190 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

RamsoPanzer, on 22 March 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

The guy who wrote this post is right, all the ret***** replying are the same lrm-noobs as always, trying to defend a thing that has no reasonable defense.

Yep, that's me, the inveterate Commando pilot in his Troll-LRMando defending his domination of the game.

Or, could it be that all the whine threads are exaggerating immensely and the game isn't falling down around us? That the change actually was a good one that more experienced players recognize as such? That it has brought back tactics, team-play, and a tiny measure of brain-work needed to actually do well?

Here's some free advice, courtesy of the USMC: Improvise, adapt and overcome.

[DodgerH2O]

Just because this one is at the top of the list as of the moment I'm checking, I'll reply to this particular thread, though I should reply to all of them...

I'm with the few who aren't seeing this "LRM Meta". Sure I've only played a handful of matches but each one since the patch has had about 4 LRM users (maybe boats, maybe not), 2 on each side. That's about an infinite amount more than I'm used to pre-patch (0 on each side, maybe 1 LRM 5 boat) but hardly overwhelming. I AM seeing a lot more TAGging and NARCs for my team's boats, but that's about it.

The one round I took out my LRMer (An AWS-8R) was inconclusive. Yeah I got 4 kills and nearly 600 damage, but we also rolled the enemy 12-0 because they were just that terrible, nothing to do with OMG LRM OP.

Maybe I could make a new account and see if the lower ELO is suffused with LRMs, I dunno?

[Fut]

MischiefSC, on 22 March 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

It's added tactics to the game, not removed them. Quit getting pissed and start re-evaluating. It's more depth, not less.

This ^...

[Nick Makiaveli]

RamsoPanzer, on 22 March 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

The guy who wrote this post is right, all the ret***** replying are the same lrm-noobs as always, trying to defend a thing that has no reasonable defense.

Really? He just said that every match where people played smart they won, and when they acted stupid they died.

Sounds like the game is fine. It's the players that need a buff.

But sure, go ahead and whine....run tell your mommy the big bad mean people on the intarwebz were rude to you. Maybe she will make you milk and cookies.

[Black Arachne]

LRM meta...funny - the DAKA is still strong - and pulse lasers are still crap.

Edited by Black Arachne, 22 March 2014 - 02:51 PM.

[Kjudoon]

OP LRMPOCALYPSE QQ RAGE QUIT COUNTER

6

Edited by Kjudoon, 22 March 2014 - 02:56 PM.

[No Guts No Glory]

Current LRMs actually turned this into a thinking mans shooter.

[H Seldon]

Unfortunately for me, I've been stomped quite a few times today (the week had great matches). But mostly from ACs and 200+ ton weight differences. Only one match today did I get slaughtered by LRMs, I was at a really bad spawn point on river city and my pug lights left me (was in a highlander). Couldn't get to cover fast enough and lost most weapons before I could fire a shot (they had a good amount of ECM so LRMs were useless). And we had only 3 assault (1 was a disco) with the rest being a few jagers and lights. The other team had 9 assaults with 3 being DDC. No one broke 200 damage with most under 100. I did 18, my 3 lb-10x shots at long range .

It's just going to take a while for people to figure out new strategies. Like I said, the week had some of the best matches I've had since closed beta. Today has been horrible but I'm guessing it's those people that only play on the weekends messing things up.

And that's the other thing for me, I'm carrying 1 to 2 LRM10s on my highlander. I've had about 2 matches where teammates had tag or narc. I've been tagged or narc'd more often than that. Talk about bad luck.

Edited by H Seldon, 22 March 2014 - 03:18 PM.

[wolf74]

I have been a LRM Mech Pilot back when:

LRM had a Range of 630m VS L-Laser 900
ECM Came out an Total Blocked any type of Lock-on and there was No Counter other than another ECM.

Other that Streak-2, LRMs No other Weapon system is Totally shutdown if you don't have any Friendly ECM or BAP or TAG or NARC on your team.

Now that the LRM pilot go some Love, All the PPC-(What Ever) Meta can stuff it for a few weeks a let the LRM pilots have a Little fun too in game.

[Zoid]

This is exactly my issue too. It's not hard to adapt, but if I wanted to play Counterstrike, I'd play Counterstrike. You have to stay in cover ALL the time because if someone locks onto you, you'll suddenly have 3+ missile boats unloading on you from cover, so you can't even fight back.

It's not a matter of "I got killed by LRMs and didn't like it" it's "Hiding all the time doesn't feel like Mechwarrior to me". Games right now are basically decided by who wanders into the open first and gets LRMed down.

I think it needs to be harder to launch LRMs from cover, so you can't just get a lock from one ally and then dump hundreds of missiles into a target. As hilarious as it was to run with an LRM boat together with a fast ECM spotter, it was really stupid since the boat could just sit in cover the entire game.

Edited by Zoid, 22 March 2014 - 04:46 PM.

[Sandpit]

stjobe, on 22 March 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

Yep, that's me, the inveterate Commando pilot in his Troll-LRMando defending his domination of the game.

Or, could it be that all the whine threads are exaggerating immensely and the game isn't falling down around us? That the change actually was a good one that more experienced players recognize as such? That it has brought back tactics, team-play, and a tiny measure of brain-work needed to actually do well?

Here's some free advice, courtesy of the USMC: Improvise, adapt and overcome.

No, it couldn't POSSIBLY be people just QQing because their favorite mech and build now has to be adapted to a weapon that performs on par with every other weapon in the game.
Oorah Devil

Zoid, on 22 March 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

As hilarious as it was to run with an LRM boat together with a fast ECM spotter, it was really stupid since the boat could just sit in cover the entire game.

Not if you use a little teamwork and have a couple of your own fast light mechs that go in and force those LRM boats to move and stop firing round after round.

[LordLosh]

shit is broken say what you will but it feels just like WOT were you just hide because you knew if you got out from cover arty would light you up much like this LRM bullshit. no more $$ from me until they address this problem and QQ or whine or call it what you want but this is insane all LRM's all the time. I'd gladly take the jump jet pop tarting over this shit.

[Zoid]

Sandpit, on 22 March 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

Not if you use a little teamwork and have a couple of your own fast light mechs that go in and force those LRM boats to move and stop firing round after round.

Then the assault mechs who have also been forced to camp with their team's LRM boats (to avoid being LRMed to death themselves) quickly annihilate the lights. If a light tries to do anything other than pure spotting for an LRM boat, they get destroyed quite quickly because everyone's camping in one location. At least this is what I've seen in every single game where people have tried to use lights to counter missile boats.

Again, it's not a matter of "they can't be countered" it's a matter of "I don't like to play Campwarrior." No one's (at least no one who is not a noob) is arguing that they're impossible to counter, just that this does not feel like Mechwarrior to us. It is really starting to remind me of what ruined Mech4 online, you could use third person perspective to have your guns trained on someone while in cover so it became either camp and poptart or die to camping poptarts.

Edited by Zoid, 22 March 2014 - 05:43 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Feels like Mechwarrior to me.

[Sandpit]

Zoid, on 22 March 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

Then the assault mechs who have also been forced to camp with their team's LRM boats (to avoid being LRMed to death themselves) quickly annihilate the lights. If a light tries to do anything other than pure spotting for an LRM boat, they get destroyed quite quickly because everyone's camping in one location. At least this is what I've seen in every single game where people have tried to use lights to counter missile boats.

Again, it's not a matter of "they can't be countered" it's a matter of "I don't like to play Campwarrior." No one's (at least no one who is not a noob) is arguing that they're impossible to counter, just that this does not feel like Mechwarrior to us. It is really starting to remind me of what ruined Mech4 online, you could use third person perspective to have your guns trained on someone while in cover so it became either camp and poptart or die to camping poptarts.

Nope,

2-3 LRM support mechs, 2-3 scouts, the rest taking whatever you want and have an ecm mech or two in there. That's a minimum of 6 attackers, 2 scouts, and 2 support mechs. A team made up like that (hence teamwork) will tear up an enemy team like what you're talking about. It will do it quite well but, again, that's not possible to do with PGI's group limitations, lack of lobbies, in game voip, etc.
LRMs are on par with every other weapon out there now.
If I do 1000 damage in my 5LL Stalker or 4LL Bmaster I get congratulated.
If I do 1000 damage in my 50 tube LRM boat I get told I have no skillz and LRMs are op

Don't use the "yea but they're easy to use because of indirect LoS" or any other rhetoric like that. because they require their own skill set. One could make the same kind of argument against any other tactic. Poptarting is a popular one to use. People claim it takes no skill or it's boring, etc. to use that tactic.
People also say the same thing about sniping and peeking and poking
and ecm
and ssrm
and anything else they can blame.

I can link you to any number of threads that say exactly that. You can just look through the 15 threads on the front page and find them. Whether you personally or saying that or not doesn't show that wrong and I'm not personally accusing YOU of anything. I'm pointing out what many are saying.

Again, teamwork is what counters tactics. Teamwork and coordination are "op" though. That's been the real issue. Weapons put every player on equal footing. You can employ the same weapons and tactics, you can build "counter" mechs to specifically takeout specialized teams, you can build balanced mechs that can provide support in different roles. THAT'S how you counter an enemy team's tactics.

You don't do that by nerfing a weapon every time a weapon gets changed. All they did was increase the speed of them a bit. That's it. They made them more effective in getting on target. They also increased the range of AMS by a bit to help compensate for that. Increasing the speed was pretty much universally agreed by most in what they needed most. Now they do just as much damage as any other weapon set now. Instead of adapting and changing tactics (which makes no sense because I can show you just as many "change the meta" threads as "nerf this" threds every time something gets buffed and they helped curb the meta with this) or having to adjust their favorite build to carry AMS now, they'd rather come here and hope they can moan loud enough that PGI yet again nerfs something.

[Koniving]

Dazzer, on 22 March 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

So why am I unhappy ? because this is not mechwarrior ! It´s more like a game of Sniper elite with every one hiding behind a hill taking pot shots and scarpering from cover to cover. Some times a brave few will try to close the ranged and normally get gunned down for they trouble.

thank you to all the players I have had fun with since BETA.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

Unfortunately you described the game as a result of the following harrowing changes:
Repair and rearm freebies (instead of a proper re-conception of how it works and what it charges -- Note: Percentages always give exploits!)
Repair and rearm removal.
Armlock.
Lag compensation (Host State Rewind).
Removal of 1 second delayed convergence (the final straw for pinpoint).

LRMs aren't causing the problem you're seeing. They are simply yet another symptom.

Too much damage is dealt too fast.

Example: An AC/2 is supposed to deal 2 damage within 10 seconds. As is an MG, and a flamer. The AC/2 deals 38 damage in 10 seconds.

AC/20 is supposed to do 20 damage within 10 seconds. It deals 60.

LRMs? Well let's just say if you could only fire them once in 10 seconds no one would cry.

Dividing damage to be dealt over time like that would allow us to go back to single armor and structure and yet manage to stay alive longer. Considerably longer. Even if you doubled the speed of weapons to deal their damage and handle their cooldowns of most of the DPS-style weapons within 5 seconds, and the pinpoint weapons (PPCs and Gauss Rifles) within 6 to 7 seconds (taking a page from MW:LL there) you'd still live longer with single armor and structure (that is to say an Atlas having the health of an MWO 'double armor' Hunchback). It'd also allow more of a delay between LRM salvos to make them really feel like missiles (because without a change to their actual damage, they'll be twice as effective but fire half as often thus removing spam).

Ah well.

Edited by Koniving, 23 March 2014 - 10:38 AM.

[Zoid]

Sandpit, on 22 March 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

Nope,

2-3 LRM support mechs, 2-3 scouts, the rest taking whatever you want and have an ecm mech or two in there. That's a minimum of 6 attackers, 2 scouts, and 2 support mechs. A team made up like that (hence teamwork) will tear up an enemy team like what you're talking about. It will do it quite well but, again, that's not possible to do with PGI's group limitations, lack of lobbies, in game voip, etc.
LRMs are on par with every other weapon out there now.
If I do 1000 damage in my 5LL Stalker or 4LL Bmaster I get congratulated.
If I do 1000 damage in my 50 tube LRM boat I get told I have no skillz and LRMs are op

Don't use the "yea but they're easy to use because of indirect LoS" or any other rhetoric like that. because they require their own skill set. One could make the same kind of argument against any other tactic. Poptarting is a popular one to use. People claim it takes no skill or it's boring, etc. to use that tactic.
People also say the same thing about sniping and peeking and poking
and ecm
and ssrm
and anything else they can blame.

I can link you to any number of threads that say exactly that. You can just look through the 15 threads on the front page and find them. Whether you personally or saying that or not doesn't show that wrong and I'm not personally accusing YOU of anything. I'm pointing out what many are saying.

Again, teamwork is what counters tactics. Teamwork and coordination are "op" though. That's been the real issue. Weapons put every player on equal footing. You can employ the same weapons and tactics, you can build "counter" mechs to specifically takeout specialized teams, you can build balanced mechs that can provide support in different roles. THAT'S how you counter an enemy team's tactics.

You don't do that by nerfing a weapon every time a weapon gets changed. All they did was increase the speed of them a bit. That's it. They made them more effective in getting on target. They also increased the range of AMS by a bit to help compensate for that. Increasing the speed was pretty much universally agreed by most in what they needed most. Now they do just as much damage as any other weapon set now. Instead of adapting and changing tactics (which makes no sense because I can show you just as many "change the meta" threads as "nerf this" threds every time something gets buffed and they helped curb the meta with this) or having to adjust their favorite build to carry AMS now, they'd rather come here and hope they can moan loud enough that PGI yet again nerfs something.

I'm really not interested in arguing anymore but you pretty much proved my point there. This is almost entirely PUG games and you are saying the solution to LRMs is to have a very balanced team with very specific roles.

Meanwhile, all the LRM boats need to shred people is just one person getting a target lock. That's it. If you're more than 4 seconds away from serious cover and someone targets you, you're gonna have a bad time.

So basically, your options are:
1. Assemble a strong and balanced team and coordinate very well.
2. Camp like crazy.

One of these is actually doable for the majority of the playerbase.

[Sandpit]

Zoid, on 22 March 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

I'm really not interested in arguing anymore but you pretty much proved my point there. This is almost entirely PUG games and you are saying the solution to LRMs is to have a very balanced team with very specific roles.

Meanwhile, all the LRM boats need to shred people is just one person getting a target lock. That's it. If you're more than 4 seconds away from serious cover and someone targets you, you're gonna have a bad time.

So basically, your options are:
1. Assemble a strong and balanced team and coordinate very well.
2. Camp like crazy.

One of these is actually doable for the majority of the playerbase.

Nope
I'm saying teamwork and coordination dont' make a weapon "op" any more than an entire lance doing less than 100 damage because they all rambo in and play stupidly makes you or your w/l record a reflection of individual skill. There's no correlation there.
Just because a team uses a weapon effectively in a coordinated manner doesn't mean it's "op". Can you go 1v1 against a missile boat in a mech of equivalent size and win most times? If so, it's not "op" because an "op" weapon is "op" regardless of the how it's used. That's what "op" is. "Op" isn't only "op" when it's used en masse by an entire team. THAT'S the point

You want to play as a solo lone wolf with no regard to your team and using teamwork yet you're complaining that a team that DOES do that should have a weapon nerfed because it's "op" when they use it effectively

[MischiefSC]

If I go back to poptarting (I'd rather slap my wedding tackle across the face of a rabid badger) and I get ambushed by a light mech I can still cap him. Easily in fact. I liked to keep some SSRMs on my Victor just for it. If I get caught by a light in an LRM boat I need help or I'm likely to die.

Take a look at the top tier folks on the board for the challenge. Poptarts, pretty much every one of them. A few lights in there. Directfire is still top meta.

LRMs are competitive now. if they dropped 10 or 20 off the speed it'd still be competitive, but they're competitive now. It's easy to use, hard to use successfully or effectively.

Load AMS, stick with your team, think ahead. It's not that difficult.

[Rhent]

LordLosh, on 22 March 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

shit is broken say what you will but it feels just like WOT were you just hide because you knew if you got out from cover arty would light you up much like this LRM bullshit. no more $$ from me until they address this problem and QQ or whine or call it what you want but this is insane all LRM's all the time. I'd gladly take the jump jet pop tarting over this shit.

Quoted from a poptarter.