21 replies to this topic

[JonahGrimm]

Okay, guys - no, I'm not new. I'm so not new it hurts...

But I am new to heavies.

I regularly pull 400+ damage games in my beloved lights - even my 'heavy raven' and trollish Locust-with-an-ER-PPC builds. I can run my trebuchets and bludgeon PUGs with all sorts of crazy builds, and am starting to get that way with Griffons and have tried (and enjoyed) Hunchbacks.

But I cannot, for the life of me, do anything heavier than 55 tons or so.

I stick with the group, I work in order, I hug cover - I'm even trying out Quickdraws with their oversized engines (and I do like them, oddly enough!) and cannot seem to get any real success with them. In most matches, I do under 100 damage and fall over as soon as the enemy makes contact with our main group.

Sometimes, I admit, I get overextended - playing lights, you have wiggle room when you end up in the wrong place, and I recognize that I do make that mistake on occasion.

Other than that... what am I doing wrong?

[MalodorousMonkey]

It's hard to say for sure without having seen you play, though, I will say that getting overextended in a heavy is a death sentence in many cases, unlike with lights.

Also bear in mind that you can't peek out if cover to take a quick shot as effectively as you can in a light. You're a bigger target, slower, and have a lower acceleration/deceleration rate.

Besides that, I would have to see you play. Shoot me a friend invite in game sometime and we can play a few. (Though, I can't guarantee when I'll be able to play this weekend.)

[kiriage]

For a start you're a much bigger target, and carrying a heavier payload so it makes you more of a priority in regards to target acquisition, your size makes it that much easier to hit you. I don't play lights much(at all), but Id imagine the armour distribution on heavies would be different from what you are using on your lighter mechs. Timing and positioning are very important in the heavier mechs, making mistakes is pretty unforgiving in these regards, it takes a while to get used to where and when to best inject yourself into the battle. My advise would be to sit back a little, the extra firepower you are carrying is worth more to your team than the extra armour, take a little more time to see what's happening on the field before you commit to getting shot at. Having a couple of extra hands work with you in a fire group can be very discouraging to opponents looking for an easy target. Dunno, Im not an expert by any means but these things seem to work for me.

[Redshift2k5]

I can't stand playing Heavies that are not maxing out their speed&firepower with an XL engine. The amount of free tonnage supplied by an XL makes a big difference, especially whern that tonnage is spent to bring in an engine of even higher rating. The speed and responsiveness of a fast heavy makes it worthwhile.

I'm not afraid to be in the front with my Orions, but as you transition from a Light you probably need to really try to be more cautious- you're a bigger target and much less maneuverable so it's harder to move from cover to cover or come around a corner, shoot ,and fade back.

It's entirely possible anything less rensponsive than a Light may not suit you at all, I know that I personally am much more comfortable in an xl300 Catapult than in an xl300 Jenner. Wouldn't hurt to share your builds and tactics.

[opcow]

Welcome to the other side, that guy pullin 400 damage in his light is the one plinking away at you now
I've started moving up from Meds to Heavies now, and have noticed I attract alot more attention. Try to be as incognito as you can (I've noticed the CPLT attracts alot more attention than the TDR), stand next to something bigger.
I'm convinced that piloting heavies turns the game from "tactical mech combat in the 31st century" to a game of "how many tons of military hardware can you hide?"

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

as everyone has said already, Heavies are a different beast, and the way of playing lights does not translate to them.

As mentioned, the peek & shoot method will always result in you getting pounded more and probably crit'd quick enough.

It boils down to your mech and loadout, and if you're using it properly. Problem with being a heavy or assault brawler, you can dish out a lot of pain (my Atlass DDC has a ridiculous Dmg Rating & Alpha shot), but if you're not aiming said shots, it's all for nothing.

As a light you have the luxury of running around and just blasting away, but in a heavier mech, firstly you need to torso twist to protect your CT, this is a technique which has saved me in many a brawl (admittedly in the heat of the moment I have forgotten to do so, and subsequently died).

If you're using AC or Lasers, I suggest practice in the training grounds. Work on the different mechs and their hit boxes with your load out.

I did this with my Atlas's and it's improved my surviveability, since I'm no longer just firing everything and just assuming because I have a ton of weaponry to do damage that It means everytime I shoot the guy infront should keep over. When I am careful and take my time with my shots, i get anywhere from 2-6 kills a match and 500 damage. When I'm sloppy and just clicking away, 0 kills, 2-4 assists and I'm dead pretty quick.

that said it's a crap shoot. Some games you're going to get flank'd, and all you can do is try and dish out as much pain before they rip you apart.

Have fun.

[Furiel]

The best advice I can give you with a heavy is patience. Both heavies and assaults play differently once you have them elited compared to when you are still skilling them up. It's much harder to pop out, snipe, then duck back under cover in a heavy than it is in something lighter because of the slower accel/decel and larger size in general. Positioning is more important as well because it takes you longer to reposition if needed so you have to think ahead more.

Depending on what mech you are using as a heavy you are either direct or indirect fire support so staying with the group as you have been doing is the right move. But even though you are a 60-75 ton death machine you should never be in front. That's what your Banshee's, Stalkers, Atlas, and Battlemasters are for, assuming they are not running LRM builds. Try to be in the second rank. Don't always run full speed when moving with the group, this is how you end up overextended. Again...I can't preach this enough...patience. Especially since you are saying you keep overextending yourself. I had the same problem when I first started with my heavies, I thought all that extra armor, etc would allow me to stand up and slug it out with people. It doesn't help that much. Stay back, move with the group and let the action come to you rather than you going out to try to find it, because that's how you get killed.

[sathoon]

I suspect it's mostly down to the fact that heavies are pretty big turkeys compared to lights, and attract almost as much attention as actual assault mechs.

Heavies are generally juicy targets for reasons already described, though size is probably the elephant in the room. Mean a dragon isn't really that much smaller than a highlander or battlemaster, and has noticeably less armour despite the emphasis on it (compared to it's heavier brothers and sisters).

Lights can be a headache to go after in something sluggish. It feels like a waste of time and energy trying to get a spider skirting what passes for a formation in a PUG, to stay in my Atlas's reticule and is a waste of firepower. That thunderbolt on the other hand is large, cannot escape once it commits to an attack, easier to snipe with long range weapons and the tonnage difference is instantly against it. Perfect.

Heavy mechs seem to bring the firepower but can never quite fit the armour and engine unless it's XL, and let's face it: side torsos are easier to break than the centre torso. Suddenly the most sure-fire way to survive is to pretend you're in a giant spider with no jump jets because while you love shooting things unmolested, when 2 or more mechs of any weight start shooting back, armour starts disappearing uncomfortably fast.


Playing heavy mechs is like going commando: fun until you get caught with no underwear on.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Also realize that your ELO score will be messed up for awhile whenever you start a new weight class. The key lesson I think I saw here is "patience." Heavies are not frantic, constantly on the move mechs. Take your time, play smart. Stay with others, find a priority target of similiar tonnage if possible, and try to disarm/destroy it. Start scanning the field for weakened mechs and focus on them when the opportunity presents itself. You have the firepower to take them out entirely much more quickly.

[Koniks]

What loadouts are you using?

[SaltBeef]

You answered the riddle yourself. In a heavy you do not have the freedom of travel that you are used to with the smaller harraser mechs. You must stick with the group and team up on enemy mechs as much as possible do not try to one on one them as much as you can. Help engage the already engaged mechs. While you are learning the new mech style let others lead the fight but follow closely and assist with the killing .
Heavies need agility... so don't skimp on the engine too much Assaults can get away with it.

Edited by SaltBeef, 09 May 2014 - 09:03 AM.

[CCC Dober]

Idk mate. Since we can't see what you do in battle, asking us what can be done is like throwing darts blindly.

Personally speaking, I treat Heavies like Assault Mechs that are a bit more mobile, but also more squishy. The key difference to me is that you can disengage and relocate with a Heavy more easily, which has its uses, but comes with certain responsibilities. With a Heavy you can do what Assaults cannot afford to do because they are either too slow to react or the team depends on their services at critical locations.

[SilentScreamer]

JonahGrimm, on 09 May 2014 - 04:23 AM, said:

Okay, guys - no, I'm not new. I'm so not new it hurts...

But I am new to heavies.

Sometimes, I admit, I get overextended - playing lights, you have wiggle room when you end up in the wrong place, and I recognize that I do make that mistake on occasion.

Other than that... what am I doing wrong?

To add my two cents, and as sathoon mentioned, it's not just what you are doing. The other team is also treating you differently based on what they percieve your threat to be. Light and Medium mechs can get away with lot of things a Heavy and Assault mechs can't because the other team is willing to let the pilot get away with it. This concept applies to specific mech frames too. FOr example, I will typically shoot at a Dragon before a Quickdraw and a Jagermech before a Thunderbolt. Perceived threat differs from frame to frame even with identical loadouts.

Hang in there, it will take time but you will adjust.

[Buckminster]

Another factor to consider is your Pilot Skills. Especially in a heavy, getting all of those unlocked and doubled makes a HUGE difference. Especially if you are jumping from Mastered lights to unskilled heavies, it's a big adjustment.

[Unnatural Growth]

And at least at first, while you're getting the hang of it, I would recommend maxing out your armor, and seriously consider staying with STD engines for now. It will help you be less squishy. But even then you can't get away with a bad decision like turning down that canyon alone, or just blazing out there in the open for all to see. If you get focused on, you're dead.

Running a heavy, and especially so running an assault, you violate the basic covenants of combat:

Try to look unimportant.

If you are a heavy, or assault, you are important. The enemy knows this, and will give you extra special attention.

[Takashi Uchida]

What specific chassis are you using (besides Quickdraw)? Depending on the mech, heavies can fill a variety of roles from fast striker, to direct fire dps, to brawler, to poptart, to LRM boat, etc.

I don't have any experience piloting Dragons and Quickdraws, but I've heard that the fast skirmisher heavy is a comparatively difficult to play and is not suited to those unfamiliar the weight class. I'm making an assumption here but as a light pilot you may have gravitated towards these mechs.

So, my advice would to choose a heavy which is well regarded by the general population, such as the Jagermechs or the Cataphracts. Now, there is no shortage of "Jag vs Phract" threads on this forum. Personally, I have two of each in my garage (JM6-S, JM6-DD, CTF-3D, Ilya Muromets). All are mastered and lots of fun! In a nutshell, Jagers are more "rangy" and Cataphracts are more "brawly," but there are of course many exceptions and both can do well with a variety of builds and ranges. I wrote a longer post on this here, if you're interested.

If you don't have any already, I recommend getting a hold of a few engines in the 255-300 range (both standard and XL). Specifically, the three engines I have used the most are the 280 standard and xl, and the 300 xl. The Cataphract-3D comes with a 280 xl and the Orion-M comes with a 300 xl, if you are interested in those chassis.

I think the most important thing to remember is that no mech, no matter how big and badass, is going to last for more than a few seconds under sustained focused fire or an LRM100 barrage.

[Buckminster]

Takashi Uchida, on 09 May 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

If you don't have any already, I recommend getting a hold of a few engines in the 255-300 range (both standard and XL). Specifically, the three engines I have used the most are the 280 standard and xl, and the 300 xl. The Cataphract-3D comes with a 280 xl and the Orion-M comes with a 300 xl, if you are interested in those chassis.

Worth repeating. Some of the chassis come with an XL (the Jager-DD and FIrebrand are others), and it's a great way to build up your engine stockpiles. It's tempting to pass on them because they tend to cost more than the non-XL variants, but it's almost always cheaper to grab the engine as part of a mech.

[Koniving]

Mizeur, on 09 May 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

What loadouts are you using?

All these answers and I think that's the first person to actually ask the most important question.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

You are using the wrong heavies

Quickdraw 5K with 6 medium lasers and XL360 should suit light pilot well

[Ursh]

Get in a Jaeger. Put on 3xAC5 with ammo and a couple of med lasers. Point-click-boom at anyone trying to play a balanced build.

After that you can try the other stuff.