511 replies to this topic

[Henry Morgan]

Nick Makiaveli, on 26 January 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

I don't disagree with much you say, and I have yet to agree with Mud on the color of the sky, but i don't follow what you are getting at...care to clarify?

Welcome to the wonderful Catch-22. Screen shots, and things like specifics fall into the "name and shame", and thus get pulled. The funny part is, when caught in one of the lies, the screen shot was first claimed to be "edited". Until others spoke up about also witnessing the same behavior. Then it was "I don't recall" doing it. Until, that is, the posts were knocked down for violating the name-and-shame policy. Once knocked down and no longer able to be viewed, the new claim/lie was "it never happened".

Reporting appalling in-game behavior apparently does not much. Or the tolerance bar for bad behavior is set way too high by PGI.

Either way, their actions (or lack of) pretty much told me what customer they value, and they lost out on at least 1 more heroic mech purchase (Hunch, I like mediums) and a Clan Pack purchase, and premium time player. PGI seems to want the bad behavior player to stick around, which is fine as it's their game. I can also choose to spend my money elsewhere, which I've done.

Which is why I mentioned the irony of the claims/lies by a player who gets up on their soap box claiming to be for the 'casual' player. When, in fact, their actions (as well as PGI's lack of) are responsible for driving paying customers away to other games.

[Almond Brown]

RG Notch, on 30 January 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

PGI is succeeding at making a lot of people unhappy, so there's that.

And truth be told there are a lot of people who will never, or just don't want to be happy. So there's that too.

[elsie]

In Xtrekker's examples (good damage BTW), first there's not enough information to make a real determination. One - how do you know you didn't have one or two premades on your side? The red teams premade was easy to spot because they're all in the same chassis, but not all groups do that. Second - it looks like your team got beat by more than a premade. At least two others on the red team had high damage as well, and in different lances so they weren't grouped up.

In the 'pug' screenshots, again there is no way of knowing that you didn't have premades on your team. Might have been only a two or three man team that found each other on a TS server, but they could have just as easily been on either side (or some on both sides).

I usually drop with friends. I frequently seen people I know are grouped on the other side. Sometimes it's a blowout and sometimes it's not. Back in the day, PGI claimed that most people dropped in a group (IIRC this was after 4 man limit was instituted). I don't see why it should be different now.

I think if there were a solo only queue, the only change would be that the soloists would have to find some other way to blame 'premades' - probably "OMG sync drops" for their inadequacy.

[Abivard]

Xtrekker, on 30 January 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

Typical night last night...

VS 1 premade

Spoiler

VS PUGs

Spoiler

Now, I did take issue with one of those Victors when I jammed him up against a wall pumping 3xLL into his red CT after stripping all armor from both legs, RA, RT, and CT and he suddenly stopped taking any damage, but that's another story.

However, case in point, here's what one premade lance can do to a typical PUG team.

And the next point, why am I in the same queue with some of these poor newbies?

Elo is broken. Premade stomps my team, my Elo goes down. Then poor newbie has to face me in the PUGoff. It's a mess and premades are borking the system.

What I noticed was every drop one or more players failed to load or disco'd. the team that was short a person lost each time.

In one of your pug examples I saw a couple names together that I always see playing together, so you did have a premade when you claimed all were pugs.

[RG Notch]

Henry Morgan, on 30 January 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

Welcome to the wonderful Catch-22. Screen shots, and things like specifics fall into the "name and shame", and thus get pulled. The funny part is, when caught in one of the lies, the screen shot was first claimed to be "edited". Until others spoke up about also witnessing the same behavior. Then it was "I don't recall" doing it. Until, that is, the posts were knocked down for violating the name-and-shame policy. Once knocked down and no longer able to be viewed, the new claim/lie was "it never happened".

Reporting appalling in-game behavior apparently does not much. Or the tolerance bar for bad behavior is set way too high by PGI.

Either way, their actions (or lack of) pretty much told me what customer they value, and they lost out on at least 1 more heroic mech purchase (Hunch, I like mediums) and a Clan Pack purchase, and premium time player. PGI seems to want the bad behavior player to stick around, which is fine as it's their game. I can also choose to spend my money elsewhere, which I've done.

Which is why I mentioned the irony of the claims/lies by a player who gets up on their soap box claiming to be for the 'casual' player. When, in fact, their actions (as well as PGI's lack of) are responsible for driving paying customers away to other games.

It is laughable to hear about how PGI bans people and how folks "know" they ban offenders. Unless you've been banned you won't know as PGI won't talk about what they do, or likely don't do with reports. Seems like reporting anyone is a waste of time as PGI won't follow up any requests. That's their policy, and whatever, but it hardly instills confidence that anything is done when you file a report. So waste time reporting at your own risk. PGI once used to claim they were going to add an in game report function, like many modern games, but things like General Discussion forums and such seem to be beyond their abilities. They haven't mentioned adding that anymore, so that kind of speaks to how serious they take reporting.

[Xtrekker]

Ah, well news to me then. I've started screenshotting the games now just to document if it's in my head or something real. What I see is the outcome seems predetermined regardless of my performance, and most often it looks like a premade tipped that scale.

But really, who knows I guess. I think it's a pretty hard argument to swallow that most premade teams don't have a game-determining advantage in the absence of a complete fluke. And in the case of MWO, those 4-mans aren't looking to engage the other 4-man (assuming MM granted that)...they are looking to cull pubbies while using their own pubs as a meat shield.

Anyway, this is clearly a big topic for a huge portion of the player base, and I don't see why PGI wouldn't address it. Certainly I can't think of anything else to be of more benefit to new players, and they shoved in the largely unwanted 3PV entirely on that premise.

Also, we ran plenty of 4v4 matches back in the day. If the number of players can't support splitting queues for 12v12, MM should have the ability to drop to 8v8 or 4v4 if necessary and amend objectives as appropriate. For high Elo players, add an option (or requirement) to be included in the group queue to fill out lances.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Blackadder, on 28 January 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

In game voice is not really needed, but is a nice feature. however, the current level of communication between players falls into one of two categories. Non existent, or 3rd party VOIP. Having VOIP is such an advantage because the normal communication templates do not exist in MWO, as opposed to other PVP style games, both F2P and FPS titles.

To attempt to say that get on TS3,Mumble, Ventrillo etc, to actually use teamwork does of this game does not need social interaction in game will only ensure it continues to alienate a portion of the potential player base, and will stunt potential growth and retention of potential and existing player base long term.

I don't think it will make much of a difference. Which is one reason why I think PGI has it on the back burner.

Mudhutwarrior, on 28 January 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Saw this kind of post many times so i did the same and created a new account. Soon after my noob bonus I saw the same people I always see. So sorry I don't believe a word of it.

Mudhutwarrior, on 29 January 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Both elos different though so it is differnt

Two thoughts. One is maybe you just suck and thus your Elo never changed. Second, you are a liar. You continue to go on about your Elo yet you have no idea what it is.

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 January 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

Not me, I get awestruck when I see one real good pilot. Concentrated fire is easy and a no skill solution. There is a reason i stay pug. What I win/score is mine. Need no crutches. Not to say I don't appreciate good team work because i do. But team work based on instinct and intuition not comms. No way to tell if a premade is doing one or the other.

No skill huh? So now we come to the truth. You think you are the better player since you run solo in a team based game.

Also, team work is working together. Total strangers can work together with comms. Done it many times with the DHB when I log in at odd times and wind up running with the 1st or 2nd Brigade, ie non NA players whom I've had little or no contact with. So stop prattling on about things you know nothing or little about.

Khobai, on 30 January 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

exactly. anyone can do good in a premade. I get so sick of people that play 4-mans, roll a bunch of pugs, then brag about being elite.

whats difficult is carrying an entire team of 11 other ******* by yourself. thats what impresses me.

Right. Which is why pre-mades win every match they drop in right? So tell me, you are one of Mud's alts, or are you cut from the same mental cloth?

Henry Morgan, on 30 January 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

Welcome to the wonderful Catch-22. Screen shots, and things like specifics fall into the "name and shame", and thus get pulled. The funny part is, when caught in one of the lies, the screen shot was first claimed to be "edited". Until others spoke up about also witnessing the same behavior. Then it was "I don't recall" doing it. Until, that is, the posts were knocked down for violating the name-and-shame policy. Once knocked down and no longer able to be viewed, the new claim/lie was "it never happened".

Reporting appalling in-game behavior apparently does not much. Or the tolerance bar for bad behavior is set way too high by PGI.

Either way, their actions (or lack of) pretty much told me what customer they value, and they lost out on at least 1 more heroic mech purchase (Hunch, I like mediums) and a Clan Pack purchase, and premium time player. PGI seems to want the bad behavior player to stick around, which is fine as it's their game. I can also choose to spend my money elsewhere, which I've done.

Which is why I mentioned the irony of the claims/lies by a player who gets up on their soap box claiming to be for the 'casual' player. When, in fact, their actions (as well as PGI's lack of) are responsible for driving paying customers away to other games.

If they don't allow naming and shaming threads, why would you expect them to do it? Also, you can't expect a report to get someone banned unless you provide absolute proof. Otherwise I could just email them a report saying you were on NGNG's TS server and called me names and threatened to kill me and poof you are gone. So they have to investigate and seek corroboration.

The biggest problem is people not reporting issues, or reporting BS.

On the other hand, not every player will be retained, nor is it worth while to seek to do so. Diminishing returns and all that.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Someone is taking it hard....

[Sandpit]

Nick Makiaveli, on 30 January 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

The biggest problem is people not reporting issues, or reporting BS.

^This

[Mudhutwarrior]

Sandpit, on 30 January 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

^This

Nope. The issue is the many busy bodies who clog the reporting system with bogus or lightweight claims. I bet more than half is from someone who never read the rules and the rest who want to use them as a club. Racism, Team killing or out right cheating probably in the single digits and should be the ones dealt with.
I have to get a kick out of people so easily offended on the Internets. Like it means something in the whole scheme of things.

[Sandpit]

Nick Makiaveli, on 30 January 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

The biggest problem is people not reporting issues, or reporting BS.

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 January 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

Nope. The issue is the many busy bodies who clog the reporting system with bogus or lightweight claims. I bet more than half is from someone who never read the rules and the rest who want to use them as a club. Racism, Team killing or out right cheating probably in the single digits and should be the ones dealt with.
I have to get a kick out of people so easily offended on the Internets. Like it means something in the whole scheme of things.

Do you read or just post on principle?

[Sandpit]

I do cringe every time I hear or read "They're hacking! I died! Nobody is THAT good"

[Mudhutwarrior]

Sandpit, on 30 January 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

Do you read or just post on principle?

First sentence people not reporting....

That not the problem by far... so my Nope stands.

[RG Notch]

Sandpit, on 30 January 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

^This

No the biggest problem is PGI's indifference to reporting. If they cared about in game exploiting they would do what many games of this type do and add an in game report button. Asking people to write down names and go outside the game to file reports is lazy. People have asked for this from the beginning and at one point PGI said they would add it. Of course like a lot of things players ask for and other games have, it's apparently beyond PGI's ability or it's not really a concern.
Of course as usual, some folks want to instead place the burden on the players for issues that PGI has been told about and at one point even acknowledged. Adding an in game report button would speed up the identification of problem players.

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 January 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

First sentence people not reporting....

That not the problem by far... so my Nope stands.

but ignore the second part of the same sentence...?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Sandpit, on 30 January 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

but ignore the second part of the same sentence...?

Perception is reality.

[-Natural Selection-]

Little over 15 years ago the Gaming Gods came down and said to me, "We give you this group of people to join with. Go with them to fight others who we will force to play alone. They will never be allowed to join with friends and utilize group tactics as said games were designed. You and your friends will be the chosen few, use this power to go out and make their gaming life miserable."

I am sorry if you were not also chosen, but the few of us that were will try to go easy on you.

[Navy Sixes]

Khobai, on 30 January 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

whats difficult is carrying an entire team of 11 other ******* by yourself. thats what impresses me.

Running a little medium, that's really hard for me to do. Maybe some can, but I'm not there yet. What I can do, and when I pull it off I'm pretty happy with myself, is find that moment when I can tip the scales and execute. You know, that point when you've slipped down 2 mechs, the company is in shambles, and you can feel the match drifting away? I love it when I can position myself to turn it all around. When it happens, I'm usually not the last mech standing, or even the mech that got the most damage/kills. There will invariably be a Jenner or Atlas in the end that will clean up and get all the "carry hard" glory. But I know that there was a moment when it was 7-6 their favor, and before my Blackjack fell I made it 6-5 ours.

It's a beautiful thing.

[Henry Morgan]

Nick Makiaveli, on 30 January 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

If they don't allow naming and shaming threads, why would you expect them to do it?

Oh I don't disagree with the name and shame threads. However, you were asking about specifics, and it really couldn't get into specifics without crossing into the name and shame area. I was pointing out specifics couldn't be provided without violating the forum rules.

Nick Makiaveli, on 30 January 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

Also, you can't expect a report to get someone banned unless you provide absolute proof. Otherwise I could just email them a report saying you were on NGNG's TS server and called me names and threatened to kill me and poof you are gone. So they have to investigate and seek corroboration.

The biggest problem is people not reporting issues, or reporting BS.

I would think screen shots and video capture would be in the area of 'proof' (nvidia Shadowplay is handy). And it was behavior and statements that if duplicated in the forum, would be modded pretty quickly.

Nick Makiaveli, on 30 January 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

On the other hand, not every player will be retained, nor is it worth while to seek to do so. Diminishing returns and all that.

True, and that is PGI's choice to make. However, as was mentioned earlier, the 'casual' player isn't going to tolerate certain actions (or lack of) over time. The casual will simply take their money and spend it elsewhere. And PGI can decide if that is a demographic they want to keep or not. However, I just found the hypocrisy of someone else claiming to be 'looking out' for the casual players, when in fact their behavior is that which drives casuals away (as well as PGI's lack of action), interesting.

[Mudhutwarrior]

http://psychology.ab...uroticneeds.htm