1126 replies to this topic

[Craig Steele]

Bhael Fire, on 17 April 2014 - 12:32 AM, said:

Just so this thread stays on topic and doesn't get sidelined by troll posts:

This is the general proposal:

SOLO ONLY

• Only solo players
  
• No groups

GROUPS + SOLO

• Groups with 2-12 players and Solo players that have opted-in*
  
• MM tries to match groups 1:1 starting with the largest groups first
  
• Then tries to find 1-2 equal or smaller groups to fill in any gaps (if any)
  
• Any leftover spots are filled with 1-2 solo players per team
  
• Max of 3 groups per team
  
• 1-2 solo players maximum per team (to minimize PUG stomps)**

* Solo players that have opted-in for group+solo would drop in the solo only queue most of the time but would be on stand-by and used for filler when the MM needed to fill in any odd gaps in the groups+solo queue.


** This number can be tweaked based on actual tests.

I prefer

PUG QUEUE

• Solo players
  
• Small groups (2 & 3 man) capped at one per side

TEAMPLAY QUEUE

• Groups with 2-12 players and Solo players that have opted-in*
  
• MM tries to match groups 1:1 starting with the largest groups first
  
• Then tries to find 1-2 equal or smaller groups to fill in any gaps (if any)
  
• Any leftover spots are filled with 1-2 solo players per team
  
• Max of 3 groups per team
  
• 1-2 solo players maximum per team (to minimize PUG stomps)

So as small groups (2&3?) can also have faster MM times, better mech selection opportunities / usage and the Solo PUG player experience is protected from stomps.

[Bhael Fire]

[HUNTERS MOON]

Opus, on 16 April 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Once again you have reinforced that Lone Wolfs are.... Ummm...

how did you put it to me back in Early Beta, Paul

""Cannon Fodder for House units"" as you put it....

and something about long walks on beaches alone....

Regardless: We at the Lone Wolfs Website, are proving you wrong every damn day,

Now with this installment that places Single pilots as second class members of MWO .....

I am still at odds with your choice of words and treatment of Solo players

Please don't start the dev's crying again..

[PappySmurf]

RENEGADEMOON (Please don't start the dev's crying again..)

Im sorry but I don't fell bad for the dumb ******** at all? Not after 3 years of driving off millions of players with there bad decisions and taking 5-8million dollars from players and fans then using it for developing a different games. MWO is a plain and simple FPS that is repetitive and redundant with no true creativity except the Art department. Here is what they should have done from the start of early closed beta and now there down to there last few paying consumers there starting to listen 3 years later.

#1 A true character to play in the BT/MechWarrior Universe=This was built into the game engine from the start they chopped it out.

#2 A PVE system with tutorials and PVE gameplay for new players.=Was told this in closed beta?

#3 A pug/solo matchmaking system without groups.=Was told this in closed beta?

#4 A separate group system with lobby's and private matches.=Was told this in closed beta?

Much more could be said but the dumb ******** in the top office are still deaf and dumb.


In some ways I wish they=PGI?IGP would have taken the blue pill not made MWO and another company made a true MechWarrior title.

But instead we the fans and players took the red pill and believed in PGI/IGP and are still regretting it.

Edited by PappySmurf, 17 April 2014 - 07:12 AM.

[Stunner]

If you guys could actually allow faction dropping this would fix things for a lot of people as well. Many factions have faction voice servers where a group could organize even if you don't have the programming expertise or resources to allow larger than 4 man groups.

Seems like the sooner you get community warfare started the better off you would be.

[Kotzi]

You want to play with your friends? Get into private matches. You want to adjust the most simple options? Pay for premium time. I see where this is going.

[Mark of Caine]

I would definitely welcome the option of dropping in a group queue solo. I have taken very long breaks from this game because of the forced option of pugging. Even though I may or may not be able to communicate with an 11 player team, at least I can observe their coordination and adapt to their methods. I'm pretty good at doing that in just about any weight class.

And furthermore, as you can no doubt tell, I'm a founder with premium time banked (which includes the premium time that came with both legendary founder and overlord project phoenix). I've got 7 months of PT banked, and have yet to find a single reason to activate it. Why? Because this game is far from being what was originally envisioned: that being ROLE WARFARE.

When every single player can do just about every single role in almost every single mech, then what's the point of role warfare? I know I'm off topic here, but I'm a very frustrated paying customer. Even though it's not in my signature, I'm adhering to N.O.P.E. policy, and it actually breaks my heart a little. I'd love nothing more than to spend some of my money on those Clan mechs, and some of the hero mechs, camo patterns and colors (couldn't care less about cockpit items), but the way the development of this game has gone on is shameful.

Hire new management, before it's too late. This matchmaker fiasco is just one more nail in this coffin, and I don't want this game to die so soon.
Maybe a little dramatic on my part, but that's just the way I've felt for nearly a year now.


(Sandpit, feel free to add my post in your long growing list of people who want to join group queues as a solo player)

[Grumman]

I think what we are really missing in the pug matches is integrated voip and a hierarchy where the most experienced players are automatically placed as team and lance commanders and they can give up command if they choose. I think that would even out the group advantaged significantly. Even give points to people who follow commands.

[N0MAD]

Public/Single Player Queue

• Solo players
  
• 2-4 man groups. 1 group per team as it is now.

Group Queue

• Allows 2-10 man groups.
  
• Groups can only play against other groups.
  
• No solo players.
  
• Match Maker will not make a team of 11 players
  
• Probability of longer wait times for teams to be built.
  
• Cannot incorporate exact tonnage matching like the other queues.

Private Matches

• 2-24 players by invite only.
  
• Can set game options/restrictions.
  
• Used for competitive X vs Y players

Now that you see what is planned and the edge cases surrounding implementation of a group only queue, we’re still deciding when this important feature would fit into our development schedule.

So, lets see.
Solo Q.
Same as we have now, and since 84% of players are solo there will be enough teams to fill in the one group.

Group Q.
This is the Q we dont want you to play in, besides there isnt enough groups left (84% solo players) and we are going to make it hard for you to use this Q, no tonage limits, long wait times, restrictive matchmaker. So dont complain about this Q when you have to wait long time for a match and get matched up vs 12 Jump snipping Highlanders, you have been warned.

Private Matches.
This is where we want you few teams that are left to play, you want to play as a team and want a few game options? then pay, what you thought this was FTP?, no you wana play our team game as as team? its now PTP.
Then there is this as a final sentence..

Now that you see what is planned and the edge cases surrounding implementation of a group only queue, we’re still deciding when this important feature would fit into our development schedule

Is this telling you that they definitely dont want the Group Q and that it wont be there at release of the Launch Module?
Guess my investment in the 325i and Constellation were well warranted.

Edited by N0MAD, 17 April 2014 - 04:47 PM.

[Roadbeer]

N0MAD, on 17 April 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

Guess my investment in the 325i and Constellation were well warranted.

300 series is SEXY, bought my 300i when it was said there wouldn't be rewards in the Premium Private Matches and no large group support in Launch Module
Guess who didn't get my monthly gaming budget, Timberwolf, that's who

Edited by Roadbeer, 17 April 2014 - 04:54 PM.

[Sam Slade]

Roadbeer, on 17 April 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

300 series is SEXY, bought my 300i when it was said there wouldn't be rewards in the Premium Private Matches and no large group support in Launch Module
Guess who didn't get my monthly gaming budget, Timberwolf, that's who

ha! I got myself an LTI Superhornet and I'm looking a an Idris... then my wife goes and gets me a Timberwolf to make up for taking the piss out of my gameing habit at a dinner party... she was really angry when I remonstrated with her for giving money to PGI ("What the **** is a PGI! I'm going out! Buy your own ***ing gifts!"... she was so angry that that tirade made me laugh).

But yes, money goes elsewhere (going to name my Timberwolf 'Bitchgift')

[Xavier]

I generally agree with you restrictions for group drop only and I don't have a problem with any of your approaches but aas far as when it should be incorporated I think it must be a consideration for launch with CW the whole point of CW would be for larger groups to drop together for the purpose of improving the status of their house/clan. Group drops must be available for CW or you risk alienating players who want to group up and state that thier house/clan is the ultimate.

[Opus]

N0MAD, on 17 April 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

Guess my investment in the 325i and Constellation were well warranted.

Yes, I bought the same package, I am super excited

AND!! I am willing to spend more at RSI due to their exceptional community involvement and open discussions

unlike well ....... PGI/IGP

[DirePhoenix]

Bhael Fire, on 17 April 2014 - 12:32 AM, said:

Just so this thread stays on topic and doesn't get sidelined by troll posts:

This is the general proposal:

SOLO ONLY

• Only solo players
  
• No groups

GROUPS + SOLO

• Groups with 2-12 players and Solo players that have opted-in*
  
• MM tries to match groups 1:1 starting with the largest groups first
  
• Then tries to find 1-2 equal or smaller groups to fill in any gaps (if any)
  
• Any leftover spots are filled with 1-2 solo players per team
  
• Max of 3 groups per team
  
• 1-2 solo players maximum per team (to minimize PUG stomps)**

* Solo players that have opted-in for group+solo would drop in the solo only queue most of the time but would be on stand-by and used for filler when the MM needed to fill in any odd gaps in the groups+solo queue.


** This number can be tweaked based on actual tests.

Wait, whose proposal is 'the' proposal? Is this PGI's? Is this what "the community" is proposing? Is this Bhael's proposal?

I'd prefer something like this:

12-MAN ONLY (FULL COMPANY)

• Only full companies of 12 players

GROUPS + SOLO (REGULAR/MIXED COMPANY)

• Groups with 2-11 players and Solo players
  
• MM tries to match groups 1:1 starting with the largest groups first
  
• Then tries to find 1-2 equal or smaller groups to fill in any gaps (if any)
  
• Any leftover spots are filled with solo players
  
• Max of 3 groups per team

I don't think it's deniable that larger groups have an advantage. A full company (12-man) will have an advantage over two 6-mans or three 4-mans or four 3-mans or six 2-mans or even one 11-man + one solo. So 12-man groups should be fighting other 12-mans. If a group doesn't have enough for a full company, they jump in the regular/mixed company queue.

If they are an 11-man group, they will get a solo player to join their team and will preferably be matched against another 11-man group plus a solo. If a matching 11-man + solo cannot be found, they will be matched with a 10-man plus a 2-man group or 2 soloers, etc.

[Hordamer Mendelbaum]

Its clear that it's basically impossible to predict beforehand whether or not a new feature is a net improvement to the game. Can I make the following suggestion as to how features should be rolled out?

1. Implement the feature, but make it so that users can "opt-back" to the original functionality.
2. After the community has had a chance to explore the feature, look at your telemetry: are users adopting the new feature?
a. If the strong majority of users have transitioned to the new feature, success! Abandon the old feature.
b. If adoption of the new feature is weak, solicit feedback. ("Dear Community, we notice that only 5% of groups are dropping in the new Group Queue, and the rest remain in the old Public Queue. What is it that you guys don't like about the Group Queue?")
c. If users continue to use both features to a reasonable extent, success! Keep both.

While some features (like balance changes) shouldn't be optional, I find that many past "improvements" resulted in changes to the game that I wish I had been able to not participate in. For example, I want the old assault mode back, based on how gameplay has evolved on the new assault mode. But, without a way to keep participating in the old mode, there's no way for the me (along with the community) to let the development team know through real statistics that I feel that way. The only method that the dev team currently has to get my feedback is through the anecdotal (i.e. statistically invalid) method of reading my shrill forum posts.

Until the take-it-or-leave-it method of feature roll out is discarded, each new feature update is a gamble on whether or not portions of the remaining community will be alienated by it. Of course, this is just yet another shrill forum post.

[Roland]

DirePhoenix, on 18 April 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

Wait, whose proposal is 'the' proposal? Is this PGI's? Is this what "the community" is proposing? Is this Bhael's proposal?

I'd prefer something like this:

12-MAN ONLY (FULL COMPANY)

• Only full companies of 12 players

GROUPS + SOLO (REGULAR/MIXED COMPANY)

• Groups with 2-11 players and Solo players
  
• MM tries to match groups 1:1 starting with the largest groups first
  
• Then tries to find 1-2 equal or smaller groups to fill in any gaps (if any)
  
• Any leftover spots are filled with solo players
  
• Max of 3 groups per team

I don't think it's deniable that larger groups have an advantage. A full company (12-man) will have an advantage over two 6-mans or three 4-mans or four 3-mans or six 2-mans or even one 11-man + one solo. So 12-man groups should be fighting other 12-mans. If a group doesn't have enough for a full company, they jump in the regular/mixed company queue.


If they are an 11-man group, they will get a solo player to join their team and will preferably be matched against another 11-man group plus a solo. If a matching 11-man + solo cannot be found, they will be matched with a 10-man plus a 2-man group or 2 soloers, etc.

The full 12 man queue is a waste of time. Just let the 12 mans play with the rest of the groups.
A 12 man team has no significant advantage over an 11+1 team.

Having a separate queue will do exactly what it does now... get used by virtually no one, and create a point at which it ends up being a pain to play cause you have to disrupt gameplay to switch queues.

It also results in this situation where more casual groups will specifically avoid playing with a full set of 12, because the 12 man queue is "too serious" and they "just want to have fun".

Separation of some portion of the game from the other is generally bad. The only real exception to this is the solo queue, since it can clearly be made even, and leaves ALL of the grouped players in a single bin.

[SweetJackal]

DirePhoenix, on 18 April 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

Wait, whose proposal is 'the' proposal? Is this PGI's? Is this what "the community" is proposing? Is this Bhael's proposal?

I'd prefer something like this:

12-MAN ONLY (FULL COMPANY)

• Only full companies of 12 players

GROUPS + SOLO (REGULAR/MIXED COMPANY)

• Groups with 2-11 players and Solo players
  
• MM tries to match groups 1:1 starting with the largest groups first
  
• Then tries to find 1-2 equal or smaller groups to fill in any gaps (if any)
  
• Any leftover spots are filled with solo players
  
• Max of 3 groups per team

I don't think it's deniable that larger groups have an advantage. A full company (12-man) will have an advantage over two 6-mans or three 4-mans or four 3-mans or six 2-mans or even one 11-man + one solo. So 12-man groups should be fighting other 12-mans. If a group doesn't have enough for a full company, they jump in the regular/mixed company queue.


If they are an 11-man group, they will get a solo player to join their team and will preferably be matched against another 11-man group plus a solo. If a matching 11-man + solo cannot be found, they will be matched with a 10-man plus a 2-man group or 2 soloers, etc.

Simple problem that means I cannot support your opinion: Players that want to drop solo are forced into a team environment, meaning that players that don't want to work as a team are dragging the the team experience down.

Allow Solo Players the choice to play with groups or play in a Solo Only queue.

[Chemie]

Do any of you really think Paul reads this?

He posted twice now saying "it will be my way" and does not even drop by the "feedback thread" to say "nothing good here". He really did not want any feedback.

[Bhael Fire]

DirePhoenix, on 18 April 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

I don't think it's deniable that larger groups have an advantage. A full company (12-man) will have an advantage over two 6-mans or three 4-mans or four 3-mans or six 2-mans or even one 11-man + one solo. So 12-man groups should be fighting other 12-mans. If a group doesn't have enough for a full company, they jump in the regular/mixed company queue.

In the GROUPS+SOLO proposal below, 12-mans would only be matched up with other 12-mans (or in worst case scenarios, an 11-man plus one solo). So, essentially, the GROUPS+SOLO queue is also the 12-man queue. That's the whole point; it accommodates groups of all sizes equitably (i.e., that's what 1:1 matching means in the description).

Bhael Fire, on 17 April 2014 - 12:32 AM, said:

This is the general proposal:

SOLO ONLY

• Only solo players
  
• No groups

GROUPS + SOLO

• Groups with 2-12 players and Solo players that have opted-in*
  
• MM tries to match groups 1:1 starting with the largest groups first
  
• Then tries to find 1-2 equal or smaller groups to fill in any gaps (if any)
  
• Any leftover spots are filled with 1-2 solo players per team
  
• Max of 3 groups per team
  
• 1-2 solo players maximum per team (to minimize PUG stomps)**

* Solo players that have opted-in for group+solo would drop in the solo only queue most of the time but would be on stand-by and used for filler when the MM needed to fill in any odd gaps in the groups+solo queue.

** This number can be tweaked based on actual tests.

[King Arthur IV]

38 pages... here is some bunnies!



so if we cant stop 3333, what happens next?

Edited by King Arthur IV, 18 April 2014 - 05:58 PM.