1443 replies to this topic

[Roburn Bliss]

Sooooooo, how does it play?

[Vassago Rain]

Roburn Bliss, on 04 June 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

Sooooooo, how does it play?

Pretty well, but there's a lot of things to learn and get used to it. It doesn't help that you can't rebind controls right now, but we're rall managing fine.

There are sub systems in SC that seem more complicated than all of MWO.

[Punkass]

Roburn Bliss, on 04 June 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

Sooooooo, how does it play?

Right now, invert mouse doesn't seem to work, so no matter what I do, up is up and down is down. While it's not my preferred method of play, it plays pretty well with control pad. As Vassago said, no rebindable controls yet. Not very friendly when you're dogfighting and you accidentally click off g-safe or decouple

[Gremlich Johns]

Heffay, on 04 June 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

This is their alpha release. Rumor is that it's working for some people, so I probably just need to wait for a patch, reinstall, or something like that. Can't wait!!

You are incorrect, this release is their stated "PRE-ALPHA" release.

You must not have read any of the information or the disclaimer or agreement you digitally signed that said that is what it is.

No rumours, it is working nicely. (remember to first get the green square targeting reticle before you start firing your weapons. Missiles are a little extra, you'll see.)

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 04 June 2014 - 06:04 PM.

[ShinVector]

Ok now got to figure out how to get good in this game...
I TOTALLY forgot joystick hand cramps from the good old days of X-wing Vs. Tie Fighter until yesterday !
Shooting down stuff even with auto aim is still difficult on the joystick... But easier to fly your ship.

On the hand it is much easier to kill stuff on the mouse due to free look + Auto aim... This will probably prove to be a balance issue in future.. But of course it is harder to fly a space with Mouse and KB.

Edited by ShinVector, 04 June 2014 - 06:15 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Muahahahahahaaha. Star Citizen is teh rox0r!!!!!!

All these years of playing FreeSpace 2 Open have paid off. Woooooooooo. Full HOTAS support, Stick, Pedals, Rudder.

Now if only I could get Track IR working right using freepie... if only I knew how to change this line in Python:
toggle = keyboard.getPressed(Key.Z)

To press the "Tab" key.

[Sybreed]

ShinVector, on 04 June 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Ok now got to figure out how to get good in this game...
I TOTALLY forgot joystick hand cramps from the good old days of X-wing Vs. Tie Fighter until yesterday !
Shooting down stuff even with auto aim is still difficult on the joystick... But easier to fly your ship.

On the hand it is much easier to kill stuff on the mouse due to free look + Auto aim... This will probably prove to be a balance issue in future.. But of course it is harder to fly a space with Mouse and KB.

well, in X3 they handled the mouse vs joystick issue by making your type 2 weapons auto-converging on your target if you could aim the lead indicator with your joystick. When you used the mouse, you had to aim for the lead and do everything yourself, no targetting computer to help you. I hope CIG do something like that.

Edited by Sybreed, 04 June 2014 - 07:45 PM.

[Goosfraba]

ShinVector, on 04 June 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Ok now got to figure out how to get good in this game...
I TOTALLY forgot joystick hand cramps from the good old days of X-wing Vs. Tie Fighter until yesterday !
Shooting down stuff even with auto aim is still difficult on the joystick... But easier to fly your ship.

On the hand it is much easier to kill stuff on the mouse due to free look + Auto aim... This will probably prove to be a balance issue in future.. But of course it is harder to fly a space with Mouse and KB.

M+KB is the way to go, at least for now.

[Heffay]

Well, bad news for the Star Citizen modding community. CIG has decided to encrypt the scripts.pak file to make client side hacking more difficult. *sigh* No more Disco Lando videos!

Client side authentication...yeah. Let's see what their commitment to the modding community is now.

[Egomane]

Heffay, on 05 June 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

Well, bad news for the Star Citizen modding community. CIG has decided to encrypt the scripts.pak file to make client side hacking more difficult. *sigh* No more Disco Lando videos!

Client side authentication...yeah. Let's see what their commitment to the modding community is now.

That's easy to understand! If a user is modifying his game files, any problem he encounters might be because of that manipulation. If those problems are reported, the developers start hunting ghosts in an attempt to fix them, which cost time and therefore money.

If the files are locked down during development, any problems that come up are not because of amateurs tampering with the files in a way they weren't supposed to be used.

There was more then one moment when I wished the same were true for MWO.

After the development, when the game is in a release state, the encryption can be removed and the game becomes fully modable once more.

[Heffay]

Egomane, on 05 June 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

That's easy to understand! If a user is modifying his game files, any problem he encounters might be because of that manipulation. If those problems are reported, the developers start hunting ghosts in an attempt to fix them, which cost time and therefore money.

If the files are locked down during development, any problems that come up are not because of amateurs tampering with the files in a way they weren't supposed to be used.

There was more then one moment when I wished the same were true for MWO.

After the development, when the game is in a release state, the encryption can be removed and the game becomes fully modable once more.

There are 2 different solutions they could take towards this; signing the .pak files and encrypting them. For all the other .pak files, CIG just signed them. For the scripts.pak file, they encrypted it. There is stuff in that file that they specifically don't want people to see. Unfortunately it screws up with the ability for people like Disco Lando to make his most entertaining videos, and fan sites that rely on xml files in that .pak no longer have access to update their websites. Effectively it's the same thing as MWO locking down the files that Smurfy uses for his website.

I don't know if MWO does either, but in theory they could just sign their .pak files and that is all it would take to prevent client side modifications during gameplay. CIG took the nuclear option, most likely because they are going client side authentication.

[Roburn Bliss]

After watching some Twitch and Youtube vid's I'm glad I threw my money behind Elite: Dangerous. I like my targeting sights fixed dead centre. I'm not a big fan of the chase the mouse pointer autopilot. It will give the mouse player a massive advantage in PvP.

Edited by Roburn Bliss, 05 June 2014 - 02:26 PM.

[Iqfish]

Roburn Bliss, on 05 June 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

After watching some Twitch and Youtube vid's I'm glad I threw my money behind Elite: Dangerous. I like my targeting sights fixed dead centre. I'm not a big fan of the chase the mouse pointer autopilot. It will give the mouse player a massive advantage in PvP.

*cough* first ever version of the game, not even Alpha *cough*

Seriously, what is wrong with people?
They stated a million times that is is only a scratch of the original game, that EVERYTHING you see is in-dev, that things like flight models, loadouts, HUDs, etc. are ALL subject to change.

This is like the basic framework of one aspect of the game, the dogfighting.

And from my PoV it's a clever step to lock down basic balancing for the basic ships and weapons before adding more to the game (right, PGI? Clan Weapons? .

Just sit down and wait for 0.9, it's the same like with MWO.
Noone forces you to hype the game or spend money on it, but please use common sense.

[Ecrof]

Warning Cryengine is a giant netcode T U R D! They should make a new engine, or at least use a different one. With all the money and time they have had the alpha should be much further along, they cant even master basic net code. So far the devs are just farting perfume. 15 million lines of code for a half baked mini demo.

Edited by Ecrof, 05 June 2014 - 03:47 PM.

[Lindonius]

Comparing Elite Dangerous Alpha 1.0 to SC AC 0.8 and I think it's 1 - 0 to Mr Braben.

It looks like they're gonna dumb it down for the casual mouse player.

[Sybreed]

Ecrof, on 05 June 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

Warning Cryengine is a giant netcode T U R D! They should make a new engine, or at least use a different one. With all the money and time they have had the alpha should be much further along, they cant even master basic net code. So far the devs are just farting perfume. 15 million lines of code for a half baked mini demo.

oh dear, posts like this makes me want to punch a kitten. Yeah sure, they already spent millions on building SC on Cryengine, smart move would be to go from scratch on a new one right? God, reading this is insulting. How can you tell they can't master basic netcode? There's no MP yet and the reason is that THEY'RE BUILDING THE NETCODE FROM SCRATCH.

[Goosfraba]

Iqfish, on 05 June 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

*cough* first ever version of the game, not even Alpha *cough*

Seriously, what is wrong with people?
They stated a million times that is is only a scratch of the original game, that EVERYTHING you see is in-dev, that things like flight models, loadouts, HUDs, etc. are ALL subject to change.

This is like the basic framework of one aspect of the game, the dogfighting.

And from my PoV it's a clever step to lock down basic balancing for the basic ships and weapons before adding more to the game (right, PGI? Clan Weapons? .

Just sit down and wait for 0.9, it's the same like with MWO.
Noone forces you to hype the game or spend money on it, but please use common sense.

People are gonna ***** no matter what. The game could be the best thing since Pac Man and you bet somebody is gonna post a rant about how much it sucks, that is not ready, that the player base was "betrayed" etc.

Its noise, and there is nothing better to do with it than ignore it or turn it off. Enjoy the game, have fun. Who ******* cares what some random person on the internet thinks.

[Iqfish]

Goosfraba, on 05 June 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

People are gonna ***** no matter what. The game could be the best thing since Pac Man and you bet somebody is gonna post a rant about how much it sucks, that is not ready, that the player base was "betrayed" etc.

Its noise, and there is nothing better to do with it than ignore it or turn it off. Enjoy the game, have fun. Who ******* cares what some random person on the internet thinks.

Oh thats a personal problem of me, I care WAY TOO MUCH what people think.

If I see someone wrong, no matter what, I feel the urge to tell him that he is wrong and what is right.

I know, I know, it's annoying.

[Vassago Rain]

So I've been playing this, and looking at heavy gear, partaking in the great river of joysticker tears, probably sparked the WAR between mice and sticks (mouseketeers), got around to sit down with RE4... What's the rest of you been up to?

[Roburn Bliss]

An interesting post over on the SC forums:

https://forums.rober...eived-as-bad/p1

Quote

Hello all,
although this may seem one of the usual "flight model is bad" threads, I would like to explain why, in my opinion, the flight model is GREAT, but does not meet the expectations of many.
Most joystick users complain about lag input and overcorrection.
That is true, both exist.
Why?
Because CIG implemented perfectly the thruster system, and how it is handled by the IFCS
There is lag because the maneuvering thrusters, being gimbaled, have to turn to the appropriate direction, and need a little time to pass from zero to full thrust.
There is overcorrection because the pilot, feeling the delay, pushes harder, requiring even more power from the thrusters - and this extra power then means that when the input is ended, the ship still moves as thrusters need to spool down. Basically, we have a case of pilot induced oscillation
http://en.wikipedia....ced_oscillation

This is not so much a problem with a mouse, since there you are telling the IFCS where you want to go, and the IFCS calculates the correct vectoring of thrust to orient your ship. Basically, your are telling the computer "point my nose towards that asteroid"
With a joystick on the other hand, your are not telling the IFCS where you want to go; you are providing him inputs of pitch,yaw,roll. YOU, the pilot, is the one that must calibrate his input to make sure he stops turning when his nose is pointed at the asteroid.
And this requires getting used to.
I do feel that the maneuvering thrusters need a shorter reaction time, as currently it makes precise maneuvers very difficult. But this is, I believe, something that can be fine-tuned easily by CIG. Increase thruster gimbal rate and shorten time needed to go from zero to full thrust, and you improve overall handling of the ship.
Therefore in my opinion the flight model is not "bad", but perhaps too realistic, and actually easier to use with a mouse, than a joystick, at least for part of the population

TL:DR
i do not perceive the flight model to be bad, but it needs tuning to increase ships response, especially for joysticks

So, Joystick / keyboard only users have to contend with pitch, yaw, roll and aim. Mouse users only need worry about aim.

They are going to find it very hard to balance these two control methods. I hope with further testing they decide to have mouse controls mimic joystick controls as they did with Freespace, Tie Fighter, Wing Commander etc.