Odanan, on 18 January 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:
Why not? 16 vs. 10 is balance enough! If it isn't, increase even more the total tonnage of the IS team.
In a perfect world, with a perfect spread of players it would work, it would be fantastic, I WANT TO BELIEVE, but experience tells me that is a paradise that does not exist. Here is why:
I call up an example, the world of warcraft server: Illidan.
http://wow.realmpop....us-illidan.html
Illidan has 13996 Alliance players.
Illidan has 216403 Horde players.
Thats roughly 6% alliance vs 93% horde.
The best servers are split 50/50, but how many new players are going to go alliance on a server where it is now more rare to see alliance players then it is to see rare-spawn world bosses.
Additionally, Illidan is a PVP server, meaning you cannot "toggle off" PVP, you are always attackable by the opposite faction. This makes leveling a horde character a dream, because that 6% of alliance players rarely poses a threat if ever, but makes leveling an alliance character a nightmare, as that 93% of horde players generally likes to hover above low-level areas and "gank noobs", i.e. kill low level players for fun, just to run them off the server, or make them turn horde.
IF, clans are OP enough that it takes a reinforced company just to take down 1 binary, how many players will stay inner sphere?
IF new players starting out as Inner Sphere drop into a game and get picked off from across the map by a triple-ppc omni-mech (clan ppcs weigh less than IS and do nearly as much damage as IS gauss rifles), how long do you think it will take until that player either gives up, or goes clan?
Either you will scare off all your inner sphere players, or you will make all but the most loyal core go clan. That leads to an imbalance, which leads to failing queues, which leads to a dysfunctional game where all that exists are the clans fighting a handful of the same IS pilots who desperately cling to their factions while the bulk of players sit in the back as clans, unable to find queues or fighting among themselves.
Alternatively, if clan tech is available to IS players, how long do you think it will take before people realize their Atlai are easily outmatched by triple-clan UAC20 direwolves? How long do you think it will take before people realize 85 ton stalkers are outgunned and outranged by 75 ton timberwolves? How long do you think it will take before people realize Clan ERPPCs do nearly as much damage as IS gauss rifles?
How long would it take before nearly every single IS mech on the field is replaced by a clan omnimech?
How long would it take before new players in cheap IS mechs are flattened by omnimechs, only to realize the lightest omnimechs alone cost as much as IS heavy mechs?
How long would new players stay when they realize they have a choice of futile grinding to get even a light omnimech, or buying MC.
THIS, is the folly of un-nerfed clan tech. Either it causes an arms race and a virtually impossible grind for new players, or it causes a mass exodus to the clan factions, which also constitutes an arms race to get superior tech.
THIS is why PGI HAS to nerf it. This isn't some personal feud I have with people who want the game to follow TT-values religiously because "whats the point of clans otherwise". This is a genuine concern that those calls to keep clan tech un-nerfed come from a genuine mis-understanding of how a TT game can and cant translate into a real-time action simulator/fps.
But fear not, I have a different solution, one that keeps clan and IS tech distinct, without giving any overt advantages!
Older CW posts from the devs called for certain mechs to be either exclusively available or discounted to specific factions. For example, house kurita, and anyone in it's favour, will find that an Atlas AS7-K is far cheaper to buy, but if someone in favour with only say... the Federated Suns... will find that an Atlas AS7-K is either available at a massively inflated price, or not available at all! Mercenaries will apparently have access to some sort of black market, where they will have to pay full price for mechs, but will have otherwise exclusive hardware available to them as well.
Following that, Clans, which are supposed to be handled as NPC factions like the other successor states, will have certain hardware available to them at either heavily discounted costs, or exclusively, even among the different clans themselves!For example, the Dire Wolf omnimech is produced exclusively by Clan Smoke Jaguar and Clan Wolf. Any other appearance of the direwolf in other clans was supposedly the result of trades, or that equipment being taken as isorla (taken as a prize from a loser in a trial). Following this, we can assume that certain mechs such as the warhawk (an exclusively smoke jaguar design) and the aforementioned direwolf will only be available to their respective producers, or will be available to the other clans at inflated prices, or through trials (which would be totally cool). This tech would also be on the black market for mercenaries, but at inflated prices.
This system of differentiating tech and making it more readily available to specific factions relies on a three things. Meta balance, clan tech "nerf", and numerically equal drops.
A: the overall meta game has to shift significantly. If there were a "Fifth succession war" sans-clan, the Fedcom and cappellans would be the only ones left, because highlanders, victors, and cataphracts with autocannons and ppcs are the kings of the meta. If meta game is balanced (perhaps with cone of fire and heat tweaks as well as tweaks to weapon mechanics such as Mechwarrior 3-styled autocannons rather than single-shot autocannons with front loaded pinpoint damage) then other mechs such as the dragon, and atlas come back from obscurity with a vengance, and sweet sweet brawling becomes viable again. (yes I am a brawler at heart).
B: Clan tech will have to be "nerfed". The word nerf has become a dirty word however, so I will replace it with "fixed".
As it stands, omnimechs have draw backs, but clan weaponry does not. Proposed fixes by paul are interesting, but just the tip of the ice berg. In a perfect world a comprehensive rework of both clan and IS tech (with the above mentions of cone of fire, etc) would be in order, but since we can assume PGI wont do that, lets talk about what we have. We have weapons that are better than IS weapons in every way. The easy solution is to make them do the same damage as IS weapons, but that is boring, so lets give them a different flavour.
Clan lasers could have a slightly longer range, or perhaps a more gradual damage fall-off after their "max range" as opposed to the near instant drop to zero IS laser damage has at its max range. On the flip side, Clan lasers could deal their full damage, but in a longer burn time. This means the pilot has to deal with more heat, as the laser remains active for longer, and has to practice careful aim to keep the laser trained on the target, as well as expose himself from cover for a longer period of time. PPCs on the flip-side, have not been mentioned by paul. I would suggest a rework of ppcs similar to my autocannon idea. Have the ppc deal damage as a stream, rather than a front loaded projectile. In this manner, an IS ppc that deals 10 damage could deal perhaps 8 up front, with each "section" of the stream dealing 1 extra damage until max damage is dealt, while the clan ERPPC would deal its 15 damage as 10 up front, with a longer "stream" dealing up to it's maximum, OR, 7 up front with a stream the same "size" as the IS ppc, but dealing more damage per "section". This would take the emphasis off front loaded pinpoint damage, preserve the effectiveness of each weapon as well as make sure the sheer power of clan weaponry can be exploited only with superb skill, rather than making it a clear cut choice that "clan tech is better".
In the past I also argued mixed weapons, I now argue pure tech because the weight savings of clan weaponry would make IS weapons, even with a nerf, inferior. The best way to balance the weight savings of clan weaponry is with the restrictions of omnimechs. In this manner, IS mechs become more optimized, but on average they carry less fire power, while Clan mechs are less optimized and more "cookie-cutter" but carry more firepower.
C: Numerically, drops would have to remain 12v12, or whatever. CW should have more diverse game modes and perhaps scenario play? (that would also be cool). So pure clan v clan drops would be 5v5 or 10v10, while specific scenarios might have 2 clan mechs with elemental support drop against an equal IS force with vehicle support. Overall, if the above changes are implemented properly, then 10v16 simply becomes superfluous. However, un-nerfed, or un-fixed, if you try to balance clan tech with a 10v16 drop, you are not fixing the problem, you're simply side-stepping it, and that solution wont last forever.
THESE are the elements of game design we have to think about, not a pure "lets leave clan tech OP" or "lets nerf the **** out of clan tech" argument, but a discussion of "how can we make them different from one another, so that while neither techbase has an advantage, they play fundamentally differently and keep the game diverse and interesting.
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