10408 replies to this topic

[Roc Ingersol]

@Koniving -- I say always go with your gut. Granted that I am a new guy so my opinion holds little weight.

Is it pretty easy to make the transition from hunchback 2c to the IS Hunchie?

Edited by Chuck E Finley, 25 February 2017 - 12:22 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Koniving, on 25 February 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

Please help me make up my mind.

Spoiler

I would go for the Supernova. However, I am biased. I liked that mech a lot, and now I'm enjoying the one I have.

I would recommend doing more analysis one what type of hardpoints are available to each chassis, and in what quantity, before you make your final decision.

For example, The most amount of missile hardpoints you will see on a Supernova is 4 (2 in each ST), on the A. Followed by 3 on the hero.

The most ballistics you will see is 2 (1 in each arm). On the Hero. The rest will all pack just energy, in several varieties of set ups.

[IraqiWalker]

Chuck E Finley, on 25 February 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

@Koniving -- I say always go with your gut. Granted that I am a new guy so my opinion holds little weight.

Is it pretty easy to make the transition from hunchback 2c to the IS Hunchie?

Not in my opinion. With the 2C you never really learned how to torso twist to shield only one side. With all variants of the IS hunchie (except the SP), you will need to be really good at it.

The good news is that the Hunchie is durable, and mobile. You'll need to get used to packing less firepower than your clan counterpart, though. However, you have IS ACs, which deal their damage in one pop, making things easier.

The HBK is also the no.1 recommended mech for new players because it helps them learn torso twisting early.


TL;DR: It won't be easy, but it is highly recommended.

[Rogue Jedi]

Chuck E Finley, on 25 February 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

@Koniving -- I say always go with your gut. Granted that I am a new guy so my opinion holds little weight.

Is it pretty easy to make the transition from hunchback 2c to the IS Hunchie?

if you are going to go Hunchback IIC and IS Hunchback I would recoment taking the IS Hunchie first, it will teach you to twist to protect vulnerable componants, perfect for making a more fragile Mech like the HBK-IIC survive more incoming damage.

because the IS Hunchback has most of its firepower on one side and you will be aiming to sacrifice the other side first I would advise against an XL engine in the IS Hunchie,
the way I upgrade them is Double Heatsinks, Endo Steel internals, a 250 or 275 standard engine, then use any remaining tonage for extra ammo, heatsinks or upgrading small lasers to mediums, if you still have more than 14 slots left then concider putting Fero Fibrus armor on

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 25 February 2017 - 02:13 PM.

[Tesunie]

Koniving, on 25 February 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

Please help me make up my mind.

Can't help too much with some of these, but I do know the Linebacker and Mad IIC (from friends).

Linebacker is great for fast and durable hit and run styled mech. Once out for C-bills, the missile one should be able to do SRMs well. So far, I've had good luck only with the Prime (I didn't get reinforcement pack nor hero) with two PPCs and dual SRM4s. I've had reasonable success with other builds, but not as much as I have with the Prime. Not much pod space, but can be rather fun to drive. (Only mech I've used on your list.)

The Marauder IIC is praised highly by several of my friends. It seems like it's a good solid mech.

I've heard good things about the Bushwacker, and that it's rather durable. It seems good from when I've shot at it in battle...

Supernova? I don't know. All I know is, is that I have been playing the Huntsmen since it's release.


Some of this, as you know, just depends upon your preferences and play styles. You seem to be a good generalist player, so any of them could work well for you.

[Koniving]

Chuck E Finley, on 25 February 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

Is it pretty easy to make the transition from hunchback 2c to the IS Hunchie?

Fairly.
(Vids linked are time skipped to the event in question).

The others don't seem to be aware of a certain, neat little fact...

You don't have to protect the Hunch side. Between its extra armor, the hitbox, and a armor trick called "2 rear, all else front" for the right torso... you don't have to worry about losing it. You do need to worry about the left torso, though, if you're using an XL engine. I'll be honest I do a lot of rear armor on the left torso, and when I am forced to "stop" fighting and make my exit, I give them my left rear briefly until I'm cold enough to fight again.

I'm not much of a torso twister if my main weapons are on the torsos. Never had a problem. For the right side anyway.

The HBK's right torso has 36 Structure and 66 Armor... If you put 2 of the armor to the rear for that tiny rear hitbox...
You have 100 hitpoints protecting the right torso.from everything in front and to the side of you. If anything use the right torso to protect your body.
There's a total of 96 on the center torso of which you should have at least 12 on the rear.
And a total of 72 on the left torso, of which you should have at least 12 on the rear (due to that drum), preferably 16.

Logic dictates you should protect the right side by how it looks.
The stats say your real weak point is the left side.
The real experience... Hardly anyone's smart enough to go for the left side. Meaning while you can learn twisting, it isn't essential to surviving. If anything I say start with the HBK IIC and work up to the HBK.

Remember the video where I kept saying I had an XL engine? I died right after I typed it in chat to brag... and what killed me? The last guy I faced stopped shooting the right side and shot the left. Boom, dead. At the time, hitting the drum from the front meant you got a rear torso shot, and I didn't have sufficient rear armor for the left torso. Kill streak of 8 enemies, with 711 damage done. Ended in a well place set of attacks on the Left Torso.

This is despite all the damage done to the right torso...
Despite the lack of quirks at the time meaning no bonus armor... Instead what I had was the 2 rear, all else front trick for the right torso and it worked.

It still works.

Edited by Koniving, 26 February 2017 - 04:12 AM.

[Jingseng]

I recommend not buying anything for cash monies, period, until the skill tree data is in public release.

Reading and parsing carefully the released data and rationales for the last PTS skill tree data, clans are just getting nerfed... again. It is effectively a 'stealth' blanket nerfing of clan mechs. As such, it makes me wary (and even regret prior) spending on clan mechs... and to a certain extent, even IS mechs. Because it is really hard to say how badly it will {LT-MOB-25} up and in which direction, until finalized and released.

It's like, maybe hold off on buying that fancy sleek electric self driving race car... until they figure out why it keeps driving off bridges or into buildings. It'll still be there until after they figure it out (and if they dont figure it out, think long and hard if a purchase is actually a good idea)

[Koniving]

Jingseng, on 26 February 2017 - 05:51 AM, said:

I recommend not buying anything for cash monies, period, until the skill tree data is in public release.

Probably the most sage advice.

I settled for the Javelin, just the entry fee, for the additional cbills and to try out something different in the future. I'll wait for the rest.

[Roc Ingersol]

Koniving, on 26 February 2017 - 03:25 AM, said:

Fairly.
(Vids linked are time skipped to the event in question).

The others don't seem to be aware of a certain, neat little fact...

You don't have to protect the Hunch side. Between its extra armor, the hitbox, and a armor trick called "2 rear, all else front" for the right torso... you don't have to worry about losing it. You do need to worry about the left torso, though, if you're using an XL engine. I'll be honest I do a lot of rear armor on the left torso, and when I am forced to "stop" fighting and make my exit, I give them my left rear briefly until I'm cold enough to fight again.

I'm not much of a torso twister if my main weapons are on the torsos. Never had a problem. For the right side anyway.

The HBK's right torso has 36 Structure and 66 Armor... If you put 2 of the armor to the rear for that tiny rear hitbox...
You have 100 hitpoints protecting the right torso.from everything in front and to the side of you. If anything use the right torso to protect your body.
There's a total of 96 on the center torso of which you should have at least 12 on the rear.
And a total of 72 on the left torso, of which you should have at least 12 on the rear (due to that drum), preferably 16.

Logic dictates you should protect the right side by how it looks.
The stats say your real weak point is the left side.
The real experience... Hardly anyone's smart enough to go for the left side. Meaning while you can learn twisting, it isn't essential to surviving. If anything I say start with the HBK IIC and work up to the HBK.

Remember the video where I kept saying I had an XL engine? I died right after I typed it in chat to brag... and what killed me? The last guy I faced stopped shooting the right side and shot the left. Boom, dead. At the time, hitting the drum from the front meant you got a rear torso shot, and I didn't have sufficient rear armor for the left torso. Kill streak of 8 enemies, with 711 damage done. Ended in a well place set of attacks on the Left Torso.

This is despite all the damage done to the right torso...
Despite the lack of quirks at the time meaning no bonus armor... Instead what I had was the 2 rear, all else front trick for the right torso and it worked.

It still works.

I commented before on another thread about gman having videos showing how to use metamech builds. I like it when people have videos to prove their point with action. I now realize you have been doing that for years. Thanks for sharing them.

I have to ask your reason for running TAG. Do you use it to call in lrm support? I read you get extra cbills and xp for using tag. I just wondered why you didn't run another medium laser.

Edited by Chuck E Finley, 26 February 2017 - 09:27 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Chuck E Finley, on 26 February 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

I have to ask your reason for running TAG. Do you use it to call in lrm support? I read you get extra cbills and xp for using tag. I just wondered why you didn't run another medium laser.

Koniving has mentioned in the past using a TAG because it gives you a visual indication if your shots will clear an obstacle, some maps still have invisible scenery so the TAG can let you know if the shot will make it to the target,
also it allows you to punch through ECM
if a Mech you are TAGing on is damaged by a freindly you get cbills and XP,
it speeds missile lock,
tightening LRM grouping
allows LRMs to make more course corrections in flight

[Koniving]

Chuck E Finley, on 26 February 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

I have to ask your reason for running TAG. Do you use it to call in lrm support? I read you get extra cbills and xp for using tag. I just wondered why you didn't run another medium laser.

On TAG:
I use it to assist with aiming, actually.
This game has a problem with "invisible walls."

See how the laser on the left stops on an invisible wall?

This way, when using weapons as hot as PPCs, I know my shot will hit where I want, and not only think it might.

There are added benefits.
1) Whatever I aim the TAG at is marked with a crosshair that anyone who can see the target -- Line of Sight or not -- will be able to see. It's like announcing "I'm attacking this guy; everyone shoot him."
2) LRM users do look for that symbol and attack it because it gives their missiles increased accuracy, faster lock on time and ells them "someone is trying to hold this target for you."
3) When LRM users attack my TAGged target, I get paid some Cbills and XP.
4) Similar to the primary benefit that I use it for, I am also given an idea of the trajectory my shot will travel. This is particularly important for ballistic weaponry (ACs and PPCs; I know PPCs are energy weapons but they follow ballistic mechanics).
5) When it comes to certain structures and obstacles, such as the "ship debris" in Tourmaline Desert, some of the gaps can be shot through and some cannot be. The TAG tells me which ones I can and cannot shoot through, so I can hit the enemy even when they cannot hit me.

As for why not another laser, you might have noticed two things.
1) That build runs very hot as it is.
2) I have a total of 6 lasers. 4 I fire at once from the right torso. 2 I fire separately from the arms.

If I were to add a Medium Laser to the head and tie it to the torso lasers, I would be punished by "Ghost heat." Such a punishment on a build as hot as mine would surely get me killed. <--would be true if I had fired 6 ML at once and were to add a 7th. That was written as if I had all 6 on the torso already. Seriously though the build is already hot enough and with the extreme heat of PPCs, it is difficult to manage.

If I were to add the laser to the head and tie it to the arms... they would be incompatible, as my head points one way and my arms are free roaming. If you rewind that video to about 1 minute prior, there are enemies above me that are too high for me to shoot with the torso weapons. Even my TAG cannot reach them. Then, I fire my arms and I can reach them; this is because my arms are independent of the torso.

This is why I do not use another medium laser.

Then again, you might notice most of my other builds do not commonly use medium lasers. Instead I often use small pulse lasers instead This is due to their significantly shorter beam times, lighter heat and faster punch. Its a weapon preference for many of my Hunchback designs. My 4P however is a nice, slow build... and thus I do use some medium lasers.

Edited by Koniving, 26 February 2017 - 11:01 AM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

On my Stalker with artemis LRMs and tag, I once looked at the detailed scores and cbill earnings. I had 5xLRM5 or 5xLRM10 which means a lot of LRMs in the air, and I was tagging a lot and being aggressive with them, and the at least the bonuses I got from my own LRM tagging, was very little. They were something like 5000 cbills per good match.

But I don't know 100% sure if it's the same if you tag for other people.

Best use for TAG is when you yourself have lots of LRMs, not only to make the spread smaller but also it's important for counter ECM. Tag makes you pretty visible so without LRMs to take direct advantage of it, I would not recommend tag for any support build. Narcs, specially quirked narcs is different story.

[Koniving]

Teer Kerensky, on 26 February 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

But I don't know 100% sure if it's the same if you tag for other people.

You get the same bonus. The old condition has been
You get one bonus if your TAG is engaged when an ally or you yourself fire upon it.
You get another bonus if your TAG is engaged when an ally or you yourself hit it.
Each condition can be done to give a separate reward once per ally (including yourself).

Whether the "Firing" condition is still in effect isn't known, they may or may not have changed it since I stopped paying attention (and they keep changing the rewards; with how many changes they did since 2012 does anyone keep track anymore?).

TAG's benefits work for all locked missiles, as such you get paid for Streaks, too.

Watch and read here. Strike that. What I got was a spot (non-tag) bonus here. Not a correct example.


My large pulse, twin MG, twin Streak, TAG Trebuchet. From chase cam perspective thanks to Lordred.
(The Lore I read at the beginning, not knowing the match began yet, is about the Hunchback).

Edited by Koniving, 26 February 2017 - 11:20 AM.

[Husker Dude]

Chuck E Finley, on 25 February 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

Is it pretty easy to make the transition from hunchback 2c to the IS Hunchie?

I think it's much easier to go to the other way; beyond learning how to torso twist, the Clan Hunchie will usually move a lot faster and have jump jets, which is a lot of mobility to suddenly find yourself without when you switch to the IS versions.

[Roc Ingersol]

Ive noticed an issue that ive only ran into on polar highlands map. I run 4 x streak 6 and there will be a mech standing right in front of me within 300m but there will be no red triangle and it will not even try to target no matter how many times I hit target. Even if my teammate has him targeted. It happened vs a cheetah but it also happened multiple times against non ecm or ecm covered mechs.

My question is... would running clan active probe help with that issue? Its VERY frustrating. It has only happened when I run streaks, ever lrms.

@Husker Dude... That makes sense. Thanks for the responses.

Edited by Chuck E Finley, 27 February 2017 - 09:43 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Chuck E Finley, on 27 February 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

My question is... would running clan active probe help with that issue? Its VERY frustrating. It has only happened when I run streaks, ever lrms.

quite possible,

if you cannot target another Mech which is in range the likely options are, it is under enemy ECM, you are under enemy ECM,

in ether case an Active Probe would shut down 1 enemy ECM in range, so provided you or it are only under 1 ECM that would fix the problem, provided you are within the APs counter ECM range (I think 240m)
if you are running SSRMs or even LRMs AP is definately worth taking

[Roc Ingersol]

Rogue Jedi, on 27 February 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

quite possible,

if you cannot target another Mech which is in range the likely options are, it is under enemy ECM, you are under enemy ECM,

in ether case an Active Probe would shut down 1 enemy ECM in range, so provided you or it are only under 1 ECM that would fix the problem, provided you are within the APs counter ECM range (I think 240m)
if you are running SSRMs or even LRMs AP is definately worth taking

Thanks. I bet his ecm had me jacked up. I felt like an idiot only able to us my mpls against 2 mechs.

[Tesunie]

Chuck E Finley, on 27 February 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

My question is... would running clan active probe help with that issue? Its VERY frustrating. It has only happened when I run streaks, ever lrms.

If you are running Streaks, ALWAYS run an active probe. There is no exception to this rule. Ever.

Active probe is helpful to LRMs, but not a must have there. Depends upon the person, the situation and what the intent are for the LRMs.

Basically, just as Rogue Jedi said, only with emphasis to always take it with SSRMs.

[Roc Ingersol]

It happened again and I finally noticed the "low signal" when I was trying to lock. I didnt die this time but that mustve been ecm each time it happened. I put active probe on and will try that next time I am in game. Then I want to try 4 asrm6 and see which is better for me.

Thanks again. Betcha by the time I learn all of these little tricks the game will change and this old dog will have to learn more new tricks.

Edited by Chuck E Finley, 27 February 2017 - 01:48 PM.

[Jingseng]

Streak srm without active probe is just a walking ammo explosion waiting to happen.

Seriously, Streak and active probe. Together. Always. They are married. Don't break up a happy home.

NOT taking active probe with streak is like not taking any ammo with your auto cannon. It makes no sense, and you have a largely useless weapon.

If for some reason you don't have active probe, then the best and only alternative is to get active probe. Full stop.