910 replies to this topic

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

But that's the point, there should be LRM friendly terrain, and front load friendly terrain, (lots of blind corners!) but I'm just evil like that!

But Joe, the devs said that there will "never" be just a city map. They say that there should be "room to manouver".
Personally I can't see why we can't have somewhere that the 4G can play.

[Clydewinder]

Howdy.

I can't believe there is a 4 page thread about this. LRMs are laughably inconsistent, and not reliably effective as anything but suppressive weapons. Do I get stuck in the open and ripped apart by LRM? Sure, once in a while I'll be out in the water doing something stupid when the LRM carrier on the other team starts raining on me. At that point I probably deserve to eat 160 LRM hits for being exposed like that.

Chain fired LRM5 are USELESS against a mech with AMS or even NEAR a mech with AMS. LRM10 can get a couple of shots through. If we're talking about chainfiring LRM15 and LRM20, well then the missile guy probably deserves to do some damage at that point, for devoting that much tonnage to missile weapons. That's how the game works, right?

As for the claim that LRM takes no skill, I disagree 100%. It's a lot easier to MISS with LRM than it is to miss with anything else - for all of the reasons already brought up in this discussion.

[H Seldon]

I've been doing pretty well lately with the BLR-1S. 2xALRM15, 2ASRM4 and 4 med lasers. I just carry 4 tons of lrms and 2 tons of srms. Even had a match where I did 1015 damage, 3 kills and 6 assists. I basically use the LRMS for suppression, by the time I'm out I start to go to work with the med lasers and srms. That mech has a .74 W/L and a 1.88 k/d. So no, I don't think they are overpowered, would be nice to have a little more range (and speed to match) but feel about right.

[Fate 6]

Mordin Ashe, on 06 November 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

The obvious elephant in the room time.
AMS, anyone?

You still get hit by some of the LRMs, and your screen therefore still shakes. Plus, AMS is the reason LRMs are unbalanceable - you have to assume ppl can have it, so when they don't they just die and when they do LRMs are a joke.

I'm not entirely sure LRM damage is the problem here anyway, LRMs are really close to being OK in the current peek-and-shoot meta. It's the shake that's insanely annoying and makes the game impossible to play when under fire - reminds me of old AC2 shake dakkapocalypse.

Edited by Fate 6, 07 November 2013 - 04:35 PM.

[ColonelMetus]

barely any mechs can take ECM

[OneEyed Jack]

Tycho von Gagern, on 07 November 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

If you are using the terrain, moving as a unit, and many of your teammates are fielding AMS, LRMs are no bigger a deal than any other weapon out there.

More to the point, they become much less of a deal than almost any other weapon.

ColonelMetus, on 07 November 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

barely any mechs can take ECM

Just because you started this thread, don't let that make you think anybody cares. FFS, you're crying about LRM5 spam. What's next, Flamers need nerfed?

Only a few mechs can take ECM, but all but one of them can take AMS.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 07 November 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

But Joe, the devs said that there will "never" be just a city map. They say that there should be "room to manouver".
Personally I can't see why we can't have somewhere that the 4G can play.

Of course. But if you ARE using a knife fighter, where should you be? I love using my Jager40 on the River city and Frozen Maps. They have perfect Knife fighting zones. Caustic and Alpine are a nightmare unless you have ranged or support weapons. THAT makes you weapon selection matter.

[Zerberus]

ColonelMetus, on 06 November 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

A: Flooders use 10s or 15s.

No, we don`t, we use 5-6 5s and carry 2k+ missiles.

And the solution to is remarkably simple: equip an AMS or learn to use cover.

The ONLY reason these bulds are effective is because people are stupid and /or refuse to learn 2 things:

1. Not to get caught out in the open in a slowass mech
2. Mount AMS or expect missiles

Ironically, 1 makes 2 unnecessary, and works against more than just LRMs.

The first 2 weeks after the Missile and AMS buffs, EVERYONE carried AMS... but nowadays people just assume that LRMs are not supposed to hurt them, and whine on teh forums about their own failure when they do, supplanting their own shortcomings onto a weapon system that everyone knows is utter trash against competent players and a Hammer of God against really bad N00bs.

LRMs the way we have them now are damn near perfect. Not too steep, not too shallow, not game breaking but not useless....

PS: Don`t play the "but you`re a flooder, you`re biased "card. I own and play 32 mechs in all sorts of weights and configurations and the LRM mechs are the ones I drive the least.. but I DO understand how they work and against what targets.

Edited by Zerberus, 08 November 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[William Mountbank]

I just had an interesting match with two of these Cat-A LRM5 flooders. The great thing was that after I'd taken both the arms off the first, the second came to assist his buddy. Fun times!

[Joseph Mallan]

William Mountbank, on 08 November 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

I just had an interesting match with two of these Cat-A LRM5 flooders. The great thing was that after I'd taken both the arms off the first, the second came to assist his buddy. Fun times!

That 120 M min range is such a great window. Remember our/my rivals will not have that min range though.

This has been a Public service announcement brought to you by Murphy's Law.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 08 November 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Nightcrept]

Lrms are currently laughable.

You either go big with a stalker lrm flooder or a pre-made with designated lrmers or you run the risk of being a very conditional player.


The only good use for lrms currently is kill stealing to get your kdr up. But otherwise it is by far the worst weapons tree in the game.

[Randalf Yorgen]

Wispsy, on 07 November 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Find scouts and kill them...lol

Well playing against a bad team who suicides you one at a time is always going to go well for you...

However if many LRMs are used to support a push your forces are done for on Caustic. Also, I am guessing you have never played against the best LRM boat...the Highlander. Gets own spots, unavoidable LRM arc, huge ct focused damage but whatever.

Bagged me a few of those Highlanders actually, me in my little founders jenner with 2x Streaks and 3sl and 3 JJ's with a BAP. and seeing as how I can and do pull 500+ damage and survive a good number of fights in my jenner, when I say find their scouts... I kind of mean it. Sorry if you're too slow in your hvy/assault to do that.

[Tahribator]

Current overpopulation of Jesters are really bad news for this build. It's not unusual for a team to have one-two Jesters and if they stick with their main, they literally tear this build apart. If they have another AMS mech around, even the alpha (30 missiles) can't get through.

Nightcrept, on 08 November 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Lrms are currently laughable.

You either go big with a stalker lrm flooder or a pre-made with designated lrmers or you run the risk of being a very conditional player.


The only good use for lrms currently is kill stealing to get your kdr up. But otherwise it is by far the worst weapons tree in the game.

Really? Then tell me, why am I averaging 600 damage and 3 kills in my 6ALRM5 kitty as a lonewolf? LRM's work every time in a mobile LRM platform like Kintaro-18 or a Cat-A1. It's when you stuff them in slow, helpless mechs like Stalker/Highlander/Atlas they become entirely situational.

[oldradagast]

LRM's are fine now.

They are no longer useless when an ECM mech shows up on the enemy team, but they no longer follow insane flight paths that ignore terrain or explode with a zillion points of overlapping splash damage.

Serious teams don't field them as far as I know, and they are NOT that easy to use. You have to get a target lock, hold it, know when to fire and when not to (terrain, range, speed of target, etc.) Truthfully, they are one of the most challenging weapons to use RIGHT. But when used right, they do work well as area control, which is the point.

As for the flood of small launchers, it's annoying, but not something groundbreaking. They trade away ability to breech AMS shields for more cockpit shake and more flood damage. It's a tradeoff. I seriously doubt using a pile of LRM5's is going to turn a terrible LRM user into a good one, and I also suspect anyone who can use the big launchers could also use the little ones.

Long story short - LRM's are the most avoidable weapon in the game (aside from perhaps the flamer and machine gun) and are one of the harder weapons to use. I find the game far less interesting without them being viable, however, since they offer a different style of play and are one of few attacks that can control an area or get past cover.

Edited by oldradagast, 08 November 2013 - 09:23 AM.

[Nightcrept]

Tahribator, on 08 November 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Current overpopulation of Jesters are really bad news for this build. It's not unusual for a team to have one-two Jesters and if they stick with their main, they literally tear this build apart. If they have another AMS mech around, even the alpha (30 missiles) can't get through.




Really? Then tell me, why am I averaging 600 damage and 3 kills in my 6ALRM5 kitty as a lonewolf? LRM's work every time in a mobile LRM platform like Kintaro-18 or a Cat-A1. It's when you stuff them in slow, helpless mechs like Stalker/Highlander/Atlas they become entirely situational.

Post your loadout please.

Edit: The reason I say that is that unless you have some magic loadout then I call BS.

Edited by Nightcrept, 08 November 2013 - 09:26 AM.

[Wispsy]

Randalf Yorgen, on 08 November 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Bagged me a few of those Highlanders actually, me in my little founders jenner with 2x Streaks and 3sl and 3 JJ's with a BAP. and seeing as how I can and do pull 500+ damage and survive a good number of fights in my jenner, when I say find their scouts... I kind of mean it. Sorry if you're too slow in your hvy/assault to do that.

I believe your ignorance proves my point.

[thantos911]

If you had flat maps with no cover, nor ecm you might have a arguement.

[Burke IV]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 07 November 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

But Joe, the devs said that there will "never" be just a city map. They say that there should be "room to manouver".
Personally I can't see why we can't have somewhere that the 4G can play.

What a shame. That little raised up patch of buildings in river city can be a real meat grinder. It gives a taste of what large area city war would be like. It would be good.

[DoktorVivi]

LRMpocalypse taught me to always bring AMS. So I do.

I've even got an adorable little dual-AMS Locust.

[ColonelMetus]

this game needs more ECM capable mechs