193 replies to this topic

[Metalsand]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 November 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

You do a disservice to those who perform this time honored combat role. I for one love it when my team has good Reliable Fire Support.

Lol time honored role? So pressing a button is a time-honored roll in a video game? Not the team that you get who isn't braindead, not the brilliant scouts that actually cap points instead of attack enemies in CTR, and not the Atlas who decides not to be useless and doesn't suicide immediately?

If you think LRM boats take any sort of...skill to use, you are sorely mistaken.

omegaorgun, on 18 November 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Lots of people using LRM's also and ususually 2 boats = insta death... i hate using them it's like armchair warrior. They do have their use for suppression of pop tarts etc.

It's not even armchair warrior, at least in a plane you have to fly it, and usually aim some dumbfire missiles in addition to expose yourself to AA. With a LRM boat, you don't even have to expose yourself nor really pilot it at all. You just point at radar signatures and click and you wrack up kills/experience.

[Joseph Mallan]

Metalsand, on 18 November 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Lol time honored role? So pressing a button is a time-honored roll in a video game? Not the team that you get who isn't braindead, not the brilliant scouts that actually cap points instead of attack enemies in CTR, and not the Atlas who decides not to be useless and doesn't suicide immediately?

If you think LRM boats take any sort of...skill to use, you are sorely mistaken.

have you seen what it takes to lob Mortar rounds and Artillery on a target, from a safe distance from the battle lines? As for in a game. I press a button to shoot you with my ACs and lasers, I don't have to chase you with the crosshairs after I pull the trigger. Trust me, killing is easy. So if you think playing a killer in a wargame is anything remotely near hard you are more mistaken than you think I am. One is point and click the other is click and chase who is working harder again?

[Burke IV]

Metalsand, on 18 November 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

So pressing a button is a time-honored roll in a video game?

um... yeah

[pbiggz]

There is a reason you see almost no lrms in competitive matches.

[MadcatX]

Burke IV, on 18 November 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

um... yeah

lol, that very simple reply made my day

[Der Hesse]

@Metalsand
Try not to judge after you second match. That makes you look dumb.

[Metalsand]

Burke IV, on 18 November 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

um... yeah

LOL. Okay, maybe I should have phrased that better. xD

Der Hesse, on 18 November 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

@Metalsand
Try not to judge after you second match. That makes you look dumb.

Try not to brag after half my team folds? I only managed to get 25% of the kills on my team after all, not my fault they couldn't manage the rest of the kills.

[Nightcrept]

Metalsand, on 17 November 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Bought a heavy metal, outfitted it with two LRM20's yesterday, and did this today:


Because 826 damage with being able to point and click is hard. And don't say that I just got lucky that round, I had 526 damage the previous round. Right, because above 250 damage isn't average for a missile boat...meanwhile in real life, i average about 300-350 boating effortlessly.
Use an LRM boat they said, it's not overpowered they said. Meanwhile, if I were using a STK-5M, I would have had double the DPS. You've got to understand: you don't have to risk much combat nor have to AIM with LRM's...

A weapon that doesn't require risk nor skill to use should not be more powerful than a weapon that requires skill or aim.

Yeah I call shinanigans.

Post the load out for this super mech of yours.

I have been playing lrms for a longtime and I own a heavy metal and I don't think your being very honest.

[Kilrein]

pbiggz, on 18 November 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

There is a reason you see almost no lrms in competitive matches.

Hmm, using a situation that covers perhaps 10% of all drops as a vauge inference that LRMs are not that good.

Some other problems with this argument. Complete coordination of teams by all 12 players being on comms so an LRM unit is identified and either taken out by concentrated COORDINATED fire or neutralized by EMC equipped mechs.

Competitive drops - 12 on comms, lots of time spent playing as a unit, optimized meta builds.
Everything else - at most 4 on comms, some Meta builds, text and onscreen command window only coordination. LRMs with no spotters, spotters with no LRM mechs, etc.

[Joseph Mallan]

Metalsand, on 17 November 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Bought a heavy metal, outfitted it with two LRM20's yesterday, and did this today:


Because 826 damage with being able to point and click is hard. And don't say that I just got lucky that round, I had 526 damage the previous round. Right, because above 250 damage isn't average for a missile boat...meanwhile in real life, i average about 300-350 boating effortlessly.
Use an LRM boat they said, it's not overpowered they said. Meanwhile, if I were using a STK-5M, I would have had double the DPS. You've got to understand: you don't have to risk much combat nor have to AIM with LRM's...

A weapon that doesn't require risk nor skill to use should not be more powerful than a weapon that requires skill or aim.

LOL I did comparable damage in a Boom Jager "High Skill" direct fire! But I got 4 kills and no assists. You served your roll correctly. Helping others bag the enemy. I have comparable damage to this in both my brawler atlases. So your easy mode is matched by me in a brawler.

[Burke IV]

why dont competative matches mount a 10 on most or all of the mechs? say you had 10 lrms 10s on the field, you can call primary and secondary targets and hit both at the same time.

[Nightcrept]

It's hilarious that lrms are weaker now and less previlent in game then at any other point in the history of this game and people are still crying about them.

Lrm's are just horrible. Absolutley horrible. Most players with any skill just laugh when they see someone using lrms. The only exception to that is the stray mega boats running around from time to time.

The fact that some of you are complaining about them again is just sad.

[Dimento Graven]

Burke IV, on 18 November 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

why dont competative matches mount a 10 on most or all of the mechs? say you had 10 lrms 10s on the field, you can call primary and secondary targets and hit both at the same time.

A few reasons:

1. ECM, the standard competitive META includes LOTS of ECM.
2. If you're playing competitively you probably already understand how to avoid most incoming LRM salvos rendering them a lot less effective.
3. At best missiles would be used to keep the enemy heads down/push them from position.
4. Air/Artillery strikes. Accomplishes the same as 3, with zero weight.

[Nightcrept]

Kilrein, on 18 November 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Hmm, using a situation that covers perhaps 10% of all drops as a vauge inference that LRMs are not that good.

Some other problems with this argument. Complete coordination of teams by all 12 players being on comms so an LRM unit is identified and either taken out by concentrated COORDINATED fire or neutralized by EMC equipped mechs.

Competitive drops - 12 on comms, lots of time spent playing as a unit, optimized meta builds.
Everything else - at most 4 on comms, some Meta builds, text and onscreen command window only coordination. LRMs with no spotters, spotters with no LRM mechs, etc.

I'm a professional pug and I have never ran in a pre-made other then when introducing friends to this game.

That being said competative play is just that...competative. They will abuse the hell out of any game mechanic and or weapon to win. You can fairly easily gauge the level of combat effectiveness of a weapon in this game by the level of abuse it gets in competative play.

For direct instance. Everytime lrms have been effective in game you have seen them used in competative play. When Lrms have been overpowered you have seen them abused in competative play. I.e. full teams of lrm boats.

[pbiggz]

Kilrein, on 18 November 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Hmm, using a situation that covers perhaps 10% of all drops as a vauge inference that LRMs are not that good.

Some other problems with this argument. Complete coordination of teams by all 12 players being on comms so an LRM unit is identified and either taken out by concentrated COORDINATED fire or neutralized by EMC equipped mechs.

Competitive drops - 12 on comms, lots of time spent playing as a unit, optimized meta builds.
Everything else - at most 4 on comms, some Meta builds, text and onscreen command window only coordination. LRMs with no spotters, spotters with no LRM mechs, etc.

I say this from experience, you do not see LRMS in competitive drops, and the reason is they aren't that great. They are hard countered by ECM and AMS, they have a debilitating minimum range, and as you said, they get torn apart by coordinated teams.

Literally all LRMS are good for at the moment is killing people who dont pay attention... LIKE THE OP.

[Dimento Graven]

Nightcrept, on 18 November 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

It's hilarious that lrms are weaker now and less previlent in game then at any other point in the history of this game and people are still crying about them.

Lrm's are just horrible. Absolutley horrible. Most players with any skill just laugh when they see someone using lrms. The only exception to that is the stray mega boats running around from time to time.

The fact that some of you are complaining about them again is just sad.

I disagree that LRMs are weaker. What's "now" weakest/less prevalent in the game is spotting skills. A skilled spotter working in coordination with one or more LRM boats is EXTREMELY effective.

LRMs can be 'easy mode' with a good spotter. Without a good spotter, not so much. Don't get me wrong, I've come around to the conclusion that LRMs require A LOT less individual skill, though they do require significant TEAM skill, and specifically, your team needs a SKILLED spotter.

With a skilled spotter it's simply a matter of point your reticule in the general vicinity (somewhere inside the targeting square), wait for lock, pull trigger. Repeat. LRMs have more modules and add-ons available to enhance their efficacy:

BAP - yes, it extends your sensor range
Adv. Sensor Range module
Target Decay
360 Target retention
Artemis
TAG
NARC

There is NO OTHER WEAPON in the game that gets THIS MUCH assistance for being effective, so you load up a boat or two with Adv. Sensor Range, Adv. Target Decay, TAG, Artemis, and a spotter with TAG/NARC, BAP, 360 Target retention, Adv. Sensor Range, and Adv. Target Decay and you end up with a fairly deadly team.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 18 November 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[JSparrowist]

LRM's are pretty balanced right now, IMO. I hate seeing lurm boats though that die to a light because they didn't bring ANY backup weapons at all. Also, I love seeing enemies run lurm boats without any backup weapons...easiest kills in the game, other than Locusts.

Bring a couple backup MLs or something just in case FFS...

Edited by JSparrowist, 18 November 2013 - 10:34 AM.

[Metalsand]

Nightcrept, on 18 November 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Yeah I call shinanigans.

Post the load out for this super mech of yours.

I have been playing lrms for a longtime and I own a heavy metal and I don't think your being very honest.

I'm running x2 ER LLasers, with a TAG, a Standard 200, and x2 LRM20's. It goes at 45km/h, and I don't have speed boost. Works great, best build I've made so far. I have more screenshots of other victories, although the majority of my screenshots are only around 550 damage done, though i think a few of them have 8 assists if that counts...?

Nightcrept, on 18 November 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

It's hilarious that lrms are weaker now and less previlent in game then at any other point in the history of this game and people are still crying about them.

Lrm's are just horrible. Absolutley horrible. Most players with any skill just laugh when they see someone using lrms. The only exception to that is the stray mega boats running around from time to time.

The fact that some of you are complaining about them again is just sad.

May I refer you to my post where I did 826 damage in a x2 LRM20 boat? It's not about the missiles, it's about their ability to negate cover. LRM's are OP in certain maps such as Canyon which are covered in wide open areas.

[Burke IV]

well i dont think they are totally bad, but yeah if the other team drops all ECMed up then it puts a stop to them.

Dimento Graven, on 18 November 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

A few reasons:

1. ECM, the standard competitive META includes LOTS of ECM.
2. If you're playing competitively you probably already understand how to avoid most incoming LRM salvos rendering them a lot less effective.
3. At best missiles would be used to keep the enemy heads down/push them from position.
4. Air/Artillery strikes. Accomplishes the same as 3, with zero weight.

hmmm so really you just answered the question. Its not an LRM problem its an ECM problem. I could argue the other points but multiple overlapping ECMs... yeah that pretty much counters LRMs.

[Nightcrept]

Dimento Graven, on 18 November 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

I disagree that LRMs are weaker. What's "now" weakest/less prevalent in the game is spotting skills. A skilled spotter working in coordination with one or more LRM boats is EXTREMELY effective.

LRMs can be 'easy mode' with a good spotter. Without a good spotter, not so much. Don't get me wrong, I've come around to the conclusion that LRMs require A LOT less individual skill, though they do require significant TEAM skill, and specifically, your team needs a SKILLED spotter.

With a skilled spotter it's simply a matter of point your reticule in the general vicinity (somewhere inside the targeting square), wait for lock, pull trigger. Repeat. LRMs have more modules and add-ons available to enhance their efficacy:

BAP - yes, it extends your sensor range
Adv. Sensor Range module
Target Decay
360 Target retention
Artemis
TAG
NARC

There is NO OTHER WEAPON in the game that gets THIS MUCH assistance for being effective, so you load up a boat or two with Adv. Sensor Range, Adv. Target Decay, TAG, Artemis, and a spotter with TAG/NARC, BAP, 360 Target retention, Adv. Sensor Range, and Adv. Target Decay and you end up with a fairly deadly team.

There is also no other weapon in the game with as many counters and drawbacks as lrms. And the absolutley most glaringly huge drawback is the example you just used. You need a team designed for lrms to use lrms effectively.

Lrms in comparison to any other weapon of the equivilent is last in terms of combat effectiveness.