109 replies to this topic

[Nakamura Takeshi]

RichAC, on 25 November 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

I know there is not many black people that play pc games, and there is alot of racism and prejudices online that would probably turn off many if they did, but do any play?

I chose House Liao, I'm black and been playing Battletech (starting with tabletop, then the computer games) for decades. I chose House Liao due to my experiences in Virtual World more or less, nothing to do with race just chance. I think choosing a House based on Race or profiling players based on race is sad, it's a big diverse universe out there.

[Timuroslav]

Nakamura Takeshi, on 25 November 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

it's a big diverse universe out there.

That's pretty much the Theme of Battletech/Mechwarrior right there.
Diversity, Culture war, and Adaptation.

[SmithMPBT]

[Demos]

AdamBaines, on 25 November 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

I understand what the OP is saying, as there are certain areas or worlds which have a certain ethnicity or history to them like the Southwest Trinity Worlds in the FWL which "were primarily settled by various Native Americans tribes, Hispanics, Americans from the southwestern USA (Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas), and people of Jewish descent" That is from Sarna. Im sure somewhere in the lore there might be a connection to a primarily African decent world or area, but as pointed out by others, the African ethnicity or geographical location of people from earth is pretty much spread throughout the IS. Do some research on Sarna.net and you might find your answer there. Other wise, just pick one and you will be good to go.

Kikuyu is one of these worlds...

[RichAC]

AdamBaines, on 25 November 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

I understand what the OP is saying, as there are certain areas or worlds which have a certain ethnicity or history to them like the Southwest Trinity Worlds in the FWL which "were primarily settled by various Native Americans tribes, Hispanics, Americans from the southwestern USA (Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas), and people of Jewish descent" That is from Sarna. Im sure somewhere in the lore there might be a connection to a primarily African decent world or area, but as pointed out by others, the African ethnicity or geographical location of people from earth is pretty much spread throughout the IS. Do some research on Sarna.net and you might find your answer there. Other wise, just pick one and you will be good to go.

I was always STeiner dont' know why it was only showing on my profile. I just clicked it again. But ya some interesting stories on Sarna.net.

Interesting to find out settlers from Africa and America went to a planet called Hot Springs and were part of Lyran commonwealth, before they were conquered by clan jade falcon. The other planet i found was settled by Africans and South Americans called Deneb Algedi and is part of Dracon Combine.

But ya got more understanding of mwo universe history now. So its my understanding everyone was part of the star league fedration, but then the great houses started warring with each other, mainly federated suns and draconis combine.....and General Kerensky's son and and remnants of star league defense force broke into clans and started assaulting the inner sphere after a while.
Did I get that right?

Edited by RichAC, 25 November 2013 - 02:39 PM.

[Odanan]

Damocles, on 25 November 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

btw, there is no faction->race connection in Battletech. The universe is very post-terran. Which means that any continental, racial, ethnic terran origins are going to be spread across every point in the universe.

Hmmm... if there is no race, why 90% of the Battletech characters have Anglo-Saxon names/surnames and are white?

I'm sorry, but Culturally and Ethnic speaking, Battletech is very poor.

[AdamBaines]

Odanan, on 25 November 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Hmmm... if there is no race, why 90% of the Battletech characters have Anglo-Saxon names/surnames and are white?

I'm sorry, but Culturally and Ethnic speaking, Battletech is very poor.

Spend some time on Sarna and you might think other wise. I would say that a lot of the fiction is "Anglo" or "Asian" centric and driven, but really it is quite a diverse universe if you take the time to read all of the source books. And the clan.....there is not central ethnic theme with them at all.

[SmithMPBT]

The misconception of Battletech being very anglo was caused by the early novels focus on those Davion devils. Read some stuff from '89 on and you will get a different picture.

[RichAC]

Odanan, on 25 November 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Hmmm... if there is no race, why 90% of the Battletech characters have Anglo-Saxon names/surnames and are white?

I'm sorry, but Culturally and Ethnic speaking, Battletech is very poor.

Ya I mean our USA President in 2013 is named Barak Obama lmao...


It seems more like the story is about the past instead of 1000s of years in the future...., America/Davion the most powerful country, everything a European influenced culture....Even the "clans" remind me of Russian barbarians and army exiles in the dark ages attacking Rome or something....but its still all very interesting and fun to read, and maybe how it relates to our own history is its appeal.

And I'm glad to see a black guy posted in the thread. The internet has always been very racist and very white dominated and selfishly kept that way. Its defnitely not as bad as playing counterstrike 15 years ago thats for sure, and MWO has a real mature and friendly community for the most part which is great.

But in general, imo, the only thing that has changed with online pc games and the internet, is not more diversity, but more viruses and less people...especially less Americans(which might not be true for MWO).

Edited by RichAC, 25 November 2013 - 03:10 PM.

[RichAC]

AdamBaines, on 25 November 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Spend some time on Sarna and you might think other wise. I would say that a lot of the fiction is "Anglo" or "Asian" centric and driven, but really it is quite a diverse universe if you take the time to read all of the source books. And the clan.....there is not central ethnic theme with them at all.

You might be right the founder of Clan Wolf is named Jerome Winston I think, and he looks native american. Alot of names like Regina and Nadia are multi cultural....

I haven't seen any Jose's Or spanish sounding names though...lol but I haven't looked that deep, But at least spanish is still a language specified in the faction descriptions...

Edited by RichAC, 25 November 2013 - 03:08 PM.

[AdamBaines]

RichAC, on 25 November 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

It seems more like the story is about the past instead of 1000s of years in the future...., America/Davion the most powerful country, everything a European influenced culture....Even the "clans" remind me of Russian barbarians and army exiles in the dark ages attacking Rome or something....

Interesting stuff. I disagree with Davion being America as it very much an EU kinda feel.

I have really never felt the Russian vibe from the clans other then the Name Kerensky and the militaristic over tones. But then again...they are very fractured and battling eachother all the time.......so maybe your on to something :-)

I have always viewed the clans individually based on their characteristics, not as a whole. Even when you look at the two major "divisions" in the clans, Wardens and Crusaders there is very different philosophical views. They all do and did agree on returning to the IS to enlighten, but they all wanted to do it a different way.

[AdamBaines]

RichAC, on 25 November 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

I haven't seen any Jose's Or spanish sounding names...lol but I haven't looked that deep, But at least spanish is still a language specified in the faction descriptions...

Check out Camacho's Caballeros. They actually have a good bit of fiction written about them. Also sometimes i think its perspective. Me being a white guy have often assumed wrong that a character is white, because that's my frame of reference. I took me year to figure out that Leo Showers was of Terren African decent. The text clearly outlines that, but again its my frame of reference. I also thought for a long time that Minobu Tetsuhara was Japanese because, well its a Japanese name. :-)

[RichAC]

AdamBaines, on 25 November 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Interesting stuff. I disagree with Davion being America as it very much an EU kinda feel.

I have really never felt the Russian vibe from the clans other then the Name Kerensky and the militaristic over tones. But then again...they are very fractured and battling eachother all the time.......so maybe your on to something :-)

I have always viewed the clans individually based on their characteristics, not as a whole. Even when you look at the two major "divisions" in the clans, Wardens and Crusaders there is very different philosophical views. They all do and did agree on returning to the IS to enlighten, but they all wanted to do it a different way.

I guess your right Davion is not just America, but also Europe. It still all relates to the alliances of our own time in our real world though. The faction languages, seem like the Democratic nations vs others like in our own history. Which some like to pigeon hole as the dragon, the eagle and the bear. But man everytime you post I have to go read more on sarna.net . Wardens and Crusaders what? lol regardless its all pretty fun to read.

Can't wait for community warfare!

Edited by RichAC, 25 November 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[RichAC]

AdamBaines, on 25 November 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

Check out Camacho's Caballeros.  They actually have a good bit of fiction written about them.  Also sometimes i think its perspective.  Me being a white guy have often assumed wrong that a character is white, because that's my frame of reference.  I took me year to figure out that Leo Showers was of Terren African decent.  The text clearly outlines that, but again its my frame of reference.  I also thought for a long time that Minobu Tetsuhara was Japanese because, well its a Japanese name. :-)

  Couldn't find a camacho caballero reference on sarna.net.   The Leo Showers pic kind of reminds me of Mongolians attacking europe.....again the clan thing, in my mind.
But I see your point about the names don't nescessarily reflect what a person looks like, which would only be more true in the future.  Jerome Winston looks like a Native American to me in his pic hehe.

Edited by RichAC, 25 November 2013 - 03:25 PM.

[SpiralFace]

I think Davion being associated with America has more to do with peoples view of there Militaristic background compared to America's. Not their overall state culture.

Davion is considered the most militaristic of all the Succession states with a more "western" flavor into their arm's doctrine. (Kurita and the Clans all have that foreign tinge to their militarism.) When you look at the Davion MILITARY and not its overarching culture, its easy to draw a parallel between the opportunistic Davion Military and America's Military.

I think its that outlook of their military that makes people see them more as the "america" of the IS.

But in reality, the Freeworld league is more American. The most "democratic" of the IS ruling nations, has much more of a "free market" mentality both in its military and the company's that are there.

The Clans are not so much "Russians" so much as the Mongol Hordes of Genghis Khan. They where seen as a huge, unified "marauding" force form the outside aggressively gobbling up systems as they went, and are very "warrior class" centric. *edit* In fact the word "Khan" and many other clan nomenclature was derived from the Mongol's.

Sure their founder was from Russian decent, but that doesn't mean that they all are Russian. As the descendants of a multinational army that spanned the entire Inner sphere, there people are probably the most culturally diverse of any IS nation, even if their army / leadership is mostly comprised of in-breed test tube baby's.

Edited by SpiralFace, 25 November 2013 - 03:42 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Game created by white Americans

Where do they come from ?

Well there's this black dude lives two houses down

What about African culture ?

you mean Benson, and the Fresh prince of Bel Air, right ?

nuff said really

so in lore all black africans are american ego they're Davion


Which is why on the whole you'll see black people in every house but until a few later editions played catch up, they were mostly forgotten as four guys hunting down a lion over a period of three days armed with nothing but a spear each and a flask of water, is clearly not as brave or honourable as a bunch of spazed out space samurai.( this is sarcasm btw)

which is captalisms way of saying there are more rich people in Japan than Kenya.


which is going to be the real reason they got forgotten once all the bull is stripped away and being PC is pushed under the carpet for a brief time.

[Jonathan Paine]

So we have a huge galaxy, filled with planets and a lore that is wide enough to give virtually any ethnic background planets to play around with.... and the argument is which fictional feudal house is more or less racist? Remember, according to the lore there was a Star League at some point, unified galaxy and all.

With the upcoming player generated mercenary groups at the center, couldn't one create exactly whatever group one wanted? And possibly pick up a planet sometime in the future?

I think the simple fact that we struggle somewhat to fit "fill in random nation or ethnicity" into one specific house might be good for diversity? No?

[Kenyon Burguess]

Cathy is sorta correct. race, sexuality, and a lot of religious hot topics got shoved down the rabbit hole when the game was first designed. the focus was on the table top battle and pretty much any other question a player might have about such things was lumped under the response "sure anything goes in the multi-world houses. however, slowly over the years things have gotten expanded and much better in the lore. for instance, the previously mention arkab was one line in a book in the 80's, not its an extremely well written and expanded on system on the brink of separation from house kurita with characters, plots and written out adventures to explore. another highlight of the battletech universe is the large number of ladies in power. houses are led by them, mechs are piloted by them, they aren't the princess leah types either. but no, there isn't a specific African only house to choose from, nor is there a American one, its all melting pot. I just wish MWO included Magistracy of Canopus. that would have been my origin of choice

[Novakaine]

Well since the cat is out.
Go Davion that's where all the brothers hang out.
Been Btechin since 1984 for my USAF days.
But what does it really matter anyway?
Oh and brother's do play computer games lol.
And remember "It's always good in da hood"

[Strum Wealh]

SpiralFace, on 25 November 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

I think Davion being associated with America has more to do with peoples view of there Militaristic background compared to America's. Not their overall state culture.

Davion is considered the most militaristic of all the Succession states with a more "western" flavor into their arm's doctrine. (Kurita and the Clans all have that foreign tinge to their militarism.) When you look at the Davion MILITARY and not its overarching culture, its easy to draw a parallel between the opportunistic Davion Military and America's Military.

I think its that outlook of their military that makes people see them more as the "america" of the IS.

But in reality, the Freeworld league is more American. The most "democratic" of the IS ruling nations, has much more of a "free market" mentality both in its military and the company's that are there.

The Clans are not so much "Russians" so much as the Mongol Hordes of Genghis Khan. They where seen as a huge, unified "marauding" force form the outside aggressively gobbling up systems as they went, and are very "warrior class" centric. *edit* In fact the word "Khan" and many other clan nomenclature was derived from the Mongol's.

Sure their founder was from Russian decent, but that doesn't mean that they all are Russian. As the descendants of a multinational army that spanned the entire Inner sphere, there people are probably the most culturally diverse of any IS nation, even if their army / leadership is mostly comprised of in-breed test tube baby's.

My take on a short generalization of each faction:

• Federated Suns/House Davion: essentially the British Empire, with some additional French and American overtones
  
• Lyran Commonwealth/House Steiner: essentially the Holy Roman Empire, with heavy German overtones
  
• Draconis Combine/House Kurita: essentially early Showa Era (roundabout WWI/WWII) Japan, with a smattering of other cultures (mainly Arabic) represented
  
• Capellan Confederation/House Liao: essentially Qing Dynasty Era China, with a smattering of other cultures (mainly Russian and Scottish) represented
  
• Free Worlds League/House Marik: essentially the Ottoman Empire, with some Indian (as in "from India" rather than "Native American") and American overtones
  
• Free Rasalhague Republic: essentially the Swedish Empire, with some American overtones
  
• The Clans (to be made available eventually) collectively represent the "great conquering hordes" and/or the "romanticized noble savages" of the past (e.g. the Mongols under Genghis Khan, the Macedonians under Alexander III, the Romans during the expansion of the Roman Empire, and so on), while each Clan individually represents a separate society - the Ghost Bears are generally thought to be Scandinavian (like the FRR, with whom they later merged) and modeled in the spirit of the (romanticized) Vikings, the Smoke Jaguars are thought to represent (stereotypes of) the warrior tribes of Africa's past (most notably the Zulu Kingdom), the Nova Cats are thought to have been modeled on (stereotypes of) Native American societies (with the Wanapum, Cheyenne, and/or Sioux likely serving as primary inspirations), and so on.

Additionally, ComStar (along with the Word of Blake) represents the pop-culture rendition of the Illuminati, while the St. Ives Compact takes the role of "Space Taiwan".

The Davion family themselves are actually of French heritage (said to be a region in southwest France called Gascony), but the Federated Suns as a nation seems to be based on an Anglo-American model - in many ways, it is a lot like a mish-mash of the old British Empire, the current Commonwealth of Nations, and the modern United States.

IMO, it is the Federated Commonwealth (the union of the FedSuns and the Lyran Commonwealth ) that would be more like the European Union.

The Free Worlds League government, despite its claims of being a "democracy" (where the term is often used - incorrectly - to imply that the FWL is a republic), is really more a constitutional monarchy or a federal monarchy in terms of actual implementation (with the Captain-General serving as the "monarch").

Quote

A republic is a form of government in which affairs of state are a "public matter" (Latin: res publica), not the private concern of the rulers, in which public offices are consequently appointed or elected rather than privately accommodated (i.e., through inheritance or divine mandate). In modern times, the common definition of a republic is a government which excludes a monarch.

Quote

Constitutional monarchy is a form of government in which a monarch acts as head of state within the guidelines of a constitution, whether it be a written, uncodified, or blended constitution. This form of government differs from absolute monarchy in which an absolute monarch serves as the source of power in the state and is not legally bound by any constitution and has the powers to regulate his or her respective government.

-----

Most constitutional monarchies employ a parliamentary system in which the monarch may have strictly ceremonial duties or may have reserve powers, depending on the constitution. Under most modern constitutional monarchies there is also a prime minister who is the head of government and exercises effective political power. There also exist today several federal constitutional monarchies. In these countries, each subdivision has a distinct government and head of government, but all subdivisions share a monarch who is head of state of the federation as a united whole.

Quote

A federal monarchy is a federation of states with a single monarch as over-all head of the federation, but retaining different monarchs, or a non-monarchical system of government, in the various states joined to the federation.

Edited by Strum Wealh, 25 November 2013 - 04:41 PM.