303 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

Mudhutwarrior, on 02 January 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

Not petty, We understand what comms do in a real situation. If not for radio traffic I would be dead along with others. Its not random luck at all as you portray it.
Maybe that's why i am sticking with this argument and why so many try so hard to discount it.
Can luck play a role? sure but this is not roll the dice mechwarriors is it? When a premade drops against pugs it is a clear advantage. I don't care how many chime in to say they dont really use comms because if that's the case then familiarity comes into play and comms at some point had a very important role.

Its the key to make the game playable for new players, pugs and casuals. Can we join a TS server? Sure. But many of us know two wrongs don't make a right and just joining so we can dump on others who didn't is not the answer either.

didnt you read what i just said-premades are an illusion of skill. Since i'm in clan wolf i know. we drop in teams most of the time we team up and go into public, sure we can communicate and it does help but all were doing is communicating what you should know. It comes down to pilot skill and that can be many aspects. I found that being in a premade didnt increase my chances of winning, it didnt increase my kills. all it did was let me have better control of what i was going to do. Maybe actually have a lance that gets my back but thats it

[Sen]

http://manybooks.net...usun132132.html

Those that feel the game is TOO unbalanced against them can hit the link above and find the MwO strategy guide for download. No, I'm not trolling, I'm dead serious. YW

[BLOOD WOLF]

there is an illusion about pre-mades and it seems like 50% of my matches somebody yells pre-made becuase they lost. For the reasons i explained above you know my voice on the matter but the dream has to stop.

Sen, on 02 January 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

http://manybooks.net...usun132132.html

Those that feel the game is TOO unbalanced against them can hit the link above and find the MwO strategy guide for download. No, I'm not trolling, I'm dead serious. YW

LOL, i cant count how many times i lured an enemy into an ambush

[Varent]

BLOOD WOLF, on 02 January 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

there is an illusion about pre-mades and it seems like 50% of my matches somebody yells pre-made becuase they lost. For the reasons i explained above you know my voice on the matter but the dream has to stop.


LOL, i cant count how many times i lured an enemy into an ambush

Premades.. can up your chance of winning... but its not a guarantee... that said usually it is in fact a matter of people being stupid and walking into things, agreed.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Varent, on 02 January 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

Premades.. can up your chance of winning... but its not a guarantee... that said usually it is in fact a matter of people being stupid and walking into things, agreed.

In which way do they bring up your chances of whining? besides comms? which most of the time is just helping with situational awareness, which players should already have(which most are lacking, which is why we need a training program for new player, or if they need it) I Use teamspeak but that only lets my lance commander tell me things additional information

[DaZur]

I'm all for making the induction of new players into the game easier... They are for all intent and purpose the life-blood of the game.

That said, I'm a little fed up with the disingenuous mollycoddling folks seem to think they need to succeed...

Absolutely... there is a learning curve that PGI still has not addressed in earnest. That said... MW:O is not rocket science... hell, it's not even romper-room.

I have never said "teamwork and communication" do not preclude a decisive advantage. I have however advocated accepting some responsibility for putting forth a little effort to learn the nuances of the game, appreciating this is different than the average FPS and being honest enough with ones self to accept that one is going to get stomped until one takes proactive measures to mitigate that potential.

Easiest way is to join a team (can't believe I'm actually saying this)... grab TS3 and get on coms. Even if you don't participate in discussion, the intel is invaluable. Conversely... One can become a student of the game and learn how to survive in the solo queue by proactively mitigating the impact of environmentals you have control over.

Absolutely... solo'ing is a tough row to hoe. That said, it's not impossible... But like I tell my youth football players "Ya gotta wanna".

Edited by DaZur, 02 January 2014 - 10:40 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Back in the 70's my Jr High Track Motto was, "YouGottaWannaDoIt!"

Maybe they don't teach determination anymore.

[Varent]

DaZur, on 02 January 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

I'm all for making the induction of new players into the game easier... They are for all intent and purpose the life-blood of the game.

That said, I'm a little fed up with the disingenuous mollycoddling folks seem to think they need to succeed...

Absolutely... there is a learning curve that PGI still has not addressed in earnest. That said... MW:O is not rocket science... hell, it's not even romper-room.

I have never said "teamwork and communication" do not preclude a decisive advantage. I have however advocated accepting some responsibility for putting forth a little effort to learn the nuances of the game, appreciating this is different than the average FPS and being honest enough with ones self to accept that one is going to get stomped until one takes proactive measures to mitigate that potential.

Easiest way is to join a team (can't believe I'm actually saying this)... grab TS3 and get on coms. Even if you don't participate in discussion, the intel is invaluable. Conversely... One can become a student of the game and learn how to survive in the solo queue by proactively mitigating the impact of environmentals you have control over.

Absolutely... solo'ing is a tough row to hoe. That said, it's not impossible... But like I tell my youth football players "Ya gotta wanna".

This.

[DaZur]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 January 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

Back in the 70's my Jr High Track Motto was, "YouGottaWannaDoIt!"

Maybe they don't teach determination anymore.

"Determination" was choked out and replaced by not keeping score because little Johnny was sad because he felt like a loser when he "lost" and everybody got a trophy for "trying hard".

wow... That sounds a lot like a contingency of this community....

[Varent]

DaZur, on 02 January 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

"Determination" was choked out and replaced by not keeping score because little Johnny was sad because he felt like a loser when he "lost" and everybody got a trophy for "trying hard".

wow... That sounds a lot like a contingency of this community....

God forbid you arent top score, most kills, always win, always feel usefull, etc etc etc...

God frobid the game is difficult and forces you to work for things... to think... to play smart....

I could go on and on.... one of the primary things that ****** me off about this community.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Varent, on 02 January 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

This.

well, your right its not rocket science and for ppl like me, i was a pro at day 1; However not everybody is like me.

[Sandpit]

Varent, on 02 January 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

issue has already been mentioned in previous posts. Its very sadly common. Only thing I can say is, "It happens." Alot of the issues with this have nothing to do with pgi but the player base instead that leaves matches because they dont want to play on a certain map or because they are trying to make money by getting in matches then leaving.

It's easier to blame premades and pgi because they're evil and touch players in bad places.
Player "look! We have 2 discos! Stewpid pgi! "

Me *reads through the many posts by players on the forums talking about discoing because they don't like a map*

Player "pgi sucks! This is all their fault"

Me "..............."

Disco Troll "gewd gewd, the plan is working! "

See how it works now?

Oh and for added flavor and variety add in the local anti-premade pitchfork mob and I'm sure the ballistics are op crowd will show up eventually as well

[BLOOD WOLF]

wrong quote

[FoxNine]

pugs are going to be uninteresting as long as we don't have ingame voip. Zero communication is like playing with bots. I myself don't have any kind of interest in playing pugs, or doing whatsover grinding since all my focus is in competitve. I use pugs mainly to warmup.

On the otherhand the new skirmish mode got me playing pugs more, just becouse the level of play has increased imo in higher elo.

What comes to 4man dropping, the side with 4 highlanders in coms has a clear advantage. fact.

Edited by FoxNine, 02 January 2014 - 10:55 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

FoxNine, on 02 January 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

pugs are going to be uninteresting as long as we don't have ingame voip. Zero communication is like playing with bots. I myself don't have any kind of interest in playing pugs, or doing whatsover grinding since all my focus is in competitve. I use pugs mainly to warmup.

On the otherhand the new skirmish mode got me playing pugs more, just becouse the level of play has increased imo in higher elo.

wrong there buddy, and whats up with the word Pug? i thought that was a dog

[Mawai]

babadude71, on 02 January 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

TBH i didnt even look at the tonnage, although that is another issue that may need to be addressed for a public match where upon the knowledge of a pre-made is that you a certain of 4 players knowing what they are doing and the remaining 8 are potentially solo players be them new or experienced and if you are lucky then part of a pre-made or another full 4 player pre-made, or if you are lucky enough an 8 man sync drop and a 4 player random, yes there are alot of variables at play here and yes disconnects can happen (not really that hard to pull a few players out of a pool (array) of waiting players).

As for slamming PGI....if you consider speaking truthfully and with harshness slamming then i do sincerely apologize for that but i dont consider my post as slamming anyone, i could how ever if you so choose to slam PGI but where would that get anyone?

The aspect of the game that has great potential for turning new players away is the fact that they are put in the middle of the ELO bracket, so basically they are put up against pre-mades of experienced players and massacred, how long do you think someone will stick at a game where they are completely demoralized to the point of mindless frustration and end up rage quitting? i reckon about 10-20% of new players actually stick it through, most will probably say
"that's no fun, like wtf"
then uninstall,

Ok. I guess I don't understand your screen shot then.

The only obvious pre-made in your screen shot was the 4 man kurita team on the losing side. That could still be coincidence but my guess would be it wasn't.

There are lots of concerns about the matchmaker

- where to start new players in terms of rank

- how to balance pre-mades (I think the matchmaker tries to put the same number of pre-mades on both sides more or less but not always)

- how to try to simultaneously balance tonnage, pilot experience and ability, and pre-made teams to obtain mostly even matches (perfection is not expected in my opinion).

- a good formula to evolve ELO over time (at the present time it only changes when the matches predicted outcome is different from the actual ... then the whole teams ELO changes) ... ELO does not factor in individual pilot performance and ELO is not calculated separately for solo and group play

On top of this they plan to add faction balancing for CW matches so that folks from different factions are on opposing teams but that the teams remain fairly evenly matched. How this can work well built on top of the limitations of the current match maker I am uncertain.

Anyway, the only real issue I could see with the match screen shot you started the thread with was that one side started down 3 mechs due to connection issues ... over which PGI has no control. Other than that it seemed to be fairly evenly balanced.

[BLOOD WOLF]

thats the thing with these MMO's all these new words to replace words that were fine as they were. pug=Public(WTF)

[PropagandaWar]

babadude71, on 02 January 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

so putting solo new players up against teams and experienced players in your view is both fair and balanced?

Yeah itll teach you how to F'ing play. When I was new I wasn't expecting my hand to be held. I learned by getting my butt kicked. I'm sorry but if your training in anything competitive there's a great chance that the other person is greater than you and your going to get your arse kicked before you learn anything. Also I have pugged plenty of times and won against premades as well as gone in with a pre and had my butt to me. It's all a matter of how the team in its entirety plays out. A lot of times the QQ'ers are the ones that helped cause the loss in the first place. Yeah just sit behind that hill when you see a lance plus push in with your large lasers thinking that your really helping out. SMH

[BLOOD WOLF]

I duuno if it tries to match premades, hmm i wonder

PropagandaWar, on 02 January 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Yeah itll teach you how to F'ing play. When I was new I wasn't expecting my hand to be held. I learned by getting my butt kicked. I'm sorry but if your training in anything competitive there's a great chance that the other person is greater than you and your going to get your arse kicked before you learn anything. Also I have pugged plenty of times and won against premades as well as gone in with a pre and had my butt to me. It's all a matter of how the team in its entirety plays out. A lot of times the QQ'ers are the ones that helped cause the loss in the first place. Yeah just sit behind that hill when you see a lance plus push in with your large lasers thinking that your really helping out. SMH

same here

[Dock Steward]

BLOOD WOLF, on 02 January 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

thats the thing with these MMO's all these new words to replace words that were fine as they were. pug=Public(WTF)

I always thought it was Pick Up Game...