474 replies to this topic

[Kaijin]

Orbit Rain, on 10 January 2014 - 01:33 AM, said:

This had me wondering about my stats: The LRM20 is further up on the page, and I'm gonna be lazy about stitching it in. I haven't read this entire thread (tl:dr). I will say that this is a good guide, but as there are multiple games within this game (solo-pug, 4-man and 12-man), there are more ways than these commandments lay out, to play something with an LRM launcher on it.

Since stats beyond win/loss and kdr began, I've almost exclusively solo-pugged. I suspect in your 4-mans and 12-mans you've occasionally had someone spotting for you for indirect fire. The IF spots I get are ones I probably shouldn't fire on, but I'll still sometimes lob a salvo to see if I get armor flash. Too, I'll drop LRMs on ridge-lines that may be hiding any enemy mech just to keep their heads down. This accounts for the accuracy discrepancy between your hit percentage stats and mine perhaps.

[Victor Morson]

Kaijin, on 10 January 2014 - 02:12 AM, said:

Since stats beyond win/loss and kdr began, I've almost exclusively solo-pugged. I suspect in your 4-mans and 12-mans you've occasionally had someone spotting for you for indirect fire. The IF spots I get are ones I probably shouldn't fire on, but I'll still sometimes lob a salvo to see if I get armor flash. Too, I'll drop LRMs on ridge-lines that may be hiding any enemy mech just to keep their heads down. This accounts for the accuracy discrepancy between your hit percentage stats and mine perhaps.

Why I don't bother posting stats most of the time, they're not very good indicators.

I mean sure my LRM stats have way higher damage than that, but I also was around for the LRM Apocalypse, so...

[Kaijin]

Victor Morson, on 10 January 2014 - 03:36 AM, said:

Why I don't bother posting stats most of the time, they're not very good indicators.

I mean sure my LRM stats have way higher damage than that, but I also was around for the LRM Apocalypse, so...

I was around for the LRM Apocalypse, but I didn't participate beyond a match or two. LRMs were too stupidly OP and I have standards.

[Tesunie]

Kaijin, on 10 January 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

With the way LRMs are now in MWO, medium mechs are best suited to carry them. From the screens I posted, I do as well with my KTO-18 as I do with my CAT-C1(F). I feel a little guilty giving the other team a 'Phract or a Jag every time I drop in the Cat, but it's my money-maker.

As of this time, there is no weight balancing. When you drop in an Atlas, you could be "giving" the enemy team a Locust with a similar Elo score to you (or maybe not even that). The weight balance you refer to has not been in the game as far as I know since Elo was place into the game with MM2.0 (Elo).

[Tesunie]

Kaijin, on 10 January 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

I was around for the LRM Apocalypse, but I didn't participate beyond a match or two. LRMs were too stupidly OP and I have standards.

I was around for the LRM Apocalypse too, in a Jagermech... Back when it was nothing but a head hitbox...

[NRP]

I've never played a Medium LRM boat. The idea never even occurred to me, mainly because I don't like LRMs and I generally hate Mediums.

Stalkers, on the other hand, remind me of a Tyrannosaur stomping through the valley of death. This amuses me, especially after a few glasses of 12 year old Scotch.

[Orbit Rain]

I'm reading excuses. I too noticed the higher hit %, but was looking first and primarily at the number of matches stat, e.g.





...but the (not now) subtle point is that....no Kaijin, you *are* a rank newb, at least in my eyes...and perhaps my previous post was just me displaying my epeen...I easily have an order of magnitude greater amount of experience than you have with LRM's... the fact that you don't group in fours or twelves further defines your lack of expertise, the level of knowledge and experience you can impart is currently very limited...I'm sorry (not really)...but a beginner...you *are*. I'm glad I haven't read the entirety of this thread...

You asked for it with the "I have standards" ad hominem, so let me cut off the crying and more excuses and the by saying the number of matches I've used it as a splat or streak cat number less than 10.



My advice for quite a while has been, if you want to learn *how* to LRM, use a maxed-out 6LRM5 A1, and pug with it. You will learn situational awareness and target selection, or you will die. fwiw, I've dropped exactly twice in 12-mans in my 6LRM5 A1. No idea what the 4Man/pug ratio is, but it's a fun as hell mech, not for chain fire trolling, but for the CT hitting, fast-firing, fast flying LRM30 that it is.

I agree with Victor that stats are misleading, and (really) I threw mine up there to provide some credibility behind me saying that there *are* other ways to play an LRM boat than what Victor has written. I'm reminded of Lao Tzu: "those who know don't talk, those who talk don't know"

Show your stats if they don't mean anything Victor, just the number of matches you've used the LRM launchers...so people can at least gauge how much you've played them...or don't.

[wanderer]

Quinton, on 09 January 2014 - 08:34 PM, said:

I feel one of the commandments really should be : Thous shalt always carry a secondary weapon.

I run a light mech quite often and one of the first things i do in nearly every battle is locate the missile boat, wait for it to seperate itself from the pack, and run it down. I've killed literally dozens of catapults, jaegers, awesomes, etc that ran LRM's only and no SRM's or even 1 streak launcher. Usually they end up desperately trying to run back to their team, or stuck in a corner staring at me while i chew them apart.

This is quite true. An LRM carrier without a secondary battery is a kill-me sign. Two-three medium lasers (or should you *gasp* have spare missile hardpoints, Streaks) can help discourage many new "friends" and add a little targeted firepower to your arsenal.

Wading into a target and saving yourself that last missile salvo by burning out their core with your backup guns is nice, too. You need to -live- long enough to use that ammo, after all.

And as far as assault-class LRM carriers...they're wunderbar for direct-fire LRM fighting. Point at target, TAG paint at 750, and just keep going forward while firing and trust in your armor, if you're 85+. A pair of Artemis IV'd LRM-15's delivers plentiful pummeling (especially on designs that stream missiles like the Atlas-RS or Stalker.) Just alternate launches, then hold down the trigger while putting a large laser or PPC downrange for punctuation marks. Don't have a direct-fire target? Start lobbing LRMs. Someone will come looking. Hug terrain when traveling so you've got something to put your back to when the lights show up, and to lean against if someone tries counter-battery fire. Awesomes, despite the designation are not supergreat LRM carriers, since the Stalker grossly outclasses it.

Link your TAG to every fire option you have. Give it one of it's own if you like.

Edited by wanderer, 10 January 2014 - 11:34 AM.

[Tesunie]

Orbit Rain, on 10 January 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

...but the (not now) subtle point is that....no Kaijin, you *are* a rank newb, at least in my eyes...and perhaps my previous post was just me displaying my epeen...I easily have an order of magnitude greater amount of experience than you have with LRM's...

You may have more experience, but that shouldn't invalidate what he has to say...



Or what I have said either...
(Hum. All my LRM accuracies are over 30%... didn't see that one coming. Thought it was a little lower than that. )

[Kaijin]

While I didn't consider your first post to be evidence of waving it around, you nailed it with the second one, Orbit Rain. I won't dignify the rest of your diatribe with a response.

[Chocolater]

NRP, on 10 January 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

I've never played a Medium LRM boat. The idea never even occurred to me, mainly because I don't like LRMs and I generally hate Mediums.

Stalkers, on the other hand, remind me of a Tyrannosaur stomping through the valley of death. This amuses me, especially after a few glasses of 12 year old Scotch.

^^^^ Seems like I am not the only one that enjoys a nice drink whilst playing once in awhile.

[Orbit Rain]

Kaijin, on 10 January 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

While I didn't consider your first post to be evidence of waving it around, you nailed it with the second one, Orbit Rain. I won't dignify the rest of your diatribe with a response.

Of course, I understand *you* have standards, and I appreciate your silence. Thank you! ; D

FWIW, I didn't look at the name (yours apparently) of whoever I quoted with the stats when I made the first post of mine. You then went on the defensive about accuracy, wasting missiles, making spotting excuses, then went on further to subtly put me down with your "I have standards" comment. What did you expect my response would be? ; ) ...am I wrong? Maybe I'm just looking for a fight....come on, feed this troll!

When I got into the swing with my first MWO clan, someone said to me "I wrote the book on LRM's" (as someone also claimed to be a "builds master" - but I digress) The truth was then, and is now, that the book is still being written, and is still changing as balancing continues to change. Way back then, I knew the guy was FOS...you can't pilot for a mech or a weapon system for a month after closed beta and convince me that you're a master (in its true meaning, not an XP earned definition) at it. So I'm leery of those claiming such a title...or a beginner over-stating their expertise...then getting pissy when called on it.

Don't listen to me though, I'm just waving my epeen again, no one ever stops by to play with me and my crappy LRM builds.

[Wildstreak]

Kaijin, on 10 January 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

In general, I figure LRMs, in their present nerfed state, on any of the assault mechs we have at our disposal is a bad idea. They can boat them -sure, but the assaults we have are better suited as energy and/or ballistic platforms, or SRMs, if they ever get fixed so they work.

Being the most heavily armored, assaults are the 'tanks' in the team. But all that armor is going to waste if they're sitting at the back lobbing missiles, while their less armored teammates are getting chewed up at the front by proper assault mechs.

With the way LRMs are now in MWO, medium mechs are best suited to carry them. From the screens I posted, I do as well with my KTO-18 as I do with my CAT-C1(F). I feel a little guilty giving the other team a 'Phract or a Jag every time I drop in the Cat, but it's my money-maker.

wanderer, on 10 January 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

This is quite true. An LRM carrier without a secondary battery is a kill-me sign. Two-three medium lasers (or should you *gasp* have spare missile hardpoints, Streaks) can help discourage many new "friends" and add a little targeted firepower to your arsenal.

Wading into a target and saving yourself that last missile salvo by burning out their core with your backup guns is nice, too. You need to -live- long enough to use that ammo, after all.

And as far as assault-class LRM carriers...they're wunderbar for direct-fire LRM fighting. Point at target, TAG paint at 750, and just keep going forward while firing and trust in your armor, if you're 85+. A pair of Artemis IV'd LRM-15's delivers plentiful pummeling (especially on designs that stream missiles like the Atlas-RS or Stalker.) Just alternate launches, then hold down the trigger while putting a large laser or PPC downrange for punctuation marks. Don't have a direct-fire target? Start lobbing LRMs. Someone will come looking. Hug terrain when traveling so you've got something to put your back to when the lights show up, and to lean against if someone tries counter-battery fire. Awesomes, despite the designation are not supergreat LRM carriers, since the Stalker grossly outclasses it.

Link your TAG to every fire option you have. Give it one of it's own if you like.

Secondary weapons depend on what you are driving.

A Hunchback 4J like mine, sure, 2-4 MLs are good for fighting back. Not on something like an Awesome such as the 8R. I have driven both and there is a difference between them.

AWS-8R with 4LRM15 and 3ML, slower to turn and maneuver so dealing with those close in harassers is harder. I would actually say now an 8R LRM boat should be 2LRM15 only, the rest energy and close range missile. Proof is also in how I ran an 8T, 2LRM15 and 2LL, was more effective than the 8R with twice the launchers and all this was before ghost heat. A Medium can get away with nothing but 2-4 MLs for close defense because it can maneuver better than an Assault.

Assaults using LRMs should only have pairs and overall be designed more for multi-range fighting.

[Varik Ronain]

The commandments you do not always have to follow to be effective....

1. Thou shalt always carry Targeting Acquisition Gear (TAG) (I always use it on my C4, but it has never stopped me from doing just fine with my A1 with a mix of BAP and UAV

2. Thou shalt never defy Ghost Heat (I break this one every time with my C4 cat with 3 LRM 15s) The heat is managable! Anything more than that is much harder to keep a steady rain of fire.

3. Thou shalt always stay over 88kph (I have broken this one over 1,500 times!) He put this speed there because of his rabid love of medium mechs. In my opinion you 69.9 KPH is the minimum but faster is preferable.

And one he should have added is thou shall always use improved UAV as another way of beating massive ECM bubbles!

Yes I get it I am still a "newb" to many veterans, but I have a lot of matches under my belt as a catapult pilot.




I average 500-600 damage with a tagless, slower than 88kph LRM mech that can defend itself from LRM hunting lights!



In short the Catapult is a great LRM mech even if victor thinks his prized mediums are far better. The A1 lets you have a nasty surprise of 4 streak launchers for pesky lights while still sporting 2 LRM 15 racks.

[Blacke]

Victor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Exactly why most assaults make a poor LRM boat. The only passable assault LRM 'mech at present is the Battlemaster.

My Highlander 732 and 733 missile boats often score 800 - 1200 damage and a couple of times with the 733 I have scored over 2000 damage in a match with match scores >190.

I like the Battlemaster but it is not the only effective assault missile boat. I like my Stalker missile boats as well but they are more on par with Cats (except much slower but more staying power when swarmed by lights).

[Tesunie]

Varik Ronain, on 13 January 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

In short the Catapult is a great LRM mech even if victor thinks his prized mediums are far better. The A1 lets you have a nasty surprise of 4 streak launchers for pesky lights while still sporting 2 LRM 15 racks.

Out of everything else, this. So this.

Just because one takes LRMs does not mean one much fill all missile hardpoints with LRMs. I think you just sparked a new Battlemaster concept for me. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d83edc6e97ad3eb

Maybe even change my old Stalker too? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e8eff7cabaca2db

SSRMs enough to at least deter, with enough lasers to still do some good direct damage if I'm backed into a corner or out of ammo for the LRM mechs... (These two are just concepts at this time.)


This also gave me something to do with my Dragon, as I wasn't liking it's old configuration as much: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...97a9f01e57ba7ef

[Kjudoon]

NRP, on 10 January 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

I've never played a Medium LRM boat. The idea never even occurred to me, mainly because I don't like LRMs and I generally hate Mediums.

Stalkers, on the other hand, remind me of a Tyrannosaur stomping through the valley of death. This amuses me, especially after a few glasses of 12 year old Scotch.

mmmmmm... Medium LRM mech.... very tasty things to run. I do very very well with a KTO and SDH missile boats.

[travelbug]

Blacke, on 13 January 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

My Highlander 732 and 733 missile boats often score 800 - 1200 damage and a couple of times with the 733 I have scored over 2000 damage in a match with match scores >190.

I like the Battlemaster but it is not the only effective assault missile boat. I like my Stalker missile boats as well but they are more on par with Cats (except much slower but more staying power when swarmed by lights).

would you care to share you hgn builds?

[Will HellFire]

I hope to cockpit you all, you filthy missile lovers.

[MetalBacon]

I've seen folks hold tags on targets when said targets get behind cover. Does tag penetrate solid matter? O.o