184 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

I could provide you with some useful tips, but it sounds like you're already out the door...?

[Void Angel]

The Harvester, on 09 January 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

Also, thanks for the insult. I always say it's easy for people to sit in front of a screen a talk with a big mouth that in real life would get smacked off their face. Glad to know these forums attract a high caliber of interested, helpful persons.

You're immune to irony when you're angry, aren't you?

[Void Angel]

As far as your feedback - well, this game may not be a good fit for you. Not because it's a bad game, but because it takes some time and effort to learn - it's a recognized weakness of the game that new players have a steep learning curve, and one of the things we all hope to have changed once the major features of community warfare (large-scale competition) are complete. If you're going to come new to the game, spend a few hours over the course of two days playing, and then pop onto the forums and blast the game without even asking for help? On the "new player help" forum? You may be happier with a game that's less... strenuous... in its demands on your attention and learning ability.

If, on the other hand, you were just having a bad day, and really want to enjoy the game, stick around. Ignore people like that one guy who claims he's fighting "the very best players all the time," as that's simply not true. Many of us play solo as well as with friends - and there are places where you can find a group and a teamspeak server for voice communication. So if you're really interested in help, we'll help you. If you just want to bash the game in a forum for helping new players, and then scream at people who yell at you for it - well, you've had your cry, and Call of Duty awaits.

[Victor Morson]

OP, you need to suffer through the trial 'mech phase until you can get yourself an active 'mech. Once you do that, your MechWarrior 3 piloting skills will definitely let you feel at home pretty quick.

You need to optimize your builds for what works in MW:O - just as in every MW game - but this will greatly improve your experience.

I highly recommend you look at Cataphract 3D, Victors and Highlanders, as I think you may (from the sounds) prefer a heavier chassis. Once you get setup in a proper 'mech and aren't using trials, you'll be getting kills in no time - in particular if you look at some of the better 'mech guides.

Be wary of forums advice on bad builds, as they won't help your feelings much.

Shar Wolf, on 09 January 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

Finnish your 25 matches - then you can talk.

Shar Wolf: "You're loaded with vile and venom, Victor, and must hate newbies!"
-Newbie has a problem and he immediately bites their heads off-

Positive advice would have been way better for someone who needs help with getting started, you know.

Edited by Victor Morson, 10 January 2014 - 01:31 AM.

[Buckminster]

Appogee, on 10 January 2014 - 01:11 AM, said:

I could provide you with some useful tips, but it sounds like you're already out the door...?

Or it's his 5 post daily limit for new guys. Hopefully he'll be back.

Edited by Buckminster, 10 January 2014 - 03:11 AM.

[Revorn]

Ppl who dont have Fun are leaving, leaving Ppl arent going to buy Stuff. Bad Thing for PGI. Maybe they stating to think about some fixes on the MM.

[mikelovskij]

Revorn, on 10 January 2014 - 03:56 AM, said:

Ppl who dont have Fun are leaving, leaving Ppl arent going to buy Stuff. Bad Thing for PGI. Maybe they stating to think about some fixes on the MM.

TBH matchmaking for new players is a very difficult issue to solve, in other more developed and with a much bigger playerbase games (for example Lol) there are even worse problems.
A newbie island is not a good solutions because it would be a giant incentive for veteran players who just want to have a couple of easy matches to create a new account and go stomping some newbs. I think elo system is still the best way to separate good players from bad/new players but it needs quite some games before starting working correclty. Also the fact that the number of players is not very high makes things more difficult.

[Mott]

I am not a game developer, or code-writer of any sort... so forgive my ignorance if i'm off here...


But how difficult can it really be to rework the matchmaking to allow for the "newbie island" as mikelovskij put it?

If the player pool is very small, then you'd simply provide matches of 6vs6 or 8vs8 or 10vs10 (we're only set on 12v12 because that's the standard MWO has set)... the result is the same: more playtime versus players of close to equal abilities, with mechs of equal power.
As a recent newbie here... i can attest that you learn VERY LITTLE by getting steamrolled within seconds of the match's first encounter. Even if you watch your teammates afterwards, you don't know what you're watching till you've played 100+ matches and then the nuances of what other pilots are doing, your observance of the maps' terrain, etc begin to improve.

Being able to play 7, 8, 10 or 15 minutes of your match allows you FAR more time to learn your own limitations and abilities as well as those of your mech. At the same time you get more time to observe what your opponents are doing as well.

As a vet of hundreds of other games, I've never once felt like going after "a couple of easy matches" and going through the hassle of setting up a whole other account just to find them. Harsh but true IMO, is that folks like that are pretty weak individuals and not who you want to be designing a game around.
I like a challenge... and i go looking for them.

Thankfully MWO provides WAY more than I can handle. It's very humbling. It's the hardest game I've ever played. lol

[AaronWolf]

Mott, on 10 January 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

I am not a game developer, or code-writer of any sort... so forgive my ignorance if i'm off here...


But how difficult can it really be to rework the matchmaking to allow for the "newbie island" as mikelovskij put it?

If the player pool is very small, then you'd simply provide matches of 6vs6 or 8vs8 or 10vs10 (we're only set on 12v12 because that's the standard MWO has set)... the result is the same: more playtime versus players of close to equal abilities, with mechs of equal power.
As a recent newbie here... i can attest that you learn VERY LITTLE by getting steamrolled within seconds of the match's first encounter. Even if you watch your teammates afterwards, you don't know what you're watching till you've played 100+ matches and then the nuances of what other pilots are doing, your observance of the maps' terrain, etc begin to improve.

Being able to play 7, 8, 10 or 15 minutes of your match allows you FAR more time to learn your own limitations and abilities as well as those of your mech. At the same time you get more time to observe what your opponents are doing as well.

As a vet of hundreds of other games, I've never once felt like going after "a couple of easy matches" and going through the hassle of setting up a whole other account just to find them. Harsh but true IMO, is that folks like that are pretty weak individuals and not who you want to be designing a game around.
I like a challenge... and i go looking for them.

Thankfully MWO provides WAY more than I can handle. It's very humbling. It's the hardest game I've ever played. lol

Hardest game I have ever played is Ghosts and Goblins for the old NES. XD That game was evil.

Anyway. UI 2.0 I believe has a much better matchmaking system that is based around such things as the "newbie" zone, where new players will be matched up with more new players. And a full tutorial system will be implemented. Overall it has been in the works for a long time, and it will help this game a lot. I think.

And would alleviate the troublesome beginning that most players encounter.

EDIT: Also tonnages will be more evened out. Even though its not a real big deal unless there is like 5+ more heavy/assault mechs on the opposing side. Then its a bit uneven. And its very rare to even run into that now. XD

Edited by AaronWolf, 10 January 2014 - 07:35 AM.

[wanderer]

One thing I'll say is this- it's toughest learning in real combat. Heat management training in realtime is a guaranteed choke, shutdown, shotdown situation for most newbies.

When you start, never start live and expect to live easily, if at all. Take the 'Mech. Go into the Training Grounds. Learn how it performs- it's movement, firepower, etc. on the stationary targets. It's not a full fight, but it's "level 1", because you won't be going "WHAT WAS THAT BUTTON AGAIN?" while getting plowed under. Control confusion is the biggest newbie killer. Learn how much gun you can put into a target before the shutdown warning goes off- and how far you can push the override. Get comfortable with the alternate visual modes, moving through rough terrain, how jumping works, sniping from long distances, and so on. Real players are tougher, but there's plenty that will apply.

Trial 'Mechs are free. You get what you pay for, and a "tailored" suit is more comfortable than one you just grabbed off the rack. Stock 'Mechs are the 'Mech in the rough- just like in the MW series where you tweaked that baby into fine form from mission to mission, customization = optimization, and you want it. Think of those Trial 'Mech fights as getting a taste of things, and the full meal is when you get that 'Mech of your own, fix it up the way you like it, run it around a few training maps to know just how it handles...and THEN you're ready to be another shark in the shark tank. Your first 25 live fights are training matches, basically. You'll get a big ol' fat bonus for being the inevitable target practice, and how well you learn will mean the extra bit in your pocket when it comes time to buy that first 'Mech.

And speaking of bought 'Mechs- if you sell a chassis, STRIP IT OF PARTS FIRST. Having that engine from your old 'Mech on hand to mod the new one can save millions, and likewise every weapon you don't have to buy twice is that much more saved. Later on when you've got enough of them, you can always sell them back too.

[Nick Makiaveli]

The Harvester, on 09 January 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

@Shar Wolf... First off, I can talk whenever I damn well feel like it. Excuse me if I don't hang out on message boards all the time and know all the "proper" places to put every damned thing. I was just posting about my reaction to the game, and not everybody loves everything. As to trolling new players, I don't know what on earth you're talking about; again, this was just my feedback after playing the game for about three hours.

Also, thanks for the insult. I always say it's easy for people to sit in front of a screen a talk with a big mouth that in real life would get smacked off their face. Glad to know these forums attract a high caliber of interested, helpful persons.

In Shar's defense, he is normally a helpful member of the community, so he must have been off his meds that day.

However, he does have a point that you can't expect to walk into a game and dominate from the get go. Veteran players don't have better mechs, they have customized mechs that fit their playstyle. They know what they are good at, they have lots of practice and have fine tuned their mechs to cater to them.

You on the other have effectively no experience, you don't know what type of mech works best for you etc. When i started I thought I would be best at being a scout and after mastering (as in getting around 60K xp in each, not counting the variants) 2 different Lights, I am not a train wreck anymore, but I am forced to admit I work best as a long range fire support guy.

The current trial mechs aren't bad, they just aren't optimized for a specific role, or not the one you want to play.

If all you are looking for is a game where you can win every time from the start, this isn't it. MWO is like Chess. The basic moves are easy to learn (how to move and attack) but takes time to truly master the game and even then odds are you won't be the best.

You get out of MWO what you put into it. Pick a House or a merc unit, or even just visit No Guts, No Galaxy, jump on TS and drop with some people. I prefer dropping with DHB over random people simply because it's more fun to drop with friends, and it doesn't hurt that coordination helps win battles.

Also, no one cares about your KDR. Many a time I have rushed a whole lance or two by myself to buy time for my buddies to flank or cap the base. My KDR was .33 last I checked and yet I am proud of my record. I am not a great pilot, but I do my best to do the job assigned to me. If I die, but my team wins, then it's a victory.

I hope you hang around, read the Short Question, Short Answer thread and ask a lot of questions. It will improve your experience and will help you get better.

[mikelovskij]

Mott, on 10 January 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

As a vet of hundreds of other games, I've never once felt like going after "a couple of easy matches" and going through the hassle of setting up a whole other account just to find them. Harsh but true IMO, is that folks like that are pretty weak individuals and not who you want to be designing a game around.
I like a challenge... and i go looking for them.

I can't say much about this game, moslty because I play it since just one month, but in Lol(league of legends) this happens A LOT and the experience in the first matches is very harsh for new players. Not always the reason for creating new accounts is the reason I stated before. For example when I convinced some friend of mine to play that game, I created a new account in order to play with him without forcing him to go against people at my level. The first games with the new account were a complete roflstomp (that game is much more snowbally since for each kill you gain resources and levels and u get stronger) until the matchmaker understood my skill level and started putting strong enemies against me. So I had to create a third account and so on... if instead of an elo system the enemies would have been selected using a "newbie island" system I would have been able to play against newbies much longer without the hassle of creating new accounts. But I think I'm going too much off topic :/

[JC Daxion]

Appogee, on 10 January 2014 - 01:11 AM, said:

I could provide you with some useful tips, but it sounds like you're already out the door...?

There are many helpful people around if you ask... I have asked tons, and gotten helped tons.. I still am not great, but i can win some matches, help my team, and don't always feel useless... This finally after 72 hours played....

Some nights i do nothing but die in PUG's teams.. those nights i pack it in early, and give it a some time. I often find some afternoons i can play 4-8 great matches in a row, then i log out.. i figure.. a hour or two of fun, and then go is better than getting stomped for 4 hours strait..


Don't give up,, learn and ask q's.. maybe join a team speak thing and learn from the pro's, or people that aren't bad at least

[Nick Makiaveli]

War Beast, on 09 January 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

After that they put you in with high elo players non stop. Organized 4 mans. Sync dropping 4 mans. The absolute min/max/cheese builds are the norm. Basically its an infinitely less forgiving environment. There is no margin for error any more. Learning the ropes and running non cheese builds becomes brutal. Just ask any veteran who starts grinding a new chasis. Its no fun at the beginning. Which is where you are just outside of 25 matches. Not only that but you are a LONG way from mastering much less eliting your current mechs.

And heaven forbid you actually played well for your first 25 games. Suddenly your have a good elo, and you are facing the best players out there. ALL right off the bat. All the time.

That is the honest and sad truth about this game and new players. Until they can fix the hell that is the current matchmaking, it's going to continue sucking.

I do have to say its truly ridiculous for a new player once you get out of that fist 25 rounds. It's essentially a nightmare of unfair matchmaking while dealing with inferior builds against a majority of cheese builds. Its quite hard to stomach.

Thinned that out a bit, but what's left is a lot of false information.

Getting thru your first 25 matches does not throw you into a high Elo hell full of pre-mades etc. It simply applies the Elo you have earned in your first 25 matches which is probably not accurate. Takes time to sort out, plus each weight class has it's own Elo so your 25 matches could be split up into 4 categories, so yes you might have a high Elo in Lights if you got lucky.

In short, the Elo system predicts the winner of a match, and if that sides loses, their Elo goes down, and the winners goes up. If the prediction is correct, nothing happens.

Also, please explain why it's wrong for friends to team up and play together? Especially when NGNG and Comstar have TS servers that anyone can join, so you don't need an organized group or a 3 friends to play with. Also any good group will accommodate people without mics and I can't see someone playing MWO without speakers. Also you can get a standalone mic from Walmart for $5 so almost anyone who can afford a computer can afford a mic. And if you can't, well like I said, plenty of groups out there that are fine with that as long as you can listen in.

FTR, yes I am one of those evil, tryhard, pre-made cheesy meta using ******** who roflstomp people. And by that I mean yea the other day when someone said let's run all BoomJagers, I got mine out and we ran 3 BoomJagers (dual AC/20s) and a Hunchback with 1 AC/20. I quickly had an arm taken out, but we used tactics (went bottom center of HPG) and murdered all comers, then worked our way up top. I think we had 7 or 8 kills in our lance. It was great fun, Now normally we don't do that, Outside of training, we usually just run whatever mech we are leveling up and thus have a grab bag of weights, builds etc and have fun, win or lose.

But occasionally we will all run Lights and go all wolfpack on ya. Or all Assaults and just get stuck in with the 'oomies!!1 (Oops, wrong game).

Point being is we aren't evil people. We are just playing around having fun. 12 mans are where it's "serious business". Don't complain about meta/cheese/tryhards until you run into some of the truly good players. Shout out to the Northwind guys, every time I run into those guys I know school is in session and I have better brought pen and paper to take notes with.

But ya know what? I've dropped solo and been whupped 12-0. I've scored 36 damage in a Battlemaster. I've also gotten 4-5 kill in a Locust with over 300 damage. (it's rare, like 1 in a thousand, but it's happened.) Point being is I have fun or I go play something else, like Mass Effect 3 (really need to finish that) or Rift. If I get frustrated, it's time to quit for a while. But winning or losing rally isn't a big deal, it's whether I had a good match or not.

Had an awesome Conquest match the other day we won 750 to like 680+. I did 0 damage that game. But had a blast trying to cap, avoiding the bad guys etc. I think we lost 8 mechs to their 11. Talk about ggclose!!

Figure out what makes you happy in MWO and work that. If it's nothing, then sad to say, this may not be your game. But work all the angles, talk to lots of people, experiment the hell out of it. Try an alt account if you think starting over would be easier.

End of the day, you have to do what makes you happy (and doesn't get you thrown in jail!!)

[Kjudoon]

I should also point this out: Do not listen to anyone else's idea of success. Not KDR, not DPS, not total damage output... nothing. Find what tells you that you are improving, and go with that.

Ultimately, if you aren't having fun, and you see no reason to keep playing, don't. I've had to take that advice to heart myself and realize that if I am getting so mad that I'm ready to cut loose with a long fulsade of profanity (and mute my mic for a while) it's time to walk away and do something else. But I always get the itch after a while and come backc because of good growing friendships here in the Seraphim, the love of the universe and the general fun of blasting the snot out of some big clunky robot.

[WVAnonymous]

Buckminster, on 09 January 2014 - 06:54 PM, said:

And another thing - it also takes a lot of time to find your style, and get all of the C-bills and XP that it takes to get the full capability of a mech. It's not well explained (not at all really), but each mech has three tiers of skills - Basic, Elite and Master - that will make your mech more nimble, more responsive and faster as you unlock them. And it will easily take 70-100 matches to reach that point, and you need to do it with three variants of the same mech to actually unlock them all. So you really need 200-300 matches before you have a mech that is fully optimized.

And I'm not trying to scare you off - they intentionally make it a slow climb to the top, but once you find a mech that you like, 200 matches goes by in a flash.

And another "for the record" - I am a moderate player, and I exclusively drop solo. I have almost 1300 matches under my belt since the last stats reset, so in reality I have more than that. But after 1300 matches, in 21 different mechs, I just finally got a 1.0 KDR in one of my mechs. In the other 20 mechs, I die more often than I kill. This game is tough. It's tons of fun, but it's tough.

Edit: another thing, as another old school gamer. I was dying for a chance to use a joystick with this. So I tried that, and as much as I wanted it to, joystick alone does not work well. I've been using a hybrid joystick and mouse control scheme, and it's worlds better.

Thanks for the ego boost Buckminster! I have KDR above 1.0 in 12 out of 60 mechs, but based on who posts their "real" KDRs I had always assumed I must have been a train wreck. (To reduce any thought that I am actually good, my overall KDR is 0.68)

To OP and follow-on posters, I periodically take out the trial mechs to sucker opposing players into assuming I'm new. The (C) mech builds are pretty good. Like all mechs without the XP buffs they are slow and clumsy, but the configurations are fine. I get kills in those too.

[Nick Makiaveli]

WVAnonymous, on 10 January 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

Thanks for the ego boost Buckminster! I have KDR above 1.0 in 12 out of 60 mechs, but based on who posts their "real" KDRs I had always assumed I must have been a train wreck. (To reduce any thought that I am actually good, my overall KDR is 0.68)

To OP and follow-on posters, I periodically take out the trial mechs to sucker opposing players into assuming I'm new. The © mech builds are pretty good. Like all mechs without the XP buffs they are slow and clumsy, but the configurations are fine. I get kills in those too.

I hear ya on the folks who post I used to suck with a 3.0 KDR, but now I am up to 6.2 and starting to kick some butt.

It's nonsense, since it's an average they would have to get 9+ kills on a regular basis to make up for the early days when it was low.

They are just trying to score some e-peen and it's not good for the community when people see that and think the rest of us give a {Scrap}. Last I looked my overall was like .33 but I really don't care if I die as long as I helped the team. So I will make a suicide rush if it buys time for the team to win.

[AaronWolf]

Nick Makiaveli, on 10 January 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

I hear ya on the folks who post I used to suck with a 3.0 KDR, but now I am up to 6.2 and starting to kick some butt.

It's nonsense, since it's an average they would have to get 9+ kills on a regular basis to make up for the early days when it was low.

They are just trying to score some e-peen and it's not good for the community when people see that and think the rest of us give a {Scrap}. Last I looked my overall was like .33 but I really don't care if I die as long as I helped the team. So I will make a suicide rush if it buys time for the team to win.

I don't know why people are so fascinated by KDR in a game like this. Win/Loss means a lot more. Team game people. TEAM GAME.

So, good on you Nick. You are good man. Make many win with noble sacrifice.

[Void Angel]

Revorn, on 10 January 2014 - 03:56 AM, said:

Ppl who dont have Fun are leaving, leaving Ppl arent going to buy Stuff. Bad Thing for PGI. Maybe they stating to think about some fixes on the MM.

They're already re-writing the matchmaker. They made an educational video and everything.

[DrSlamastika]

The Harvester, on 09 January 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

Dear Site / Game Owners,

I'm a BT gamer from the hex board days with a goodly amount of MW3 stuck in, and I just have to say... After two days of playing this online game, while it looks fabulous, you must have to play this for months to develop any kind of ability to do anything useful in the game. EIther that, or the stuff you can buy absolutely dominates the default mechs that are offered.

Any time I've gotten into a skirmish with another mech, I get the fire blasted out of me every.... single... time. It's impossible to keep a reticle on target for any length of time, certainly not long enough to get a meaningful shot off. It's enough that the game after two days is not fun at all now that the novelty of it has worn off.

I hope perhaps yourselves or someone else that can use this property might put together a single-player campaign style version of this; that I would play for sure. But the online version of this is just no fun at all. I wish you folks the best.

-TR

what a noooob