322 replies to this topic

[ssm]

Smittiferous, on 22 January 2014 - 04:00 AM, said:

You are all kidding, right? Headaches? Please...


I heardly notice it. In fact I have to actively look for it to notice it.

Pfft.

Leave it, looks good.

At least we know now why MASC hasn't been added yet - after learning of JJ-shake vomiting and cockpit glass headaches PGI is afraid of players getting a heart attack from going over 200 km/h.

[Helsbane]

Back in the army, I couldn't be a crew member of any fully enclosed vehicle due to getting physically ill due to the motion of the track vs. the environment my eyes could see. This sort of visually induced motion sickness isn't uncommon really. Mine was so bad I would puke after about four minutes of exposure to a moving, windowless environment.

This new feature really takes me back to those days. I do my best to ignore it, playing in full zoom as much as possible to cut it down, but every time one of those screen glares chases across the screen, I feel my stomach lurch a tiny bit. It's all due to the disparity between the heading of the mech and the anticipated motion vs. random screen motion that has nothing to do with direction of travel / terrain encountered.

No one asked for this new layer of BS on the glass, so why was time and effort devoted to it instead of directed at real issues present in the game? Is prioritization really that big of a challenge for PGI? Is the list of 'sh*t to do next' determined by a dartboard with random post it notes covering it? I'm really curious how this got time and effort while we're still, STILL, getting hung on maps, falling through the ground, and shooting at things that were really there a second ago, but are gone now.

You really shoulda kept the beta tag.

[x Marder x]

Yeah making sniping harder by letting players puke all over there keyboards. Only
the best can be Mechwarriors.I guess. Still a game and games that make ppl ill are no fun games at all.

I like the effect, from the few seconds I could enjoy it. I am luck not to get monition sick so fast or at all.

Edited by x Marder x, 22 January 2014 - 05:08 AM.

[CarnageINC]

Oh brother....PGI .....what are you doing?!? This is just one more nail in the coffin for some of us. I am not one to make bad comments about PGI, for the most part I have supported you guys with my money. I have patently waited for you, PGI, to make a great game. But this feature wasn't asked for nor is it needed IMO.

Several people have made comments about immersion, you want it or not? Yet you have 3rd person view? I just don't understand? I agree with those people asking for glass effects to be able to be turned off or at least scaled back. This sounded like a neat idea somebody in PGI but it is just a eye sore. To my eye it just doesn't look right and after awhile I too am experiencing a nauseating effect .

[TyrEol]

I played a few matches with this last night, it seems to be more noticeable on some maps than others.

It looks cool in places like the peripheral bits of the windows, but build up in dusting and clouding of the main view as the match progresses bugged me a little like it does when my glasses need cleaning and I found myself squinting at the screen on tourmaline trying to see through it, which is probably bad.

I think a switch to turn this off is probably important for some and maybe it needs a little toning down in some places generally as well for everyone else who wants to leave it switched on.

[Mr Andersson]

I have no problem with the glass effect in game. But I am rather worried by the fact that PGI finds the time to work on minor things like this (which don't really enhance gameplay) when there are obviously more important matters to work at.

[Rhialto]

I like new glass effect, but find it a bit too greenish and would prefer a more grayish tint.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

This thread isn't about like or dislike. I think it is a nice idea. But this is about it is actually causing pain to people while trying to play. I know it hurts my eyes something fierce after a couple of matches.

[C E Dwyer]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 21 January 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

You guys are ridiculous. I've been hitting stuff without advanced zoom at 1400m with erppc. the glass isn't even a factor at any level of zoom.

and PGI said they are still tuning it.

I find the tint a bit too green and the effect could be improved / made clearer, and I agree that the light source entering the model from behind is rather funny, but overall it's still a great effect and it does nothing major to hamper effective combat visibility.

Nevermind the immersion factor. even if it does hamper vision a little, it'd be a LOT worse if it was actually real glass, imagine the mud, grime, etc in a real battlemech fight, the tiny bit of glass you see now is nothing compared to the visual impairement that could exist. the blizzard on any frost map would leave big drops on your windshield too.

oh yeah, disable the cockpit glass. and freeze to death on frozen colony, or die from heatstroke on terra therma.

Too much QQ from mechwarriors to weak to man up to the simulation that's coming.

I have a RL job where I'm cold in the winter and sweating in the summer, and I have to man up because in the 31st century they couldn't invent clear glass or windscreen wipers ?

This issue doesn't effect you, yet the people it does, somehow are a problem for your enjoyment, well if these people stop playing because it spoils their enjoyment, or have the issues they're complaining of, you won't have a game to play if the people going are regular paying customers.

Rhialto, on 22 January 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

I like new glass effect, but find it a bit too greenish and would prefer a more grayish tint.

green tint actually highlights red in bright sunlight, but I bet its not any easier to hit red mech in tourmilain

[KodiakGW]

Cathy, on 22 January 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

This issue doesn't effect you, yet the people it does, somehow are a problem for your enjoyment, well if these people stop playing because it spoils their enjoyment, or have the issues they're complaining of, you won't have a game to play if the people going are regular paying customers.

Agreed 100%. All of you posting "It looks grrrrreat!" "Man up" "Makes it look like RL combat" are all missing the point. Here it is, really simple for you.

1) Will removing this make you want to stop playing the game? - A: No
2) Is this a feature that will draw hundreds of new players to the game? - A: No
3) Will this bring back hundreds of players that have left the game for many other reasons? - A: No
4) Will this make players (numbers to be seen) leave the game because it is making them physically ill? - A: Yes

Simple. Keep as is = lost players. These are players that have stuck around and dealt with all the other issues that have made others leave (C-bill nerf, SRM hit detection, JJ shake, 3rd person, game stagnation, etc.). I would suggest the devs removing this, taking the names of those who said they had issues, and bring them into testing the "fixed" versions until they no longer become physically ill.

[Serapth]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 21 January 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

You guys are ridiculous. I've been hitting stuff without advanced zoom at 1400m with erppc. the glass isn't even a factor at any level of zoom.

and PGI said they are still tuning it.

I find the tint a bit too green and the effect could be improved / made clearer, and I agree that the light source entering the model from behind is rather funny, but overall it's still a great effect and it does nothing major to hamper effective combat visibility.

Nevermind the immersion factor. even if it does hamper vision a little, it'd be a LOT worse if it was actually real glass, imagine the mud, grime, etc in a real battlemech fight, the tiny bit of glass you see now is nothing compared to the visual impairement that could exist. the blizzard on any frost map would leave big drops on your windshield too.

oh yeah, disable the cockpit glass. and freeze to death on frozen colony, or die from heatstroke on terra therma.

Too much QQ from mechwarriors to weak to man up to the simulation that's coming.

I seem to recall you were one of the biggest ****** when JJ shake was introduced too... To you, and other members of the Flat Earth Society, let me clue you in on something... just because it doesn't affect you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

This is very similar to the JJ shake mistake. It's an incorrect simulation, and some peoples brains are more perceptive to the flaws. This is the brains way of warning "hey, something is wrong here". Every video game is going to have it to a certain degree, due to the fact you are tricking your brain into believing it is in motion when it isn't. It's how far off the mark their simulation is that determines the effect on people. If the glass was more accurate ( say... not lit from lightsources that don't exist ), the effect would probably be much less profound.

Some of it too will go away in time. You play something enough your brain will shrug and go about it's day. This is a double edged sword though, as once your brain has accepted a certain simulation, the lack of that can be equally disorienting. This is an easy one to demonstrate with people that are even marginally susceptible to the problem. If you've played any number of first person shooters in your life, go back in time and play the original Doom. The lack of full 3D and the lack of head motion will probably have you hurling your cookies. I literally played thousands of hours of that game when it came out, but more than five to ten minutes with it now and I will probably harf.


For this glass change, I am personally not affected, but I understand the underlying cause and after my experience with JJ shake, I am certainly sympathetic.

Edited by Serapth, 22 January 2014 - 07:03 AM.

[JD R]

I wish for some glaseffect i got it and i like it and if i could i would like the hard PT version it looks much cooler.

And i would say train your stomach or move your point of view in the configs closer to the glass to get a wider view. This should help.

[Corvus Antaka]

Helsbane, on 22 January 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

Back in the army, I couldn't be a crew member of any fully enclosed vehicle due to getting physically ill due to the motion of the track vs. the environment my eyes could see. This sort of visually induced motion sickness isn't uncommon really. Mine was so bad I would puke after about four minutes of exposure to a moving, windowless environment.

This new feature really takes me back to those days. I do my best to ignore it, playing in full zoom as much as possible to cut it down, but every time one of those screen glares chases across the screen, I feel my stomach lurch a tiny bit. It's all due to the disparity between the heading of the mech and the anticipated motion vs. random screen motion that has nothing to do with direction of travel / terrain encountered.

No one asked for this new layer of BS on the glass, so why was time and effort devoted to it instead of directed at real issues present in the game? Is prioritization really that big of a challenge for PGI? Is the list of 'sh*t to do next' determined by a dartboard with random post it notes covering it? I'm really curious how this got time and effort while we're still, STILL, getting hung on maps, falling through the ground, and shooting at things that were really there a second ago, but are gone now.

You really shoulda kept the beta tag.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1428818

Alright. The link above seems to cover what you are talking about.

I'm thinking that the solution might be a "glass tint color" option?

right now glass is rather "Green" and thick with light on high reflections causing some minor visual impairmements. For myself, I've had 0 problems with motion sickness or visual impairments from the glass, but after finding this military article I'm more inclined to believe you, even if it seems odd when I myself do not experience these issues.

Maybe just a toggle for green/white/blue cockpit glass could work, with white being less aparent than the other 2 to minimize the vision and balance issues some people are experiencing.

as for those of you I pushed into rage territory in my previous post, I find your lack of control and angry outbursts rather amusing. Jumpjet shake was briefly motion sickness inducing, but PGI has toned it down so much since then that now it's super easy to deal with. But, given everyone is stronger/weaker and has different tolerance levels, this is to be expected.

It may in fact be easiest to rectify the cockpit glass glare with a cfg option for colour adjustment or glare. I am currently using a user.cfg that upgrades the visual quality significantly, so I suppose because of this the glass combined with high post processing could indeed with film grain be causing some heavy negative visual experiences for some of you.

[Spaismahn]

If cockpit glass is in, then I'm out. That's not a threat of feature hate. It bugs my eyes out way too much. First game I've ever had eye problems with and, no, I don't have any problems driving a car. If mechs had optical glass as good as my car, I wouldn't have any problems.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

Toggle seems unfair in this case, however, I have yet to receive head aches or motion sickness. I haven't had a chance to step in every place in every map and do a 360...

but I really like the glass and can't wait for them to add a whole bunch of effects for lasers, ppcs, autocannons, machine guns, flamers.

I may be eating my own words in the future but everybody is going to be pissed when they learn flamers could permanently black out the side views... or bullet holes from an unarmored cockpit.... just saying.... it's going to get worse before it gets better for people who see this as a bad thing.

I personally do not understand how one could get motion sickness from these effects but feel bad for those who do, and these are real things that can bring more balance / immersion / play styles into the game.

[Nihtgenga]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 21 January 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

and PGI said they are still tuning it.

Better question: Why they did work on it in preference to really gameplay-affecting basic mechanics they promised to be already done long ago? I don't mind having another effect, but I do not see it as a feature of MWO nearly as crucial as other things like CW.

Quote

Nevermind the immersion factor. even if it does hamper vision a little, it'd be a LOT worse if it was actually real glass, imagine the mud, grime, etc in a real battlemech fight, the tiny bit of glass you see now is nothing compared to the visual impairement that could exist. the blizzard on any frost map would leave big drops on your windshield too.

So you think it helps the immersion into the feeling of piloting a high-tech fighting machine from 3050 to NOT have vibration-cleaning systems like 21st century fighter jets, or even plain windshield wipers like a 20th century car? Yeah, sure...

Quote

Too much QQ from mechwarriors to weak to man up to the simulation that's coming.

I'm ready to discuss this, as soon as MWO can be at least called a simulation without 90% of the people hearing that bursting into laughter. Until that, please put the arrogance about "to weak to man up" where the sun don't shine, thank you very much.


Fact is, people seem to get sick from the effect, which keeps them from playing the game. If this persists even after PGI tunes it down a bit, it needs to go (or a switch for turning it off) regardless of the question of how realistic it is, like fast-flickering objects/surfaces causing a risk for epileptics from other games.

[Tarzilman]

I can't believe this whining in here.
Headache and dizziness?
Maybe you shoult buy a new monitor.

Well, of course I can only judge from my pov. I have no problems with the cockpit glass, even though I am vulnerable to this kind of visual overstimulation.

But imho PGI should stay where they are. It seems that things are moving forward and the cockpit feeling now is very authentic.

Edited by Tarzilman, 22 January 2014 - 09:18 AM.

[draiocht]

I don't normally get motion sickness from video games, but this effect has occasionally been physically unpleasant. The greenness and opacity makes sure it's non-ignorable (at least for me).

Moreover, when in Advanced Zoom, there is sort of an after-jiggle when moving the view. After everything else is still, the glass-effect sometimes continues to shift about for a couple seconds. This is especially disorienting and seems outright buggish.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

feels like im wearing the wrong prescription glasses, made me nauseous.reminded me of 'the jerk'.and it makes the visual effects blurry and crappier looking.

Edited by Gorantir, 22 January 2014 - 09:53 AM.

[Ashvins]

Tarzilman, on 22 January 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

I can't believe this whining in here.
Headache and dizziness?
Maybe you shoult buy a new monitor.

Well, of course I can only judge from my pov. I have no problems with the cockpit glass, even though I am vulnerable to this kind of visual overstimulation.

But imho PGI should stay where they are. It seems that things are moving forward and the cockpit feeling now is very authentic.

Look if you can't say something constructive say nothing at all. If you'd ever had a true migraine you would not call it whining, it would be a legitimate complaint. As far as the monitor comment, you apparently have no ideal what your talking about. Everyone's eyes adjust to the depth of your field of view. With any monitor you can't adjust it, it is a FLAT SCREEN with NO DEPTH.

Toning the effect down may help. But removing it WILL help. Roll back or toggle matters not to me as long as it can be removed for me at the very least. They can take it back to the test server to tune it or just give us a toggle for now.

At current unless i want a migraine (trust me I'm not masochistic) the game is unplayable for me.