1126 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

BLOOD WOLF, on 14 April 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

stop making stuff up. Also we know its coming as they have been on track with development this year(THIS YEAR, stop making excuses).

well then give me a release date (since you know you accuse death of making stuff up)
no release date?
ok, how about estimated release?
hmmm, no estimate?
ok, how about roadmap?
hmmm, no roadmap?
ok, how about an estimate of where it's at in the development phase at least?

oh, you mean there isn't one? Please tell me again how anyone is making stuff up?

[Roadbeer]

Malorish, on 14 April 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

Where's CW? That's worth freaking out over....

But needing a certain group size to que for group oriented combat? That's not worth the freak out we're seeing here . . .

Stands to reason that you'd actually WANT to have large group queue for CW, because if the thought of Lone Wolfs and Solo Faction players determine the fate of your House/Clan's success doesn't chill you to the bone...

Whatever...

"In a dystopian future, where billions have died over petty squabbles and territorial disputes, comes a hero to right those wrongs and fight for the honor of his once proud House..."
"Hello! Why aren't my Medium Lasers hitting that guy over there that's a kilometer away?"

[King Arthur IV]

Sandpit, on 14 April 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

yea because PGI is great about listening to polls. 3pv anyone?

well give me a poll anyway.

why ask "choose one" questions and not put up a poll.

[Sandpit]

Roadbeer, on 14 April 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Stands to reason that you'd actually WANT to have large group queue for CW, because if the thought of Lone Wolfs and Solo Faction players determine the fate of your House/Clan's success doesn't chill you to the bone...

Whatever...

"In a dystopian future, where billions have died over petty squabbles and territorial disputes, comes a hero to right those wrongs and fight for the honor of his once proud House..."
"Hello! Why aren't my Medium Lasers hitting that guy over there that's a kilometer away?"

It's just quite apparent that PGI/Paul could give a crap less about groups. Since THEY don't use it, and it's not part of THEIR "vision", it's not important. At least THEY can enjoy THEIR game. Meanwhile many will enjoy someone else's game because it's beyond their "resources" to do simple, rudimentary systems that every MMO for the past 10 years has been capable of doing.

I'm seriously going to start a thread that has nothing but quotes from players saying they want the exact opposite of what Paul seems to think they want

[CeeKay Boques]

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Basically this. This thread is proof that even if you give people exactly what they want, some people are still going to find something to whine about.

"Here, have more options."

"YOU'RE USING THE WRONG FONT TO TELL US ABOUT THESE OPTIONS!" /ragequit

...

Then again, font is serious business. You can troll people very easily by just posting in comic sans.

This literally happened on page 8, 146th post.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Deathlike, on 14 April 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

Yes, tell the people who went to the launch party that PGI never said that. That'll go over well.

Last I checked, "HPG" is still a "new map", 4 months later.

I never said they never said that.

You still stuck in luanch?; They never unlocked the door to let you out?

[Sandpit]

King Arthur IV, on 14 April 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

well give me a poll anyway.

why ask "choose one" questions and not put up a poll.

because it would show that Paul was basically a royal douche in his post. I've never seen a dev act so condescending outside of EA. I mean seriously, that wasn't even an attempt to win over anyone, it was just "No groups, I know what's best for you, listen to me, now go buy a clan pack and shut up"

I just don't get it. I've said it about PGI before but it becomes more and more apparent each day. They have a vision for the game and paying customers be damned, they're not going to adjust that vision. They'll act real concerned about it, post a "hey we'll look into it a year from now" type thread, then continue with what they've been doing.

I don't care what anyone says, this game is nowhere near as successful as it COULD be if they'd start listening a bit more and stop thinking they know better than their customers.

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Basically this. This thread is proof that even if you give people exactly what they want, some people are still going to find something to whine about.

"Here, have more options."

"YOU'RE USING THE WRONG FONT TO TELL US ABOUT THESE OPTIONS!" /ragequit

...

Then again, font is serious business. You can troll people very easily by just posting in comic sans.

Dude, just stop.

You're a pretty intelligent guy. You know as well as I do that Paul's post said and did NOTHING to say ANYthing even remotely along the lines of "We heard you, we're going to do something"

Paul said "We can't do it, we're not going to change it. We MIGHT sometime down the road look into a few ideas we've talked about"

Do NOT act like that said "Hey, we're going to allow you to play in groups" because NOWHERE in that post did he say anything even remotely close to that

[CeeKay Boques]

Sandpit, on 14 April 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

because it would show that Paul was basically a royal douche in his post. I've never seen a dev act so condescending outside of EA. I mean seriously, that wasn't even an attempt to win over anyone, it was just "No groups, I know what's best for you, listen to me, now go buy a clan pack and shut up"

I just don't get it. I've said it about PGI before but it becomes more and more apparent each day. They have a vision for the game and paying customers be damned, they're not going to adjust that vision. They'll act real concerned about it, post a "hey we'll look into it a year from now" type thread, then continue with what they've been doing.

I don't care what anyone says, this game is nowhere near as successful as it COULD be if they'd start listening a bit more and stop thinking they know better than their customers.

I actually believe this is because the devs believe that the old guard is ruining their chances for getting the mysterious "Young/Teen FPS player whos mom rolls in cash".

I believe that most in the dev meeting are advocates for this player, because no one here seems to care about him because you're so selfish with what you want with your mechin'.

Much is done for this player. Much is advocated for this player, because he is the future, his money is accrued for in the budgeting, but he doesn't seem to be playing or paying, and if the old guard would stop asking for the moon, they could instead give you all the things they've been preparing for his arrival.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Roadbeer, on 14 April 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

I think an obvious solution to this would be for the teams created to be of even numbers.
It's infinitely easier to find 1 more than it is to find 8 more to create the next team level. While this still has the potential for the "odd man out", I think it would be more desirous than "odd lance out" and the perpetual attempts to sync drop.
Plus even numbers would make it easier to create 12 than a smattering of odd numbers.

I see where you are going with this, but two odd groups make an even one.

I prefer the option to allow solo players to drop in the Group queue. Perhaps only allow a difference of 1 between sides. IE 11 man group vs 10 man group. Add a solo to the 11 and either a 2 man group or 2 solos.


@Paul This is a perfect example of how a short comment from you guys could go a long way toward easing the tension. I am not stupid, but I never thought of the issue of 11 man groups in a group only queue. A short comment to the effect of this is one of the problems we ran into and more to come.

StaggerCheck, on 14 April 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

Paul, with all due respect, who cares if the matchmaker makes a 12 v 11 match in the group only queue? They're all most likely on voice coms, anyway, so wouldn't that be 10x better than throwing groups against PuGs from the outset of this game? So what if the match ends up being one 11 man team versus a team consisting of a 4-man, 2-man and 6-man group? Perhaps you should poll the players to see how they feel about a change like that.

Good news, at any rate.

Good point. We drop 11v12 sometimes anyway, so not like it's never happened before. Besides, I would bet that someone would offer to sit out or rotate out to keep it at 10. At least that's how the DHB would likely roll.

[Sears]

I'd join a group queue as a solo player. Especially if it's an opt-in queue so you'd only get the solo players in there who wanted to be there. Could possibly tie it to ELO, so that the player has to have over a certain amount to even opt-in.

If we get better in game communication for teams, command wheels and voip ect ect then even if a team did have 11 player team +1 vs 12 it would still be better than having just 11 players.

If anything it adds a bit more flavour to the lone wolf gun for hire vibe.

[Deathlike]

BLOOD WOLF, on 14 April 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

I never said they never said that.

You still stuck in luanch?; They never unlocked the door to let you out?

I'm fine thanks. I bet CW will make an "appearance" someday in 2014, but it will be woefully incomplete and probably just phase 1. Heck, I've set my expectations so far back that realistically the entire thing will be "complete" by 2015-2016. "Complete" is "just enough to call it CW" and not much more.

Sandpit, on 14 April 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Do NOT act like that said "Hey, we're going to allow you to play in groups" because NOWHERE in that post did he say anything even remotely close to that

If you ever paid attention closely to Heffay, you will know that he will troll you like that. So, I suggest you pick your fights where it is warranted, as he will play very sly/misdirected semantic games with you.

[PappySmurf]

Here is my total beef with PGI/IGP All they had to do at the beginning of closed beta was make the MM like it is now with 2 PUG groups and ELO. Then for the players that wanted to play groups and private matches and leagues just recreate the MechWarrior4 Mercenaries Multiplayer system how FUUCKING hard it that to do? Duhh 2 total separate drop systems.

These guys over at http://mwolobby.com/ built a whole lobby system in what less that 6 months? It just shows me how much I wont pay into a game I cannot play in groups with my friends.

[moneyBURNER]

Dimento Graven, on 14 April 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

I agree some of the decisions seem silly not to make. There's a lot issues that 'appear' to be what's known in the industry as 'low hanging fruit', quick and easy to fix items not requiring a lot of resources, but seem to linger on and on and on and on for years (cancel button for searching for a match comes to mind as a prime example).

There's a lot about this game that is brilliant, that it's very frustrating to see it suffer from a thousand foolish cuts.

Quote

Flamers are hard to make worth a damn, and translate well, in an RTS MMO where someone could theoretically boat Flamers to switch off enemies by over heating them.

A minor issue, like so many others, but how hard can it be? Flaming entails the risk of continuous, close-range exposure. It can be further balanced by weight/fuel/recharge time/number limit, etc. If they're destined to be useless, then fine, but not in the stupidest way possible by making them overheat the player using them!

Edited by moneyBURNER, 14 April 2014 - 02:16 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

Would love to see this instead (a slight variation on the existing plan):

Solo Queue

• Solo players only
  
• No Groups

Group Queue

• Allows 2-12 man groups.
  
• Solo players can chose to drop in the group queue with "Hazard Pay" bonus (by default this is turned off)
  
• Probability of longer wait times for teams to be built.
  
• Cannot incorporate exact tonnage matching like the other queues.

Private Matches

• 2-24 players by invite only.
  
• Can set game options/restrictions.
  
• Used for competitive X vs Y players

[Zolaz]

Yo Paul ... why not give that solo player an incentive to play in the team match game? You know like more c bills. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

[Bhael Fire]

Zolaz, on 14 April 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

Yo Paul ... why not give that solo player an incentive to play in the team match game? You know like more c bills. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

See the post above yours.

I'd call it a "Hazard Pay" bonus...

[Evil Ed]

I don't see the need for different queues. I suggest a slider instead where solo players can inform the matchmaker about preferred maximum number of players in premades joining them in matches. If I as a solo player don't want 11-player premades in my game - I just set a slider to prevent that (and by doing so punish the 11-premades and myself in some degree with longer queuing times). If I as a solo player don’t want any premades at all I set the slider to 1. If I'm fine with premades in some degree I set the slider to for example 5. If no-one or just a few wants to play with/against them (by telling the matchmaker so by using sliders) they will get prolonged wait or no matches at all - and can’t blame PGI for that.
There is way too much shoehorning and guestimates going on about the matchmaking when PGI tries to find a model that attract as many players as possible. Instead the players should have a few sliders and few different weight class distributions to select/deselect (let's take the ones form MRBC as an example: 8/4/0/0, 4/4/4/0, 2/4/4/2, 2/0/4/6 an maybe a couple more) together with the game mode options each player can create their own experience. If a player is very specific the prize will be longer waiting times, if the player goes any there will probably be a match in a few seconds.

Edited by Evil Ed, 14 April 2014 - 02:22 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

As a player who mostly plays 12-mans these days (and basically hates pugging) I would love to drop in solo in the 2-10 group queue to fill the spots. Organized drops are the reason I love this game, not the chaotic pew pew in the pugs. As some other like minded players have stated, I would really love if you gave us the option to drop in to the group queue to fill a missing spot. People who would drop solo in this queue would be team players anyway and would know how to handle themselves in organized drops.

Also I feel a bit sad losing the normal 12-man queue. It was fun to drop in and just see who we got against us. Change tactics depending on the opponent. But don't get me wrong, the private lobby is awesome! Thank you PGI! But if people on our contacts are not available at certain time, we might looking at very long waiting times on the group queue with 10 people just waiting for a random 2-man to get in. Allowing solo players who want to drop in that queue would theoretically remove this problem.

[Sandpit]

Sears, on 14 April 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

I'd join a group queue as a solo player. Especially if it's an opt-in queue

tell me again how players don't want or need this Paul.....

smh

Bhael Fire, on 14 April 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

• Solo players can chose to drop in the group queue with "Hazard Pay" bonus (by default this is turned off)
  

Know why I'm collecting these types of posts? Well I'm glad you asked! It's because I'm sick and tired of devs stating stuff like "they don't want it" or "it wouldn't be good" when you have tons of players (THAT'S PAYING CUSTOMERS PGI IN CASE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I MEAN BY PLAYERS) who state the exact opposite and stand in direct contradiction of devs saying this like what Paul stated.

Evil Ed, on 14 April 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

If I as a solo player don’t want any premades at all I set the slider to 1. If I'm fine with premades in some degree I set the slider to for example 5.

Yet again....

ugrakarma, on 14 April 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

I would love to drop in solo in the 2-10 group queue to fill the spots. Organized drops are the reason I love this game, not the chaotic pew pew in the pugs. As some other like minded players have stated, I would really love if you gave us the option to drop in to the group queue to fill a missing spot.

and again...

So everyone except Paul apparently can notice this trend....

I'm willing to bet I can show Paul a dozen or so page thread with no duplicates that says the exact same thing and that's just from one guy quoting a few players from various threads with no resources and no easy way to just pull that data in unlike PGI.

Edited by Sandpit, 14 April 2014 - 02:25 PM.

[Evil Ed]

Sandpit, on 14 April 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Yet again....

Sure, the best games I can have when I'm solo is when both teams have two skilled premade 4-mans. I didn't expect this to be breaking news. And if I join a 11-man premade I'd probably ask for Teamspeak info and join them, and maybe make some new friends in the process...

Edited by Evil Ed, 14 April 2014 - 02:29 PM.