474 replies to this topic

[Burke IV]

Sometimes, just occasionally PGI gets it so right all those suckers that powerdown at first "incomming" just to start up again and let me get that lock back, a veritable tempest of missiles landing on them and now i find out it might actually be hurting more... that just so great.

[luxebo]

@Tesunie Next time break your posts into multiple posts or delete parts of quotes. Simplest thing to do. Also, you don't have to do anything with AC10 Locusts. Shar Wolf was making an example if someone were to say that he prefers slow Locusts over Commandoes, then it's an opinion and not a sudden fact. AC10 Locusts can't exist in the game, yet. Shadow Hawks that go slow aren't very useful imho but it's an opinion, not a fact. I personally think it might be sacrificing far too much for power, but makes it far too slow.

@Victor Morson I think you may be going a bit too far with expressing your thoughts and opinions, but you've gotten into quite a few arguments on this kind of stuff. Just saying, you may want to tone down your expression.

[627]

Ok, if you obey all the rules ( ), especially this one:

Victor Morson, on 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Thou shalt always stay over 88kph

What mechs are left as an LRM boat?

The typical catapult which is considered an LRM boat and one of the lightest LRM boats you normally encounter in PUG play can go 86,4 kph with it's biggest engine so it would be out (by a little bit, though and I get what you want to say with the speed "limit" ).

That leaves the Trebuchet as a missile plattform? Kintaro?
You said it yourself, LRMs are heavy, ammo is heavy and you need big numbers in both to actually do anything.

So... what is your optimized LRM Mech?

Why not post some builds for example?

[JoeKano]

Quote

Thou shalt always stay over 88kph

only one I really disagree with.

[Charons Little Helper]

627, on 13 December 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

That leaves the Trebuchet as a missile plattform? Kintaro?
You said it yourself, LRMs are heavy, ammo is heavy and you need big numbers in both to actually do anything.

Victor has stated that his two favorite LRM mechs are Shadowhawk & Centurian.

[MisterPlanetarian]

OP's point is that LRM's are skirmishing weapons with indirect firesupport capabilities and should only be used in that role. 88kph is a little overkill though, 70+ with or without speedtweak is where i put the foot down.

Stuff like 3x AC2, 2x AC5+1-2PPC's is a much deadlier direct firesupport arrangement in the hands of a talented marksman than those fat LRM Whales boating 60-80 launchers ever will be, Konovings videos or not.


There are few mechs that are better used for LRM boating today and the top three are these:

LRM BATTLEMASTER

LRM CATAPULT

LRM SHADOWHAWK

Almost all other mechs won't do nearly as well for a variety of reasons. To maximize TAG uptime you need 70kph and JumpJets. If you don't have those you are a slow lumbering useless blob of scrapmetal entirely dependant on your pug lance to do your job for you. Putting even a single LRM 5/10/15 on your mechs generally means less ammo for ballistics,smaller ballistic weaponsystems, less heatsinks and energy weapons. All of which will leave a dent in your overall preformance.

Edited by MisterPlanetarian, 13 December 2013 - 06:11 AM.

[Itsalrightwithme]

Nathan Bloodguard, on 12 December 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Well I do have one remaining question at the moment that is on topic. How the heck does one set up a tag for continues fire. I do assume it likely involves out of game programs, but if it is in game, then please tell me.

With the current client you have to use a macro, or jam a nickel coin strategically into your keyboard.

I personally dislike keeping TAG on at all times. In many maps it pretty much advertises your position. I just put TAG on mousebutton 2, and add TAG to any weapon group that includes lasers.

Basically I don't like disclosing that I am carrying TAG too early in the game. Best to catch them unawares.

[Charons Little Helper]

MisterPlanetarian, on 13 December 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

LRM SHADOWHAWK

I think that this would be a better build -http://mwo.smurfy-ne...45f816b306d28ff

1 less launcher - but it adds artemis. More importantly - your build is rather low on ammo.

Edited by Charons Little Helper, 13 December 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[Nathan Bloodguard]

luxebo, on 12 December 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

@Tesunie Next time break your posts into multiple posts or delete parts of quotes. Simplest thing to do. Also, you don't have to do anything with AC10 Locusts. Shar Wolf was making an example if someone were to say that he prefers slow Locusts over Commandoes, then it's an opinion and not a sudden fact. AC10 Locusts can't exist in the game, yet. Shadow Hawks that go slow aren't very useful imho but it's an opinion, not a fact. I personally think it might be sacrificing far too much for power, but makes it far too slow.

@Victor Morson I think you may be going a bit too far with expressing your thoughts and opinions, but you've gotten into quite a few arguments on this kind of stuff. Just saying, you may want to tone down your expression.

Just for your information, it wasn't Shar Wolf that posted about the AC10 Locust being better then the Commando, nor was it even in this thread. Its original post was made by Koniving in this thread http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1 first page, post #6.

Edit: to clarify, it was Victor Morson that did the misquote. I have no idea why or even if it was on purpose, but I do assume it was a complete accident otherwise it would be one heck of a low blow directed at the wrong person... Page 6 of this thread. Post: #117

Edited by Nathan Bloodguard, 13 December 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[Tesunie]

What about the Quickdraw?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...21f4ff6961966a0
TAG, optional. Replace a med laser for TAG if one wishes. BAP, optional. Can be adjusted to fit personal style.
(PS: As of right now, Quickdraw side torsos are actually rather safe. And with that XL, if you lose a side torso, you are dead anyway...)

[Victor Morson]

627, on 13 December 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

What mechs are left as an LRM boat?

The typical catapult which is considered an LRM boat and one of the lightest LRM boats you normally encounter in PUG play can go 86,4 kph with it's biggest engine so it would be out (by a little bit, though and I get what you want to say with the speed "limit" ).

That leaves the Trebuchet as a missile plattform? Kintaro?
You said it yourself, LRMs are heavy, ammo is heavy and you need big numbers in both to actually do anything.

So... what is your optimized LRM Mech?

Why not post some builds for example?

Ranked in order of effectiveness:

Shadow Hawk 2D2 - 55 tons - 1x LRM15, 1x LRM10, 1x LRM5 1x TAG + Artemis & BAP.
Centurion 9D - 50 Tons - 2x LRM15, 1x TAG + Artemis & BAP.
Trebuchet 7M - 50 Tons - 2 LRM15, 1x TAG + Artemis & BAP.
Kintaro-18 - 55 Tons - 2 LRM15, 1x TAG + Artemis & BAP. [ There may be better missile configs for the Kintaro; I don't own one so I'm not positive on it's port layout. ]

Rule exceptions: Battlemaster. In a pug game (I wouldn't use one of these in a weight limited game though), a BattleMaster with LRMs can even be heavy enough to carry those backup weapons and still not break the rules in other ways. Still, you should be moving in the 80s anyway. 2x LRM20 2x LRM5 is a nasty missile setup for one, but I think 2x 15 2x 5 is about optimal.

Battlemaster LRM

[ EDIT: If you're curious why I think the BattleMaster can got a little slower, it's simple: The armor kind of makes up for it. It's only losing a few KPH and won't be able to range mediums anymore, but it should still be able to dominate heavies and up. ]

Honorable Mention: Quickdraw. I think you can make a very effective missile boat out of one, but haven't ever tried. Unusable missile tubes.

The thing you'll notice with all of these are mediums or at most, a very light heavy. I think that you'll be hard pressed to find a good missile boat outside of the 50-60 ton range; heavier starts slowing down a lot, and lighter can't carry enough firepower.

Note: The reason for the staggered launchers on the Shadow Hawk:

• The LRM5 fires as apart of the initial salvo instead of the back-to-back follow up, coming from the chest, helping overwhelm AMS effectively.
  
• Against non-AMS targets you can fire at maximum speed, gaining a lot of DPS out of the 5 & 10; you can hold them for the 15 against AMS.
  
• The tighter groupings from the 5 & 10 perfectly accent the 15.

It's the least traditional one I have, but the jump jets are very nice.

Edited by Victor Morson, 13 December 2013 - 01:37 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Also just saying hi to any thread necromancers reading this after Clan LRMs get in the game, because then half of everything I've said goes straight out the window.

LRM/20s for 6 tons can be considered secondary weapons, for crying out loud! There's literally 35 tonners that are superior to every 'mech I just listed when this happens..

Edited by Victor Morson, 13 December 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[luxebo]

Quickdraw cannot be a missile boat. There are only 3 missile slots on the 4H, and 2 on the 4G, one on the 5K. I personally think that LRMs should get weight lowered to nearly the MW4 Mercs weights in Mekpak. (8 tons LRM20, 6 tons LRM15, 4.5 tons LRM10, 2.5 tons LRM 5). Clanners get really small tonnage LRMs. (LRM20 6 tons, LRM15 4.5 tons, LRM10 3.5 tons, LRM5 2 tons!)

[Victor Morson]

luxebo, on 13 December 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Quickdraw cannot be a missile boat. There are only 3 missile slots on the 4H, and 2 on the 4G, one on the 5K. I personally think that LRMs should get weight lowered to nearly the MW4 Mercs weights in Mekpak. (8 tons LRM20, 6 tons LRM15, 4.5 tons LRM10, 2.5 tons LRM 5). Clanners get really small tonnage LRMs. (LRM20 6 tons, LRM15 4.5 tons, LRM10 3.5 tons, LRM5 2 tons!)

I was going to say that'd still be fine but then I looked at the missile tubing on smurfy's.

Ugh.

Didn't realize that. There's a reason I said I never tried it.

[Charons Little Helper]

luxebo, on 13 December 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

LRMs should get weight lowered to nearly the MW4 Mercs weights in Mekpak. (8 tons LRM20, 6 tons LRM15, 4.5 tons LRM10, 2.5 tons LRM 5). Clanners get really small tonnage LRMs. (LRM20 6 tons, LRM15 4.5 tons, LRM10 3.5 tons, LRM5 2 tons!)

Of note - in MW4 the LRM tonnage was, in practice, lower than that. Each LRM slot came with ammo at that tonnage. (either 120 or 240, I forget) I only remember because I loaded it up a month or two back when I was hankering for some PvE. It both made me long for tanks/choppers/skimmers etc, and appreciate the core engine of MWO. MWO is a very solid core - it just still needs nearly everything else.

[luxebo]

Good point, didn't realize that. I think even with extra tonnage needed for the ammo, it would still be fine.

[Victor Morson]

Charons Little Helper, on 13 December 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

I think that this would be a better build -http://mwo.smurfy-ne...45f816b306d28ff

1 less launcher - but it adds artemis. More importantly - your build is rather low on ammo.

Yep - yours is a definite upgrade.

The biggest downside to your Hawk however is the amount of tonnage you're spending on armoring and mounting that single medium laser; it's not going to turn the tide but a few more tons of ammo might.

Here's what I'm running right now:
Shadow Hawk Skirmisher

The XL300 for 5 less missiles could totally work out well though.

Edited by Victor Morson, 13 December 2013 - 02:37 PM.

[Tesunie]

Victor Morson, on 13 December 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

Honorable Mention: Quickdraw. I think you can make a very effective missile boat out of one, but haven't ever tried. Unusable missile tubes.

Not to be picky, but my LRM based Quickdraw does fairly well. It just launches two waves of missiles, one being 15 and a second wave as 10. Could also be two very quick succession waves of 15 depending upon your loadout even. Or you can add in an LRM 5 into the CT to make it a wave of 19 and a wave of 11-16.

Just because it doesn't fit into an area you like, does not mean it isn't able to still work. Now, the Catapult has more tubes available, so you can send more missiles in one massive wave making it probably a little better overall. But launching in two quick waves isn't too bad either.

Hunchback can be good too from my experience: (Was the first mech I used in the game as a Hunchback 4J (trial), and became the first mech I owned as the Hunchback 4J, 4SP and some other third one.)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...45f8831ba8337dd
Or if one insists on TAG:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4b596e8642a51f0
w/TAG and Artemis even:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...94b9a125a6b5fbc
or http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bcd7c300ca466ad
(Exact placement of ammo and TAG are optional.)
I'm sure one can figure out how to get BAP on if they wished.

For the most part, you will shoot your missiles off in 3 bursts of 10. The slow speed isn't much of a hamper for the design as you can play this in several different ways due to it's weapon placement. You can determine the weapon range you engage at, and is never open to a weak range. I tend to use this mech with the LRMs launching as I approach from range and open the arm, then if I need to I can close in and engage with my Med Lasers. If I need to, and it's too dangerous for close range, I can stay at range with the LRMs. If I come across a bigger LRM mech, I can close the distance (hopefully wisely with cover) and engage inside their minimum range.

The Standard Engine is to keep me going even if I loose a side. I'd rather still be alive with half a mech and still be doing damage, than to be dead already and no longer helping the team. The Lasers are very threatening, but can make the mech run a little hot, but that is where the cooler running LRMs can come in handy. Back up and use LRMs if you can to cool down. You need to engage wisely, and not charge into a target. Look and see what they have. Use terrain to you advantage.

[Victor Morson]

Nathan Bloodguard, on 13 December 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Edit: to clarify, it was Victor Morson that did the misquote. I have no idea why or even if it was on purpose, but I do assume it was a complete accident otherwise it would be one heck of a low blow directed at the wrong person... Page 6 of this thread. Post: #117

At that point I was replying to about 8 people every 15 minutes, so I bet you anything i pasted the wrong quote header. I apologize for any misunderstandings, but it definitely was not intentional.

[Kjudoon]

Nathan Bloodguard, on 12 December 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Well I do have one remaining question at the moment that is on topic. How the heck does one set up a tag for continues fire. I do assume it likely involves out of game programs, but if it is in game, then please tell me.

Joystick slaved to the throttle function.