1978 replies to this topic

[Flying Judgement]

Ready your PPC Gauss Rifle AC5s and 10s
clans cant change armor Values nor engine size XD...
sniper warrior online is approaching easy target practice from june 17th.

apart from this i like the ideas they are great they need to be nerfed a bit but now im not to sure i want the Adder any more :\

[Felbombling]

My feedback would be to embrace a concept for Clan weapons that deemphasises their TT range advantages and push them in the opposite direction. The Clans should be brutal, aggressive close combat specialists, and their weaponry should reflect that. They get weight and critical slot savings, as well as damage bonuses, over the Inner Sphere. There really is no need to give them a range advantage, as well. They seem more gladiatorial as a society to me, at any rate, so balance them through range and recycle/reload time disadvantages.

[Deathlike]

So, people agree to "ghost tonnage"?

I guess, some people will like embracing the "79 ton" Madcat Prime design.

Only Paul is cunning enough to allow weak armor stock mech stats to invalidate their role in combat. I will have fun shooting the Uller aka Lolcust v2 on the field if/when that day comes.

Edited by Deathlike, 15 December 2013 - 12:13 AM.

[Mr 144]

Corbon Zackery, on 14 December 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

Like I said if you don't change the weight, tons and critical slots you have 35 ton Pumas running around doing 50.40 damage in a A configuration.

That's stock unmodified I bought the A configuration hardpoints have a nice day. Goodbye 100 ton Atlas in about 3 shots with a tag laser.

That's a total unbalance!!!!

And I LOVE this....it's a "concept" thread, so there's obviously a ton of points that need re-working or scraping all together. That being said, the concept build you posted is spot-on where I'd like to see the game going. The inclusion of builds like this make weight limits fun. Devoting 35 tons to stricly poor indirect fire in a chassis the speed of a medium, with the armor below a Jenner, meaning it had better not have to use the 2 small pulse's (i'd ditch entirely for ammo and embrace my "role") brings alternate lifestyle into the weight brackets. Lights should not HAVE TO run max speed. That 2xLRM20 support from 35 tons, means I have room in my weight limit to not worry about token fire support from heavier chassis.

Given Ghost heat...this can be taken further....2xAdder "A"s (70 tons total)....bringing 4xLRM20's (88dmg teamwork volley) ,which unlike an assault boating 4x20's CAN fire full teamworked volleys, creates room for running a step higher on heavies/assaults in the drop. I see nothing in your example but creating more roles and playstyles for players,

Edited by Mr 144, 15 December 2013 - 12:25 AM.

[Odanan]

OK, I agree with much of what you said, Paul. Clans are OP, Clans weapons are originally much better than the IS in everything.

But, instead of trying to balance the systems (which, BTW, you were not able in your post - Clan weapons are still much better), why not rewind the timeline some years and keep the Clan tech as in canon and restrict the battles in IS-only and Clan-only? Until you reach the "Clan Invasion" event, you will have figured out how to make Clan vs. IS battles. (and if you care, the solution is making 10 Clans mechs vs. 16 IS mechs battles). Would you mind reviewing the whole approach?

I liked the ominipod swapping system, but by locking the engine, heatsinks, armor, etc, you are not necessarily making the Clan mechs "balanced" with IS because some Clan mechs are very optimized, with full armor, great speed and good heat dissipation (hello Mad Cat).

One more thing: please tell us how the Target Computer will work.

PS: I can see you are trying hard but, as proposed, this design perspective doesn't make happy anyone: not the people who hoped Clan tech would be "balanced" nor the people who wanted the Clan tech to be unchanged. As I see, Clans are still OP, just a little lest OP.

PPS: Heat is not the solution of anything - heat is the issue.

[Alik Kerensky]

StandingCow, on 14 December 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Seems to me like he totally missed the point of why people are angry. We don't care that the clans are here... we care about the grab deal so close to the last pack of mechs when basic things that have been promised as "right around the corner" multiple times STILL aren't out.

How about you wait to introduce this until UI 2.0 comes out and is good? Or how about until you have all your CW {Scrap} working and ready to go or all the details panned out?

You fix the stuff from this image, and I will MAYBE start to trust you all again:



You guys continue to make me ashamed of my Legendary and overlord tags... honestly you do.

Yeah, that's great and all, but I only care about the above... especially CW... Bump, bump, bumpity bump

Edited by Alik Kerensky, 15 December 2013 - 12:34 AM.

[Elyam]

I believe you should use this opportunity to bring LRMs truly into line with all BT rules and lore.

In CBT, Inner Sphere LRMs had the 180m minimum range, based on their high-ballistic-path design interfering with close-in targeting and requiring an arming delay. However, it was stated in some of BT's most established lore that close-in firing could still occur and that it would result in the unarmed warheads 'battering' the target in a noticeable and effective manner (reference battle between Morgan Kell and Yorinaga Kurita). This should lead MWO to allow some effect for it in-game, such as cockpit shake at least (or perhaps minimal damage such as 20%) if you get hit by an unarmed salvo.

For Clan LRM's, you're idea of increasing close-in LRM damage by range doesn't conform to the missile physics, at least not in your minimal explanation. I recommend your concept be based on the changing width of the salvo over time: the salvo launches and immediately spreads during ascent phase, then slowly converges toward target center during descent phase. When firing within 180, the trajectory and spread are changed but still suffer from too many missiles being out of optimal position, which adjusts and improves over the 180 distance. It at least makes sense to find a way to meet your design notion by making it about number of missiles able to make impact.

As for the other ideas - mostly agree. Will wait until you nail it down better.

Edited by Elyam, 15 December 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Saber1]

MischiefSC, on 14 December 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Ow. First few posts and we're already into scorched earth.

I do appreciate the approach to balancing clan tech. It's actually got some great ideas to recommend it. Combine that with relative tonnage restrictions and it might work.

Here are the concerns I have.

1. Based on the current model it will be December of 2014 before a cbill variant of the Timber Wolf, for example, is available. So you are essentially saying that if anyone wants to play anything other than a clan light, maybe a medium, we have to either pay a couple hundred dollars or wait a year. While this isn't 'pay to win' it's pretty much 'pay to play'. This isn't about playing a particular chassis but access to one whole faction in the game.

2. Without a fix to the meta (AC/PPC or stay in the kiddie pool) the clans are not going to be the significant change to the game they should be. There have been recommendations (give PPC/AC and 0.3 to 0.5 second DOT effect, enough to limit the pinpoint effect of poptarting while still making them accurate. Remove gauss charge-up, leave it pinpoint. That's my favorite anyway) but the meta itself is pretty stale at the higher competitive end where Clans *should* be significant.

3. UI 2.0, CW, fixes for SRMs, hit detection, it's a long list. To release clans in a high priced system and gold mechs (there is no worse way to have done this BTW. For future reference. Maybe if you'd made them 'Khan mechs' with clan-specific paint you'd have done far better. As it is you're asking people to pay $500 for a mech that will likely get them TKed) while all that's missing really pours salt on those wounds.

4. The Phoenix Mechs were a poke in the eye. 1 mech in the bundle was good. The Shadowhawk. 60 degree turn on the 1G? Really? I get where you didn't want it to seem P2W but.... really? Hardpoints are bad (for the current meta anyway) and as a given rule everything but the Shadowhawk was DOA. Many of us feel like we spent $80 for a Shadowhawk and some the next generation of Dragons and Awesomes. Can you give us a good reason to trust you that the Clan Mechs won't end up being trash, save maybe one medium? Does giving you $240 mean I get two mechs that are decent instead of one? Not trying to sound bitter here but I'm sincerely asking, on what basis should we put the trust to give you 4x as much money when the last offer literally delivered only 1/4th the goods as decent quality and 3/4ths as muck.

This. So much this.

Being a Jade Falcon Clanner since I started ever playing Mechwarrior, the tech choices here has me cringing but still waiting to see.

However, the kind of money being talked about and the implementing of these mechs makes me loath all of you developers in pure disgust. There's all kinds of problems still existing in the game and hell lot of mechs still missing from the classic IS list that were key in being able to fight the Clans:

Marauder
Warhammer
Rifleman
Archer

Where the hell are the classics?! Why in the hell are you already pushing for the invasion?! Who the hell thought gold skins was worth $500?!

I will TK gold. I will do it passionately and intently. For you're asking people to fork the kind of money people spend as a whole to purchase a new gaming console + games. And you're trying to charge this for a ******* mech skin.

Furthermore, these bundles. I supported founders. I supported Phoenix. ****'s still not fixed and you're convincing us all more and more that you're all about whoring for money at this point.

This isn't the Mechwarrior, or the Classic Battletech I know. You're taking a royal **** on my roots.

You've lost my support and my wallet.

Fix ****. Add maps and balancing. Improve grind, game modes, things that make this game worthy of playing. Cut the ridiculous advertising, count on community to spread the word of a good game. That aspect attracts the most dedicated people anyways. Hire a proper staff since you're already charging more in MC sales than ANY other ******* free-to-play pay-to-win title out there.

Stop being disgusting. Please.

Edited by Saber1, 15 December 2013 - 12:35 AM.

[Praehotec8]

I think PGI needs to address:

1.) The fact that stock armor configurations may leave omnimechs (at least some, I don't know stock armor layouts by heart) woefully fragile, even more when one considers that they are attempting to water-down the power of clan weapons.

2.) The fact that mech aiming speed and ability is coupled directly to engine size, which, for many mechs by default is too low for this game.

Weapon balance aside, these two issues could very well make most omnimechs slow, sluggish, deathtraps with at best slightly more powerful weaponry they won't be able to use effectively before being cored. Consider that in the current game, most effective mechs run nearly full armor, with the largest engine size practical for the chassis.

In addition to other unrelated aspects PGI really ought to address, these issues should be clarified quickly if they hope to sell larger numbers of clan packages.

[Devil Fox]

So on the assumption that TT armour values will stay stock for clan mechs (just doubled for MWO) I went got a 3050 source book and begun looking at the mechs you choose.

Uller - 154 pt, this machine will be woefully under-armoured. The main failures of this machine alongside the low top speed is the minimual CT armour coverage particularly in comparison to the ST. The leg armour is also well under done and this mech will be a one shot core wonder boat or it'll be harassed by IS light's move nearly 50 kph faster legging them like Raven's.

Puma - Full armour, and the distribution of it all is very much to my liking, it seems it will hold a solid punch and be able to stand some return fire. The issues will be low top speed and most likely hitbox issues if not done correctly.

Black Hawk - Another well armoured machine at 96%... and whilst not ideal on the torso's will survive quite well. The issues come it's low top speed to other medium (even heavies) that are now able to match the pace, on top of ghost heat nightmare loadouts.

Ryoken - The best well-rounded machine, near max armour (even if Front/Rear distribution means little upfront protection making movement essential to survival), but the speed... I expect the Ryoken will become the best 55ton machine once released regardless of load-out or jumpjets.

Thor - Slightly under armoured in the legs and front torso region, the Thor makes up for this with Jump jets and speed. Combined with load-outs that run cool, hit hard, and don't impact the overall range profile of the machine it might become a real competition for the Cataphract or Victor.

Mad Cat - Max armour (all well distributed), massive engine, great diversity of load-outs... you can see why the Mad Cat (aka Timber Wolf) is a prized machine on both sides of the war. In essence this machine will be hurt more by weaponary changes then anything else PGI will through at the clans.

Masakari - Much like the Mad Cat but it's a touch over armoured on the rear torso's. The firepower and ghost heat alongside PGI balance will be the cripple of this machine. It will most likely become a favourite defender or hunter/killer machine on the battlefield.

Daishi - Extremely armoured, and carrying similar rear armour to the Masakari. Carrying impressive arrays of weapons no matter the configuration, the hardpoint choices will be extreme and I expect to see these machines alongside Atlas as lords of the battlefield. I expect it will be ghost heat, and slot limitations that will hamper this battlemech more then anything.

So from my analysis every mech is well armoured stock (TT values), except the Thor (made up with Jump Jets and Speed) or the woefully under armoured Uller which will be easily removed from the field by a single high alpha build or harrassing light mechs crippling them. It actually now makes me not want an Uller at all (since that was my favourite mech from the packages alongside the Puma)... it just seems it might be a DoA chassis.

[bundy]

All i can say is PGI have lost the feel of the franchise by trying to make it a fps arcade game rather than a combat sim, Your design changes are well how to say this without getting ban hammered.. inner sphere tech is rubbish so you want to nerf clantech to keep rubbish relevant, the world and certainly in game does not run that way. new tech is generally better but more expensive you pretty much had the right tack with repair and rearm clantech on IS mechs equals one hell of a bill just dont die. the alpha heat damage is a joke and if you still have not realised weapon convergence still is your problem you seem to ignore over and over again.

our entire corp is waiting on the sidelines watching most are preparing to move on to other things your time has run out, You ignored your dedicated fan base now you reap what you sow

[Xyph3r]

by giving out that info before i bought any of the clan packages, you saved me $240 - $740. thanks, PGI.

[Tarzilman]

So many good ideas here. Keep up the constructive criticism instead of all the mimimi.
Today is Dezember the 15. (at least here it is)
Clans arrive June the 17.
Enough time to think about the final clan design.

No one wants to see the clans as op as in the TT. And those who will, please deinstall (if you haven't done yet, eh? ).

Leave the internet for 2-3 days, visit a christmas market, drink some glühwein and enjoy your holidays.

No clans for the next half year, but a new map and the sabre package on tuesday and maybe UI2.0 and DX11 in January.

[Crashingmail]

Instead of hardly trying to reduce each Clan Tech to a level of IS, give each equipment a value like the original TT rules and change that creapy MM to remove Elo and weight and use Battlevalue instead.

Otherwise will the Design of Clan fail.

Edited by Crashingmail, 15 December 2013 - 12:50 AM.

[Mr 144]

wait...don't know how I missed this, but the Daishi Alt. Config. C comes not only with JJs, but ECM as well? huh...I think ~60kph will be just fine....

no way this Alt is making it in-game, lol

Edited by Mr 144, 15 December 2013 - 12:54 AM.

[Orgasmo]

Why on earth can you not do 10 Clan (two Stars) vs 12 IS (3 lances) as balance instead of nerfing? Furthermore, restrict the Clan mechs from using air strikes and artillery modules. It would have been fitting to Battletech canon story, as IS relied on numbers and combined arms against the Clans' individual skills.

Clan tech should be as it is as in the TT. They are simply better than IS, because they are at least two hundred years ahead. They hit harder, further and are lighter. Trying to nerf them into balance with IS weapons is a terrible idea. You are going to lose your remaining Clan fans, which will hurt you financially.

And where is UI 2.0 and CW?

Edited by Orgasmo, 15 December 2013 - 12:59 AM.

[Pup]

PGI = BT HERETICS

[Mizore]

No UI 2.0 yet, no Community Warfare yet, a horrible weapon balancing, no final decision about how clantech will work... but already selling clan mechs...

Seems to me like buying the pig in a poke XD
Nice try PGI, gg close!

Edited by Mizore, 15 December 2013 - 01:06 AM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Saber1, on 15 December 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

There's all kinds of problems still existing in the game and hell lot of mechs still missing from the classic IS list that were key in being able to fight the Clans:

Marauder
Warhammer
Rifleman
Archer

saddly harmony gold kills kittens when anybody suggests using these mechs for MW as they hold IP right's through robotech

[Andodx]

I don't trust you any more IGP or PGI or who every is making decisions in MWO.

You can't finish what you are planing, you are unable to. The projects you got into simply are to big for you to handle. I have no confidence you will be able to release UI 2.0 and CW before your Clan introduction deadline. You've shown in the past, repeatedly, that you are Talking much, promising the perfect game, but couldn't be bothered to keep anything you said.

We believed in you and got betrayed. You have made some terrible choices, in terms of game design, immersion and maintaining player base trust, along the way. Some gave you a second chance, by getting a Phoenix-Package. Your decision to leech of Christmas bonus some get is understandable, from a business standpoint. But it is morally wrong for you to demand that much money in such quick succession after the Phoenix-Package, this is enhanced by your inability to deliver long promised things like UI 2.0.

You need to regain trust!

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.