 1.0s to release the full 20 LRMs.
      
    • Example 3) 1x LRM/10 and 2x LRM/5 fired out of a 15 tube launcher will fire 3 swarms in 0.5s
  • As an LRM weapon is fired, swarms are placed on a queue, ready to be fired by a launcher in the location the weapon is located.
• The cone of LRMs is called the "tracking strength".
  
  • The default cone will be 5m, regardless of the mech it's targeting.
    
  • The cone will center on the "bone" that was randomly chosen.
• LRM speeds will be slightly increased to 150m/s.
  
• Direct Fire Mode-
  
• LRMs travel in very low arcs toward the target with direct LoS.
  
  • This is the default firing pattern of LRMs.
    
  • This flight pattern is fairly straight, so the overall travel time is reduced in reaching the target but will most likely not clear cover.
• Indirect Fire Mode-
  
• If a target is hit by TAG, NARC, or shared with C3 coverage, then LRMs fired without LoS will do indirect fire.
  
• Indirect fire travel in high arcs toward the target.
  
  • Basically the same flight paths that LRMs take now.

Beagle Active Probe (BAP)

• BAP will increase sensor strength by 20%.
  
• Provide target information Levels IV and V.
  
• Will display if a mech has ECM equipped when a sensor target is received/shared to others.
  
• Will allow up to 100% sensor strength for detecting passive sensors with direct LoS and 200m for detecting passive sensors without LoS.
  
  • Can detect shutdown mechs within 50% sensor strength with LoS and 200m without LoS.
• BAP will display "Warning: Locked On" if an enemy has locked on to you.
  
• ECM will counter all bonuses of BAP except for displaying if a mech has ECM equipped.
  
  • "Warning: Locked On" will only be countered by the mech equipped with ECM, not other mechs under ECM cover.

Target Acquision Gear (TAG)

• TAG will share a target (as if it was selected) to all mechs.
  
• A target shared with TAG will allow LRMs to fire in Indirect Fire mode.
  
• TAG will increase tracking strength of LRMs by 50% (to 2.5m).
  
• Lockon speed is reduced.
  
• TAG will stack with NARC.

NARC Beacon

• NARC will share a target (as if it was selected) to all mechs.
  
• A target shared with NARC will allow LRMs to fire in Indirect Fire mode.
  
• NARC will attach to a location hit on the mech and last for 20s.
  
  • Each location the NARC is not attached to will be reduced the chance to target by 50% and added to the location the NARC landed on.
    
  • If the location the NARC is attached to is destroyed, the NARC will prematurely end.
• Lockon speed is reduced.
  
• ECM will wholly counter NARC.
  
• NARC will stack with TAG and Artemis IV.

Artemis IV Fire Control System (Artemis IV FCS)

• Artemis IV will reduce lockon speed.
  
• Artemis IV will reduce increase tracking strength of LRMs by 50%.
  
• Artemis IV will increase tracking strength of LRMs by 80% (to 1.0m).
  
• Artemis IV only works with direct LoS.
  
• ECM will wholly counter Artemis IV.
  
• Artemis IV will stack with NARC.

C3 Network

• There are two C3 modules available:
  
  • C3 Master
    
  • C3 Slave
• Any mech equipped with C3 will share all targets, not just the one selected, to all other C3 equipped mechs.
  
  • All C3 mechs will automatically gain Level III target information. If one mech with BAP equipped also utilizes C3, then all of it's target information for a selected target (Level IV and V) will also be shared, as long as the BAP equipped mech is continuing to select it's target with Level IV and V.
• C3 target shared to another C3 equipped mech will provide LRMs Indirect Fire mode to that mech.
  
• C3 will reduce lockon speed.
  
• If multiple C3 Masters are equipped, then those C3 Masters will become backup Masters.
  
  • When all C3 Masters have been destroyed, then all C3 Slaves will cease to function.
• All C3 shared information ignores the active/passive sensor modes.
  
• C3 Network provides no bonus to non-C3 Network equipped mechs.

Guardian Electronic Counter Measures (GECM)

• GECM has two modes, Disrupt and Counter.
  
• Regardless of mode, GECM will counter NARC, Artemis IV, C3, and BAP.
  
  • An active NARC will cease to provide any benefit when under GECM cover.
    
  • Artemis IV will cease to provide any benefit when under GECM cover.
    
    • This includes both the Artemis IV user and target of Artemis IV.
  • C3 will cease to provide any benefit when under GECM cover.
    
    • This includes both the C3 user and target of C3.
  • BAP will cease to provide any benefit when under GECM cover except for the following:
    
    • BAP will display "ECM" next to a sensor target to display at this mech has ECM equipped.
• Regardless of mode, the mech equipped with GECM receive the following benefits:
  
  • Reduce sensor strength of mechs attempting to detect it by 50% while running active sensor mode.
    
  • Unable to be detected by active sensors when outside of LoS.
    
  • Unable to be detected at all when running passive sensor mode except at 200m.
    
    • This only stops the mech from being detected as a sensor target, it does not keep mechs from selecting it as a target, and gaining a lock on it, when detected.
• ECM cover is 180m range.
  
• ECM can swap modes every 5.0s.
  
• Disrupt Mode-
  
• Disrupt mode is used to protect all friendly mechs within ECM cover from enemy mechs attempting to detect it.
  
  • ​Reduce sensor strength of mechs attempting to detect it by 25% while running active sensor mode.
    
  • Reduce sensor strength of mechs attempting to detect it by 50% while running active sensor mode and out of direct LoS.
    
  • Undetectable when running passive sensors except at 200m.
    
  • Target decay is reduced by 75% (to 0.5s).
• Counter Mode-
  
• Counter mode is used to counter enemy mechs within ECM cover from targeting enemy mechs and also keep enemy ECM from providing a benefit.
  
  • All enemy mechs within ECM cover lose all shared targets, can not share targets, and can only detect it's own targets at 50% sensor strength, still following the rules for active/passive sensors.
    
  • All enemy mechs within ECM cover and has an ECM equipped ceases to function on a 1:1 ratio.

Overall, the above is suppose to implement EW, LRMs, and scouting as being very important into the overall system without any one system overpowering another.

The active/passive sensor modes, just by themselves is a way for mechs to get hide from active sensors while outside of LoS. The penalty paid for this is that you can not gain a lock on a target and gain target information, you can not share your targets to other mechs (and you would be gaining very little of your own targets anyways), and are reliant upon scouts to share targets to you to be aware of where enemies are at.

Level I target information, used for calling out targets, can be given to players by being selected by one of your teammates. When someone has a target selected, not only is there a triangle displayed above the target, the called target letter is displayed. This will let forward scouts find targets to fire at and let bigger mechs run passive sensors to protect themselves be shared to where the target is location, and it's call target letter. But, running passive sensors without C3 will make it were those passive sensor mechs can't select the target themselves (unless under 200m) to see any additional information on where to aim at, ect.

This also enforces the idea that if you want to use LRMs, you need to run active sensor mode. When running in this mode, either yourself with direct LoS or a forward scout selecting a target for sharing with you in direct LoS, can fire LRMs at the target once a lock is achieved. And locks will still allow players to fire other weapons without interfering with aiming by not having to keep the crosshair on target to maintain locks. Also, once missiles are in the air and a lock is lost, those missiles will still keep traveling to their target so if you do get off some missiles with just a short amount of lock time, they will still travel to the target.

To gain Indirect Fire mode LRMs, someone needs to mark the target with some type of EW tool, be it TAG, NARC, or C3. Indirect Fire mode is always used when available, even if in direct LoS (this is because the target most likely will run for cover, thus Indirect Fire mode could clear the cover while Direct Fire mode will almost always not clear cover).

To balance this out, LRMs will now spread their damage out much more, regardless of launcher size, by randomly selecting a "bone" of the target, just like SSRMs. Unlike SSRMs, these are selected in groups of 5 LRMs, called swarms. And sense swarms are ripple fired out, salvos are much more spread out so AMS will be much stronger. To get around this, use larger LRM weapons with larger launchers to quickly fir e swarms out, thus reducing the exposure time to AMS.

GECM will no longer just stop targeting a mech all the way up to 250m (or whatever it is now). Instead, GECM is either used by the scout to get in close for itself by staying out of LoS (and becoming very hard to target until it gets close) then turn on Counter mode to keep LRM launchers from firing (but SSRM launchers can still put the hurt on mechs because all mechs can be targeted at 200m, regardless) -OR- used to hide itself and other mechs around it from being easily targeted (by reducing sensor range) while running Disrupt mode.

The differences in interaction between active/passive sensors and GECM produce some interesting effects. GECM can really hide a group of mechs by running GECM in Disrupt mode and everyone going to passive sensor mode. This greatly reduces the range active sensors can target them but the group will lose all ability to select targets and get target locks without a forward scout to share targets.

GECM can also be used to just reduce the effective range of LRMs by 25% by everyone running active sensor mode and running Disrupt mode. This allows players to just get a little bit closer without LRM retaliation, but only by ~25% (250m) so it doesn't out right stop LRM users.

Or some combination inbetween, like active sensor mode Raven with Disrupt ECM while mechs within 180m run passive sensor mode. This will allow the Raven to provide shared targets for the passive guys to fire at but the Raven will show up as a target long before other targets.

Either way, I have typed up enough and I doubt any of this will happen.

Edited by Zyllos, 04 October 2013 - 08:29 AM.

[Shakespeare]

Funny, my suggestion is one hell of a lot easier to explain:

Faster LRMS.
Right now, the interaction between ECM, BAP, ART, AMS, TAG feels about right to me - it leans a little too heavily towards benefitting multiple ECM coverage, and NARC is useless, but these systems are all doing their jobs, and a clever team can usually get missile locks, especially on open ground or fleeing mechs.

But.

at further than 500m, there's almost no point to actually FIRING once lock is achieved. travel time for missiles is hilariously slow. if you're 750 away, you can watch them launch at you, pour yourself a drink, type out a warning to your lancemates "lol some ***** firing lrms", THEN move out of the way. The only mechs that die to LRM salvos are the ones already engaged with multiple mechs, or are stuck in coverless terrain w/out any anti-missile tech. some of the narrow canyons in Cnet, open water on some of the maps, and the killing fields in alpine, are all places LRMs can occasionally do their work. The rest of the time it's "oops, I hit a building", "oops, I hit the ground", or "oops, I fired ten seconds ago but lost a lock cause it TAKES TOO F****** LONG to hit someone."
These days, I only use LRMs in PUG, and only for specific scenarios: firing at a mech I can't pursue, supporting a brawl that I don't have time to catch up to, or as a direct fire weapon from 400m or so.
But actual long range combat? Indirect fire? Sniper suppression? What a joke. it's like they've got wind-up propellers instead of rocket motors.
The spread, damage rating (when hitreg works), lock times, all feel fine to me. I'm quite used to the hoops one has to jump through to use LRMs. But go through all that effort to balance the system out, and still we've got missiles that crawl their way across the map. When engine ratings were higher server-side, you could actually RUN ALONGSIDE missiles. *headdesk*

Edited by Shakespeare, 02 October 2013 - 11:26 AM.

[wintersborn]

Sorry I have to LOL a bit about someone crying Nerf for LRM 5's even when boated.

AMS will eat up a Salvo of only 5 Missiles vs a true boat salvo of 40 or 60 missiles. How many of those 5 missiles even hit without Artemis line of sight or until you are smart enough to move out of the tiny steam of them.

Even when boated with 6 LRM 5's and enough tubes to launch them all at once in one of the 3 Mech's can do that is less effective than 2 LRM 15's.

If you are trying to say that a constant stream of 5 missile salvo's is OP you must be standing still. Even my stalker can run behind something to avoid that tiny stream slow moving missiles let alone a light that can just flat out run almost all of them it seems.

Remember kids LRMS are not pinpoint high alpha weapons they spread the damage all over the mech. The only use in PUG's is to help keep some Mech's in cover or to hopefully leg a Light.

If its OP due to it shaking the cockpit well there is little help for those that complain about that.
Honestly I think thease LRM Nerfer's have never really tried being an effective support LRM boat. All I see is "they are a one button no skill weapon, they shoot over buildings and so on which is utter BS.

[Shockwave144]

wintersborn, on 02 October 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

If you are trying to say that a constant stream of 5 missile salvo's is OP you must be standing still. Even my stalker can run behind something to avoid that tiny stream slow moving missiles let alone a light that can just flat out run almost all of them it seems.

Show me the point in the video when he stops shooting because of cooldown.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

wintersborn, on 02 October 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Remember kids LRMS are not pinpoint high alpha weapons they spread the damage all over the mech. The only use in PUG's is to help keep some Mech's in cover or to hopefully leg a Light.

Having a no skill weapon that can lock on to a target 1000m away while behind cover is ruining the game. I call it no skill because compared to every other weapon in the game, you are 98% of the time never in any danger but are able to pound the other mechs into the ground. There's no risk involved.

wintersborn, on 02 October 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

If its OP due to it shaking the cockpit well there is little help for those that complain about that. Honestly I think these LRM Nerfer's have never really tried being an effective support LRM boat. All I see is "they are a one button no skill weapon, they shoot over buildings and so on which is utter BS.

That's all you got? We have to be an LRM to understand their hardship? No, you just have to be on the other end of it to know it needs to be fixed. At the very least it needs to produce a large amount of heat to stop LRM spamming.



Hey kids, how man LRMs can you count? That's right, 10! All those LRMs in the air before the first one ever hits its target. Yeah, that's real balanced...

[wintersborn]

Video shows me that 23-24 LRM salvo's look like they all hit the right arm torso, did not even take the limb off let alone kill the mech. The CAT appears to have used Artemis since as soon as you went out of sight the salvos missed due to loss of target. That's right he had to constantly target the Mech with line of sight in range just like any other "Skilled" weapon in the game.

It also shows that the mech was in range in the open with constant line of sight for 15-16 seconds let alone the first Salvo's flight time of maybe 5 seconds without death. So you think you would last 20 seconds of running into fire from a quad UAC5's or quad PPC's or a pair of AC/20's or Guass with out at least having a limb come off or die?

Where is his AMS or his buddy's AMS or ECM? why not fire back at the CAT and just let him unload on the Mech?

Honestly since you said you have never played a LRM boat but just been hit by LRM's you should really try it and see for yourself how hard it is to be even slightly effective in a PUG.

Oh and if you are crying Nerf/OP over a stream of 10 LRM 5's (50) salvo's wait until you get 90 LRM's dumped on your head in just one salvo let alone the other salvo's still in flight. That's why most players don't walk into fire or stand still for 10-20 seconds.

Edited by wintersborn, 02 October 2013 - 05:34 PM.

[Kaspirikay]

Shockwave144, on 02 October 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Hey kids, how man LRMs can you count? That's right, 10! All those LRMs in the air before the first one ever hits its target. Yeah, that's real balanced...

>A1 LRM5 Boat
>mfw

[Shockwave144]

wintersborn, on 02 October 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

That's right he had to constantly target the Mech with line of sight in range just like any other "Skilled" weapon in the game.

So as long as you have LoS, you have skill? lol

Yeah, he actually had to lift a finger and it's only because no one else was targeting the assault mech.

wintersborn, on 02 October 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

It also shows that the mech was in range in the open with constant line of sight for 15-16 seconds let alone the first Salvo's flight time of maybe 5 seconds without death. So you think you would last 20 seconds of running into fire from a quad UAC5's or quad PPC's or a pair of AC/20's or Gauss with out at least having a limb come off or die?

Yup. You could barely see the top of the catapult's head. If someone was using the other weapons you mentioned, they'ed have to show more of their body, if not the whole top half.

wintersborn, on 02 October 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Where is his AMS or his buddy's AMS or ECM?

So everyone must carry an AMS because of LRM spam? How about they didn't have enough room. There are plenty of reasons people don't carry it.

wintersborn, on 02 October 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

why not fire back at the CAT and just let him unload on the Mech?

You must have watched a different video than the one posted. Did you not see the constant screen shake from the stream of unending LRMs?

wintersborn, on 02 October 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Honestly since you said you have never played a LRM boat but just been hit by LRM's you should really try it and see for yourself how hard it is to be even slightly effective in a PUG.

I never said that. I said you don't need to play it to understand it shouldn't be this devastating. Any other mech lower than an assault would have been crushed.

wintersborn, on 02 October 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Oh and if you are crying Nerf/OP over a stream of 10 LRM 5's (50) salvo's wait until you get 90 LRM's dumped on your head in just one salvo let alone the other salvo's still in flight. That's why most players don't walk into fire or stand still for 10-20 seconds.

You people love using that "crying" word, don't you. They were caught out in the open. There is hardly any cover on that map. He tried to close the distance so the CAT would lose LoS. Sorry we can't all be as great as you.

Kaspirikay, on 02 October 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

>A1 LRM5 Boat
>mfw

Good contribution...

Edited by Shockwave144, 02 October 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[Mr 144]

^^^ This guy, lulz...proving the reason troll builds exist one post at a time...

[Shockwave144]

Mr 144, on 02 October 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

^^^ This guy, lulz...proving the reason troll builds exist one post at a time...

Nothing better to do than to stalk people on these forums? Good use of your time but it's probably all you have.

[wintersborn]

Sorry Shockwave but, Honestly try a true LRM boat (CAT, AWS 8R, STK H) with at least 2xLRM 20's or 4xLRM15's and you will see what we mean. Then save up the Billions for the extra gear and perks needed to make them even viable and you will see.

There is a very good reason you never see the competitive players use them and hardly any in PUG's.

They are not really worth it and most definitely not OP.

Edited by wintersborn, 02 October 2013 - 09:41 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

Wolfways, on 01 October 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

I'd rather be able to use LRM's effectively for direct fire than sit around waiting for teammates to get locks which is extremely boring imo. As far as i know no other MW game made LRM's an "indirect fire weapon". They just have that ability.
Although, i think the amount of cover on the majority of maps, plus the slow flight speed, is one of the biggest problems with direct fire.
Even when using my Catapult i'm constantly on the move. Sitting at the back means death by lights.

Gotta use both especially at the start!

[CravenMadness]

stopped taking this guy even half serious at

"So everyone must carry an AMS because of LRM spam? How about they didn't have enough room. There are plenty of reasons people don't carry it."

Get yourself a lurmbrella and go singing under the painbow.

[Joseph Mallan]

Shockwave144, on 02 October 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

So as long as you have LoS, you have skill? lol

a bit more than the point and click of direct fire weapons yeah... you do

Quote

Yup. You could barely see the top of the catapult's head. If someone was using the other weapons you mentioned, they'ed have to show more of their body, if not the whole top half.

So because he used the Mech properly and maxed his cover... he's a bad player?

Quote

So everyone must carry an AMS because of LRM spam? How about they didn't have enough room. There are plenty of reasons people don't carry it.

Just like every soldier has to carry a helmet, carry a weapon, and has Biological gear. If you know Missiles will be used you are a fool o not bring a counter measure.

Quote

You must have watched a different video than the one posted. Did you not see the constant screen shake from the stream of unending LRMs?

So getting hammered by explosives should allow you a steady aim???

Quote

I never said that. I said you don't need to play it to understand it shouldn't be this devastating. Any other mech lower than an assault would have been crushed.

As they would if a group was PPC boating, AC20 Boating, Ultra5 boating... See a pattern here?

Quote

You people love using that "crying" word, don't you. They were caught out in the open. There is hardly any cover on that map. He tried to close the distance so the CAT would lose LoS. Sorry we can't all be as great as you.

He tried, he failed, would it be any different caught out in the open vs PPCs an Ballistics?

[Wolfways]

Shockwave144, on 02 October 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Yup. You could barely see the top of the catapult's head. If someone was using the other weapons you mentioned, they'ed have to show more of their body, if not the whole top half.

You could see enough of the Catapult that if it was a Jager or K2 it would be firing AC's or PPC's.

Quote

So everyone must carry an AMS because of LRM spam? How about they didn't have enough room. There are plenty of reasons people don't carry it.

I's still am option. If you don't like getting hit by LRM5's make some room for an AMS. If you don't want to use it on your mech then that must be because you don't think it's important enough.

[Hisashi No Oni]

Agreed ECM needed to go the day it was implemented (incorrectly) And the active probe needs to work as it was intended to. That would fix most missile problems. The way the game environment has been dominated by ECM has been ridiculous. If this is what the dev's want just give mechs invisibility and be honest with everyone about where they want the game to go in the future.

[Shockwave144]

Wolfways, on 03 October 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

You could see enough of the Catapult that if it was a Jager or K2 it would be firing AC's or PPC's.

AC's and PPC's don't auto track so he would not hit me every single time. Also, I'd have a chance to aim and shoot back since my screen wouldn't be wobbling all over the place. Why? Because he wouldn't want to overheat since those weapons can't be fired constantly, unlike LRM's.

Why does it feel like I'm the only one who knows this.

Wolfways, on 03 October 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

It's still am option. If you don't like getting hit by LRM5's make some room for an AMS. If you don't want to use it on your mech then that must be because you don't think it's important enough.

Sorry but no.

LRM's are the only weapons in the game that require you to bring a defenseive weapon which takes up tonnage. Since LRM's auto track and require little to no effort to use, the AMS should be more effective since it's mandatory, as you say. I wish I didn't have to use it everytime but the current AMS doesn't cut it against and endless wave of rockets.

Bottom line, if PGI won't make them skill-based weapons (ie: wire-guided) or make them produce much more heat then they need to severely buff the AMS or introduce new AMS type weapons, even if they take up more space.

Edited by Shockwave144, 03 October 2013 - 12:40 PM.

[Wolfways]

Shockwave144, on 03 October 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

AC's and PPC's don't auto track so he would not hit me every single time. Also, I'd have a chance to aim and shoot back since my screen wouldn't be wobbling all over the place. Why? Because he wouldn't want to overheat since those weapons can't be fired constantly, unlike LRM's.

Why does it feel like I'm the only one who knows this.

Apparently you don't know that AC's cause shake too. Not that it would have mattered. If that was my Jager on the hill the Victor would be destroyed in under 10 seconds.

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Sorry but no.

LRM's are the only weapons in the game that require you to bring a defenseive weapon which takes up tonnage.

It's not required, but it helps. Also, ECM is used defensively against Streaks.

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Since LRM's auto track and require little to no effort to use,

Little effort, but still more effort than any other weapon in the game...except the gauss maybe.

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the AMS should be more effective since it's mandatory,

Not mandatory, optional. I only use AMS on a few of my mechs, mainly assaults, and i don't have problems with LRM's.

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as you say. I wish I didn't have to use it everytime but the current AMS doesn't cut it against and endless wave of rockets.

If by endless spam you mean LRM5's then the AMS actually destroys nearly all the missiles.

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Bottom line, if PGI won't make them skill-based weapons (ie: wire-guided)

They are guided.

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or make them produce much more heat then they need to severely buff the AMS or introduce new AMS type weapons, even if they take up more space.

So you don't want to use AMS because they take up space, but want better AMS that takes up more space? Okay...
Anyway, LRM's have already been nerfed into the ground so much that they are almost useless now. They actually need a buff or three.

[wintersborn]

Shockwave I can tell you don't use LRM's because as pointed out by many people you are still incorrect about a few things.

They are not "Auto track weapons" and lets forget about any other team mechs for this to sink in.

First you need to take the time to target a mech within range, you know that ® button.
Then you after you get a lock which takes time, then you must keep that target targeted. That means spending time to keep it in line of sight especially if you spent them money on Artemis and want most of the salvo to hit. Or painting the target mech not just the target box with your TAG laser the entire flight time of that Salvo. That time targeting and tracking the target can be up to 10 seconds or more before you hit and involves more buttons, time and money/gear to function effectively.

That is not "Auto track" or "OP" by any means.

Then you add in ECM, AMS, Cover, return fire and yes "Heat" build up from firing LRM's. If you are chain firing LRM5's you are just using them for light defense or cockpit shake since they do not do much damage as you have seen. The heat from tossing 90LRM's at a time is very noticeable trust me.

A pair or quad ERLL's is soo much more effective for long range support due to very quick "Pop Tart' tactics and high pinpoint alpha damage, something the LRM can not do.

Again spend the money and a week trying to be effective as a true LRM boat/support mech then come back and you will see.

You need to track that target without it moving into cover or if your torso can not keep up with a light fast mech (45 deg. past cockpit view?) you loose that target

[Kitane]

A lovely video of noobie Victor getting pummeled.

What is truly sad is any lack of defensive torso twisting of the Victor. He did not shoot back, he had no reason to keep his orientation fixed. A bit of torso turning would spread out the damage across 3-5 components and kept the damage to each component minimal...

Only newbies who have yet to learn the game can possibly complain about LRMs being OP.