7768 replies to this topic

[Darkblood]

Here comes the WALL OF TEXT (seriously though, no in depth feedback can be given with SMS length messages)


The beauty of the F2P model is the ability to remove the upper cap on how much your fans can spend. In fact that´s needed, otherwise you´ll never be able to support the structure needed for thousands of people playing for free. That in fact justifies aberrations like the U$500 golden bytes (they took almost zero time to develop, so selling even ten of those will already be a profit, they will probably sell more than that). In F2P games, the 1% "richer" (as in willing to spend) will pay for 80% of the game, the next 19% (that´s most of us founders/phoenix-ers) pays for another 15% and rest of the players are casual spenders or simply play for free (very approximate numbers). It´s the beauty of the exponential.

The model has caveats though. First and foremost: you need full servers otherwise your whales will not have anyone to fight and the game dies. That´s essentially a marketing effort, you need to convince people to play your game. On one side, the game is free, which is a big point, but at the same time it is THE POINT. You lose that and your screwed. If free players feel they are just targets for people really playing the game (as in having access to everything cool and powerful in the game), they will simply leave. And the line between F2P and pay-to-win is very blurry and tenuous.

Take the phoenix package. All the free players out there are having to deal with Battlemasters since October. This Mech is not OP, but it is a strong contestant and it was hidden behind a U$80 wall. And they had to deal with the Shadowhawks for a while. F2Players are at an strategical disadvantage while that lasts, and some of them will drop out. It´s a delicate game of squeezing more money out of the game while squeezing few players out of the game. Now, how long will we have to deal with potentially OP (at least one of all those Mechs will be too good) while we get a single clanner out per month (probably lights first)? What about this "exclusive module" the golden boys will get?

Same thing with the grind. It´s ok to charge for expeditiousness. But you make the free path to glory too slow and people will simply drop. I´ve convinced at least 6 friends of mine to try (all TT battletech fans and some that played MW4 for years) and none stayed. They stayed all through the "cadet bonus", bought a first Mech, and played it for a month... that´s it. Most didn´t buy a second, and all of them told me the grind was to blame (they could barely foresee the day they would get a second one and have the money to outfit it).

The point PGI is missing here is that you need micro-transactions too. It´s nice to have packages AS A DISCOUNT, but you need to be able to just come and buy the Mech you want, outside the packages. That allows for "the little guy" to spend a U$5 or a U$10 now and then, and keep playing, with the good stuff. To spend that same money to get a paint on you only good Mech does not keep people in game. All the people wanting the Mad Cat will have to either spend U$210 or wait for a looooong time (and face The Grind for even more expensive Clan tech).

Also, the timing was damn bad, from a PR point of view. They are way late with most of the features, and now they want more money for something to be delivered in July next year. What reason does anybody sane has to buy this NOW? Consider that you can just wait till the very last second and buy it, when you already know the details of the packages and the state of the game. I´ll bet that most of their sales will happen by then, if at all (I for one, I´m not buying this unless I have CW by then). Releasing it at the very moment everyone is doubting your capabilities to deliver is very bad PR and even if you get some money now, you are loosing much more in terms of player dissatisfaction.

[Jemdeamon]

Ariana Rifkin, on 17 December 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

I wonder if we (The Community) had enough money to buy the rights to MechWarrior before all of this. This really bites. It's so depressing that this franchise is just a shadow of what it could be. Maybe I'm just feeling over entitled for something that has been a part of my life for 19 years.

Sadly I that has been tired. I do believe it was the #savemwo movement. Not sure what happened to them but i know that they disappeared pretty quick.

[Jemdeamon]

Darkblood, on 17 December 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Also, the timing was damn bad, from a PR point of view. They are way late with most of the features, and now they want more money for something to be delivered in July next year. What reason does anybody sane has to buy this NOW? Consider that you can just wait till the very last second and buy it, when you already know the details of the packages and the state of the game. I´ll bet that most of their sales will happen by then, if at all (I for one, I´m not buying this unless I have CW by then). Releasing it at the very moment everyone is doubting your capabilities to deliver is very bad PR and even if you get some money now, you are loosing much more in terms of player dissatisfaction.

I couldnt agree more.

[CDLord HHGD]

I will continue to have faith in this game and PGI. I plan to buy the full $240 Clan package in January. I will not purchase the gold mechs though, I will ignore them instead of getting my panties in a wad. I love the art and I love this game and I will continue to support it as I am able. I know I am not the only one.

Yes, I want to see Community Warfare too! I am less enthused about UI2.0, but that's probably because I am finally used to the current UI and UI2.0 looks totally different. That means new frustrations as I learn the new system. CW is difficult because they gotta give us what we want while still keeping with the lore. The alternative is a Trek-esq franchise reboot and as a Trekkie, I hate the new movies. As a movie goer, they are ok, but from a lore perspective, they are horrid. Same goes for the Transformers too. Good movies, but horrid lore.

@ Russ -- Thank you for taking the time to do some damage control. I liked a few posts in this thread because I thought they were witty and intelligent. I liked very few posts, but I hit the button on posts from both sides of the isle. Timetables are important and while I wasn't enthused about the ones you listed, I am glad to see them still coming. You still have my support and faith for now.

@ the community -- I'd like to think our anger stems from a passion about this game and this genre. I get that. I also work for a large corporation that would sooner spit me out as give me a raise, even with the best review possible this last year. It's about profits and screaming that the money is cut off is like cutting off our own noses to spite our faces. I'm not advocating running to PGI and giving them a blank check (though I would if I could), or even running out and buying the current package. Just sit back, throw back a shot, and go to bed. In a month or two when some of those deadlines have been met (hopefully), take another look at the Clan package. You might be significantly happier than you are now.

In conclusion, this is just a game. FotM comes in many forms, and this time it is a feeling of indignation from PGI/IGP over a whole host of issues, from 3PV to the audacity of golden mechs. You have to make your own choices but reacting to the FotM is a knee jerk reaction. Call me a fan boy, a white knight, I don't care. Quote every sentence in this post and dissect it and argue points against it, again, I don't care. I'm not going to get caught up in a ***-for-tat flame war. I'm going to go drop and play the best damn big stompy robot game I've seen in a decade (read ever because this is the first time I've had a rig that could reliably play one).

[anonymous161]

cdlord your blind love for pgi even though they have pretty much ruined the franchise what made it so great and inspiring sickens me.

[MeatForBrains]

Fitzbattleaxe, on 13 December 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

I am now actively hoping that this game fails so that the franchise can be picked up by a developer who will go ahead and make the single player game that we all actually wanted and got all excited for when we saw that first trailer back in '09.

Maybe we'll get lucky and BETHESDA will pick it up. They did wonders for Fallout.

Holy {Scrap}, 336 pages of:

PGI DO YOUR JOB AND STOP CHEATING US@#$

Well deserved.

[evillittlestew]

hey everyone i though i would do a video on my thoughts on all this {Scrap} that PGI have caused and a few ideas that i think would make this game so much better and gain back the trust of all of us!

[Alek Ituin]

MeatForBrains, on 17 December 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Maybe we'll get lucky and BETHESDA will pick it up. They did wonders for Fallout.

Holy {Scrap}, 336 pages of:

PGI DO YOUR JOB AND STOP CHEATING US@#$

Well deserved.

Open world Mechwarrior.

Yes.

[Razorb0iz]

I felt the Phoenix package was alright, but this newest Clan Invasion package pricing is getting way out of hand. Seriously? $240 for 8 Mechs? That can buy me like 3 or 4 good games out there.

And $500 for a Mech that's plated in Gold?! Seriously?

This game is becoming more and more like those Pay-To-Win games. Hell, why not sell a Nuclear Missile launcher for $100,000?

I'm still gonna buy the $240 Masakari package after saying all this, cuz I love my Clan mechs.

But there'd better be some nice pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow for the community instead of empty promises all the time.

Just sayin'.

[Tazzie]

Sad...
As you can see on the left, I have been a supporter of this game from the beginning. I personally just can't do it anymore though.
To avoid the wall of text as it has all been said before by others, I will just bullet point some of my personal feelings.

• Too many past broken promises. I simply can't believe anything at this point
  
• No CW which is one of the main reasons I bought-in in the first place like I did
  
• No other additions to core gameplay for ages (maps are always good, but not enough by themselves)
  
• Lack of purchase options for the clans - I am not interested in waiting 7 months for the clan mechs then grinding out all of them, especially when I'm only interested in a few of them
  
• No information on how clans will work, how CW will work, what these special modules are, when the clan mechs will be available after the package sale ends etc - yet selling the clan mechs, seemingly preying on people's love for the IP

I will simply wait and see how things develop from here. I will only believe progress when I see it, and will buy back into the game if I still have interest in playing when CW comes out almost a year from now.

Until then: N.O.P.E.

[Kelvin Casing]

Well, personally I'm going to end with this:

[Colonel Jaime Wolf]

I'd rather send 500 bucks to help a few survivors. oh, done that. eat it PGI


this is going somewhere else...

Edited by Colonel Jaime Wolf, 17 December 2013 - 07:11 AM.

[EvilDante]

PGI your prices are high and your ability to deliver is low. How many players to you intend to lose with this overrated Clans pack, considering that you've kept delaying Community Warfare and by looking at the state of development you won't have it fully functional next year.

I recommend introducing smaller packs for the Clan mechs - I'd buy a Mad Cat but not at that price with 21 other chassis that I barely intend to play or level up.

[Aleksanteri Bekker]

focuspark, on 16 December 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Dude your math skills suck. $240 for 24 mechs is $10 per mech. There're no if and or buts about about it. The fact that you don't want some of those mechs is tangential.

Some of you are dense.



You're in the supermarket, and you see this sign/poster/whatever for orange juice.
Hmm, you like orange juice. You'd really like to get some orange juice.
You take the orange juice to checkout.

Cashier: "Sorry sir, you're not able to buy only orange juice."

You: "Why not?"

Cashier: "Well, the orange juice is in the 5th tier of our LOL package. You'll need to buy 1 gallon of milk, 1 dozen eggs, 1 bag of dog food, 1 can of decaf coffee, and 1 box of tampons. Then you can get the orange juice."

You: "What the hell sense does that make? I'm perfectly happy to pay you the $3 for orange juice. I don't want milk, eggs, dog food, decaf coffee, or tampons. What the hell! How much is the package then?"

Cashier: "The package is $30 sir, for the Orange Juice tier."

You: "So I either have to pay $30 for this carton of Orange Juice which is only worth $3, or you won't sell me orange juice at all?"

Cashier: "That is correct sir. It comes out to $5 per item."

You: "Sure, a purely numerical stat, but considering I DO NOT WANT 5 of the 6 items, it really comes down to $30 for Orange Juice. That's insanely idiotic. A scam if I ever saw one. Just let me buy the Orange Juice for $5 then, I don't care."

Cashier: "Sorry sir, you can only purchase orange juice by purchasing the Orange Juice tier of the LOL package. However if you wait 9-10 months we will start having coupons that store members can use so you can get a free carton of orange juice."

You: "Rot in hell..."

You walk out of the store and shop somewhere else.


===========

I can't believe some of you people need it painted out for you.

Obviously $30 in the example = $xxx of the clanpack.
Obviously $5 = "$10 per mech" of the clanpack
Obviously 'coupons' = c-bills.

God, some of you people are dense.

Edited by Aleksanteri Bekker, 17 December 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[FerretGR]

Razorb0iz, on 17 December 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

I felt the Phoenix package was alright, but this newest Clan Invasion package pricing is getting way out of hand. Seriously? $240 for 8 Mechs? That can buy me like 3 or 4 good games out there...

I'm still gonna buy the $240 Masakari package after saying all this, cuz I love my Clan mechs.

I've said in earlier posts that folks like me are the problem. People who buy these packages (ie. the Phoenix package) justify in the minds of PGI/IGP their pricing model. People who buy the Clan packages are exacerbating this. You see the issue the rest of us see, and you're still going to blow that much money on this game? You understand that the $240 could get you 4 AAA titles, and you're still going to get the mechs instead? I mean, far be it for me to criticize someone's priorities or financial choices, but you're blowing my mind, dude. As long as people like you do what you're doing, PGI/IGP will not change.

[anonymous161]

500 dollar gold mech that will just be shot at by team mates can buy you a ps4 and a great game.

[Wolf Clearwater]

evillittlestew, on 17 December 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

hey everyone i though i would do a video on my thoughts on all this {Scrap} that PGI have caused and a few ideas that i think would make this game so much better and gain back the trust of all of us!

In your video you say that PGI should have daily updates on what is being accomplished. While I too am disappointed in the progress, I think a daily update is a little too ambitious, and would be really hard to pull off. I would LOVE to see bi-weekly updates (more than patch notes) with substance to them. Perhaps state of the game updates between patch days?
Anyway, PGI really needs to rethink the micro transaction part of F2P. Mechs for a few dollars instead of $15-45 would likely bring in way more money in general.

N.O.P.E.

Edited by Wolf87535, 17 December 2013 - 07:10 AM.

[BigBadBug]

A letter to Russ: [LONG POST WARNING]

As a person with Production experience in the gaming industry, let's talk a moment.

Let's start with he UI.

For BETA, what you produced was good enough, but your team should have been tasked with getting UI 2.0 ready for launch - without exception. Surely your scope and design documents outlined what was necessary to produce this, and your team was built so these elements could be completed. When it looked like you weren't going to make it, why didn't your technical director step up and let you know how behind they were, and the appropriate resources allocated to ensure they weren't? 18 "engineers" should have been plenty to write the code to support the new UI integration, leaving patching to further bring elements online. The framework is already there, you're showing that with the current UI, so enhancing the functionality and "glitz" of it could have been an issue left to gradual patching. If you can't pull from your current 18 to ensure that UI 2.0 is completed BEFORE Feb as a sign of good faith, then my suggestion is to pull in some new talent to ensure it is. Don't worry, it won't be temporary, because once UI 2.0 is launched, they'll be needed to support ongoing development and integration. At least the UI would be up and your user base would have a visual indicator of progress. What we have now, is a situation where your community feels slighted because you're focusing too much on the form and too little on the function.

Next is CW.

One of, if not the most important feature of any online multiplayer shooter-based game, is the ability for teams of people to organize private matches. Afterall, organized team warfare is the backbone to ensuring the longevity of your product. The more resources people invest in playing your game, the longer they'll play to ensure they get a return. The biggest mistake any multiplayer game company can make is to ignore the community aspect in their product and delay its integration. You end up stalling out the user experience, people lose faith in the developer, and what happens next is you lose customers. With so many outlets now for people to air their grievances, that can spell disaster for a company struggling to bring in new money. Some of your customers belong to enormous guilds, with hundreds of paying players looking for the next great game. Ignoring them is worse than ******* them off. At least if you give them what they're after, even broken, they'll keep playing in the hopes you'll fix it. Ignoring them however, and leaving out the most essential of tools, breaks the trust and pushes them away. Who wants to invest in a product that shows no sign of ever being what they're after? Promises are worth what it cost to make them...nothing.

Communications.

To say that PGI has been on top of keeping the community happy is a stretch. Sure you put out command chair and "Ask the Dev" posts, but when you consistently "backorder" key features that your community is screaming for - or worse, are consistently a "Johnny come lately" with information about the game's direction and apologies - you're being downright ignorant to your customers.

Further to communications, namely in-game, where's the support? Every video game is about the "experience", that's what makes good games great. MWO is missing the immersion of being in a 20-100 tonne walking tank. Sure you have Bitching Betty, and nice visuals, but where's the radio chatter? You didn't even bother to implement keybound commands that played when selected. This at least would have created some level of an immersive environment that would distract from no integrated voice communication ability.

So where do we go?

New mechs be damned right now. UI 2.0 should be the #1 priority. You say it's a bottleneck, ok, then why are we seeing you sell mechs that won't make an appearance until June, now? As a project manager I would have the design team tasked with ensuring the new UI is visually perfect, while my engineers are tasked with having the initial required features working, and short-mile the remaining features to get them operations ASAP. The UI is afterall the doorway into the universe you're creating, and the lynchpin to holding every other feature together. This needs to be out in January, not Feb.

Next is CW. Surely your team understood how important this feature was, and you had a team integrating the CW features this whole time. What can be launched now with the new UI and what order can you bring the remaining features online? If your current team isn't capable, I would be migrating a few people over to boost development now from your current team, and hire more people to support them ASAP. Your reputation as at stake here, and as much as you feel you're handling things, your community says otherwise, and they're spending/not spending based on your actions, not words.

Bottom Line.

Your credibility and that of your company is in question. You've missed all the deadlines you've set out for yourselves thus far, on all of the items your community has stated are vital for your success. You consistently say it's "just around the corner" but never state which corner that is, or how long it'll take to reach it. You give false dates, and inflate expectations. It won't end until you start delivering, and asking for more time isn't a realistic direction to travel unless you can guarantee you'll get enough new people to replace those that will walk now.

This is my IP. I've been playing it for almost 30 years. There are many like me here, and watching from a distance. You're not being fair to me, nor are you being fair to the franchise in the way you're handling this. You asked us for money to support you, and we gave it without hesitation. You asked again, and we gave again without hesitation. Now we're asking, and we're only asking for what you've already promised. Asking a 3rd time without even fully providing what you've promised the first 2 times is a bit arrogant and ignorant don't you think?

Our patience has worn out, and we don't trust you anymore. Show us we can trust you again and all will be forgiven...we'll prove it through giving you more money, but you need to show us first.

If you want to talk further, I'm available, just ask.

- Bug Out -

Edited by BigBadBug, 17 December 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[Shadowglade]

Darth Bane001, on 17 December 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

500 dollar gold mech that will just be shot at by team mates can buy you a ps4 and a great game.

I'm pretty sure that killing a team member because they spent money on the game would qualify for a very long vacation from the game (bans)

[focuspark]

Aleksanteri Bekker, on 17 December 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Some of you are dense.



You're in the supermarket, and you see this sign/poster/whatever for orange juice.
Hmm, you like orange juice. You'd really like to get some orange juice.
You take the orange juice to checkout.

Cashier: "Sorry sir, you're not able to buy only orange juice."

You: "Why not?"

Cashier: "Well, the orange juice is in the 5th tier of our LOL package. You'll need to buy 1 gallon of milk, 1 dozen eggs, 1 bag of dog food, 1 can of decaf coffee, and 1 box of tampons. Then you can get the orange juice."

You: "What the hell sense does that make? I'm perfectly happy to pay you the $3 for orange juice. I don't want milk, eggs, dog food, decaf coffee, or tampons. What the hell! How much is the package then?"

Cashier: "The package is $30 sir, for the Orange Juice tier."

You: "So I either have to pay $30 for this carton of Orange Juice which is only worth $3, or you won't sell me orange juice at all?"

Cashier: "That is correct sir. It comes out to $5 per item."

You: "Sure, a purely numerical stat, but considering I DO NOT WANT 5 of the 6 items, it really comes down to $30 for Orange Juice. That's insanely idiotic. A scam if I ever saw one. Just let me buy the Orange Juice for $5 then, I don't care."

Cashier: "Sorry sir, you can only purchase orange juice by purchasing the Orange Juice tier of the LOL package. However if you wait 9-10 months we will start having coupons that store members can use so you can get a free carton of orange juice."

You: "Rot in hell..."

You walk out of the store and shop somewhere else.


===========

I can't believe some of you people need it painted out for you.

Obviously $30 in the example = $xxx of the clanpack.
Obviously $5 = "$10 per mech" of the clanpack
Obviously 'coupons' = c-bills.

God, some of you people are dense.

No I got what you were saying, and I said you are wrong. The maths are 21 mechs for US$210, that's $10 per mech no matter how you slice it. If you want the 'mechs ala cart, then be a good little boy and wait until they are for sale individually. You'll even be able to pick them up for US$0 (+ C-bills).

Darth Bane001, on 17 December 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

500 dollar gold mech that will just be shot at by team mates can buy you a ps4 and a great game.

Why? Because somebody dared to support they game they love? Oh for shame!