238 replies to this topic

[Reitrix]

Aeten, on 11 May 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

Yesterday I got sick of brawling in my HBK-4SP so I figured what the hell - I'll slap some LRM 5s on there in place of the SSRM 2s I'd been using. See if the buff was really that big. Only put 2 3 tons of ammo on the thing.

Never ever approached the battle - never had reason to fire any of my 4 lasers. Simply stood on a little hill near spawn (this was River City Night) and repeatedly fired my missiles.

The result: ~350 damage; 110k c-bills. For doing nothing. Just sitting there and not ever even being shot at. I could have taught my cat how to do this.

The worst part is that my full brawling fit on this mech; 2 LPL, 2 ML, 2 SRM 6 typically does not do this well. I usually do less damage and get less c-bills. Looks like I found my new c-bill farmer. I can't even imagine how much damage you would do with a dedicated LRM boat. Probably break 1000 easily. I mean 2 LRM 5 is not even an LRM fit. It's an afterthought; and yet it rewards 350 damage with no risk to the mech pilot...

[Joseph Mallan]

Aeten, on 11 May 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

Well I can't say I didn't expect the snarky troll comments that ignore the real problem, but if you are going to open your mouth you should at least reference the idea in the thread.

The fact is with LRMs and no other weapon system, I can sit in base semi-AFK and just accumulate damage like a sponge. How is this FPS-style gameplay? This is arcade.

Things an LRM mech generally doesn't need to worry about:

- Heat (if set up by someone with any semblence of intelligence)
- Damage
- Aiming
- Positioning
- Poptarts / alpha strikes

Yet all other mechs do. It's just dumb the way it's set up.

And it was 3 tons of ammo I'm sorry for the typo. I forgot the space in the head I only counted the 2 tons in my center torso.

You are filling the role of Fire Support. Do you feel that Support MUST be facing danger? Your role is aide your team where its needed. You don't do that being in the mix! Try your experiment with LRM15s or 20s. they have a slower recycle time and thus make it more "Challenging" for yourself. They also are more all or nothing than the smaller better spamming LRM5s.

[Reitrix]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 May 2014 - 02:18 AM, said:

You are filling the role of Fire Support. Do you feel that Support MUST be facing danger? Your role is aide your team where its needed. You don't do that being in the mix! Try your experiment with LRM15s or 20s. they have a slower recycle time and thus make it more "Challenging" for yourself. They also are more all or nothing than the smaller better spamming LRM5s.

Nothing like scoring 12 assists 800~ damage in my LRM5 A1. I don't even *want* the kill. I just want to strip as much armor off you as i can while keeping you form being able to easily nuke my friendlies faces off.





And then get called out by both sides for using skill less weapons!! Well fine! I'll take my armor munching missile rains and give them to someone who appreciates them!

[Joseph Mallan]

Reitrix, on 12 May 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

Nothing like scoring 12 assists 800~ damage in my LRM5 A1. I don't even *want* the kill. I just want to strip as much armor off you as i can while keeping you form being able to easily nuke my friendlies faces off.





And then get called out by both sides for using skill less weapons!! Well fine! I'll take my armor munching missile rains and give them to someone who appreciates them!

Best I got was 10 assists and a kill.

You got Time in service with the Military? Murphy's is always looking for a few good players!

[El Bandito]

LRMs are still support weapon. Most kills I got were purely by luck, since I have no way of knowing where my shots will land. In one match in the faction tournament I had stripped 4 mechs from 100% to 30% only to have them all stolen by a PPC+AC5 Victor. All of them. Since he was a high ranked fellow Marik player at that time, I didn't mind it too much, but it showed me just how unreliable it is to actually get kills with LRMs. When I bring a meta mech to battle, a 30% enemy mech is a sure kill in the first Alpha, while my LRM boat does not have that luxury.

In another match, I used indirect fire to help kill a Kintaro that was chasing after our scout. I couldn't kill the enemy but my chain fired LRMs were keeping him disoriented enough to have our Light pilot to finish off the enemy. Our scout thanked me afterwards for the support. I personally felt proud but was also peeved at having the kill stolen by a mere Light.


LRMs are not easy mode, it is inexperienced players that stand out in the open who are easy targets. When I climbed high enough in the Elo bracket with my 733, I constantly faced teams who knew how to use cover. Naturally my contribution dropped enough that I stopped using the cumbersome 733 and replaced it with the meta DS.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 May 2014 - 03:34 AM.

[Kilo 40]

Reitrix, on 12 May 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

Nothing like scoring 12 assists 800~ damage in my LRM5 A1.

I used to get 12 assists fairly regularly. But since they put in that achievement...I can never quite get 12 anymore. Not even on the one the one 1450 point damage game I had.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Honestly 9 times out of 10 lrms are easy mode in pug matches. Against a well versed opponent it is not easy mode in fact you have to work it like any gun mech. Sure I can hit 300 dam most every match in the cat but to really pilot an lrm boat into the 800+ range you have to know what your doing. Its a wholly different style of play than assault. A lot has to do with the team and how they play their missile boats.

Easy mode is when the enemy gets caught in the open but past that when its a team who has multiple ams and ecm its a work out positioning tagging and blasting. Finding a hole between gun boats or parking near ecm and looking for meat isnt always easy. Everyone on the other team is looking to kill you as quick as they can. You have to play like a slow scout most often.
I drive my cat when my vision is terribad most often so it gives me a chance to support my team when i am useless as a gunner or sniper. I can see the targets and play strategy and placement.

If you have an issue avoiding LRMs you need to learn more so its on you.

[Samual Kalkin]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 May 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

Best I got was 10 assists and a kill.

You got Time in service with the Military? Murphy's is always looking for a few good players!

I've pulled several 12 assist games with a TBolt (P), and missed out on a dozen more by getting a 1 kill mixed with 11 assists. It's a challenge to get the 12 assists, without slipping a in a kill.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 12 May 2014 - 03:35 AM, said:

Honestly 9 times out of 10 lrms are easy mode in pug matches. Against a well versed opponent it is not easy mode in fact you have to work it like any gun mech. Sure I can hit 300 dam most every match in the cat but to really pilot an lrm boat into the 800+ range you have to know what your doing. Its a wholly different style of play than assault. A lot has to do with the team and how they play their missile boats.

Easy mode is when the enemy gets caught in the open but past that when its a team who has multiple ams and ecm its a work out positioning tagging and blasting. Finding a hole between gun boats or parking near ecm and looking for meat isnt always easy. Everyone on the other team is looking to kill you as quick as they can. You have to play like a slow scout most often.
I drive my cat when my vision is terribad most often so it gives me a chance to support my team when i am useless as a gunner or sniper. I can see the targets and play strategy and placement.

If you have an issue avoiding LRMs you need to learn more so its on you.

YMMV
In PUG Missiles are (pun intended) Hit or miss. You don't know if your group will hit R and hold lock, you don't know if you will have good screeners to protect you from rushing lights. PUG is a Missile Crap Shoot.

Good to see you back Mud!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 May 2014 - 03:42 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Fired up my Battlemaster LRM/40 yesterday. Good god, yes, LRMs are easy mode right now.

[Karl Streiger]

Rhaythe, on 12 May 2014 - 03:50 AM, said:

Fired up my Battlemaster LRM/40 yesterday. Good god, yes, LRMs are easy mode right now.

Nonsense - LRM are as easymode as poptarters are OP.
All you need to let it work - is a good coordinated team one one side and a not so good coordinated team on the other side.

The LRM boat is worth nothing if there are not guys that hold the line. That don't let anybody slip through.
Same for poptarters - they can't stop a all in assault. not in pugs where there are only 4 coordinated poptarters at once.

[Rhaythe]

Karl Streiger, on 12 May 2014 - 03:56 AM, said:

Nonsense - LRM are as easymode as poptarters are OP.
All you need to let it work - is a good coordinated team one one side and a not so good coordinated team on the other side.

The LRM boat is worth nothing if there are not guys that hold the line. That don't let anybody slip through.
Same for poptarters - they can't stop a all in assault. not in pugs where there are only 4 coordinated poptarters at once.

All good points. It was still a very boring match in that mech that yeilded a metric crap-ton of damage.

[Joseph Mallan]

Rhaythe, on 12 May 2014 - 04:05 AM, said:

All good points. It was still a very boring match in that mech that yeilded a metric crap-ton of damage.

Then Fire Support isn't for you. And thats OK.

[wanderer]

Quote

I've pulled several 12 assist games with a TBolt (P), and missed out on a dozen more by getting a 1 kill mixed with 11 assists. It's a challenge to get the 12 assists, without slipping a in a kill.

Precisely my problem. If I'm getting that many good locks, it's darn tough NOT to kill one of them, even with single LRM racks!

[Rhaythe]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 May 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

Then Fire Support isn't for you. And thats OK.

Oh, I agree 100%. But the game rewards that kind of behavior in very vast dividends; meanwhile, my Jenner NARC unit that only gets 150 damage or so every now and again in a match gets shafted. I very much enjoy the latter game-play, but if I follow the rewards, I should be using my battlemaster build. I guess I'm more or less complaining about role warfare again, but playing that missile-boat really brought the point home for me.

[Joseph Mallan]

Rhaythe, on 12 May 2014 - 04:16 AM, said:

Oh, I agree 100%. But the game rewards that kind of behavior in very vast dividends; meanwhile, my Jenner NARC unit that only gets 150 damage or so every now and again in a match gets shafted. I very much enjoy the latter game-play, but if I follow the rewards, I should be using my battlemaster build. I guess I'm more or less complaining about role warfare again, but playing that missile-boat really brought the point home for me.

I have suggested that a Spotter such as you should be "rewarded" a damage % from allies using your input, (be it TAG, Narc or "R"). Now what that reward should be... I am not sure, but it should reflect the risk YOU take.

[Rhaythe]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 May 2014 - 04:23 AM, said:

I have suggested that a Spotter such as you should be "rewarded" a damage %  from allies using your input, (be it TAG, Narc or "R"). Now what that reward should be... I am not sure, but it should reflect the risk YOU take.

I don't remember what the spotter bonus is, but I think it's along the same lines as NARC/TAG - being you only get one bonus per mech. Which is absurd, if you think about it. I coudl be the only one spotting this Atlas while 4 other teammates pummel him with LRMs - and I get 250 c-bills and 20 XP (or whatever it is). If I were following the rewards, why would I bother? Thankfully, that NARC mech is fun as hell.

[Reitrix]

Rhaythe, on 12 May 2014 - 04:29 AM, said:

I don't remember what the spotter bonus is, but I think it's along the same lines as NARC/TAG - being you only get one bonus per mech. Which is absurd, if you think about it. I coudl be the only one spotting this Atlas while 4 other teammates pummel him with LRMs - and I get 250 c-bills and 20 XP (or whatever it is). If I were following the rewards, why would I bother? Thankfully, that NARC mech is fun as hell.

Really, it should get a scaling "spotting" bonus every time he gets hit by LRMs.
Longer you keep locking that guy, the bigger and better your rewards get.

[Bishop Steiner]

Rhaythe, on 12 May 2014 - 04:05 AM, said:

All good points. It was still a very boring match in that mech that yeilded a metric crap-ton of damage.

shame the damage is usually spread out all over the place, and inefficient at heck. LRM mechs are rarely efficient killers. Running my YLW last night, had 2 matches with 5 kills. Barely over 500 damage in each match. I might get 800-1200 damage in a LRM mech, but half the time I also get 3 kills or less. But it gets people turtling, and my Teammates can then move in, especially against suppressed poptarts and kill them. So while did a lot of damage, it was, as you said, pretty boring, potentially. THough usually if I get to just sit back and lob LRMs, that is the other teams fault.

I have also had some really fun matches where the other team makes my Orion earn it's keep, and run all over the place, trying to keep them from hitting minimum range, while spotting for myself, or trying to maneuver the attacker into an ambush from my team, because my 2 medium lasers simply aren't enough, lol.

But yeah, I pretty much only run LRM mechs in 4 man drops, and then only if we have a Raven or something that would be wasted otherwise. I do find LRMing less satisfying than facegrinding. Spotting would be more fun if the rewards system actually was a little more generous to spotters.

[mogs01gt]

Aeten, on 11 May 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

Yesterday I got sick of brawling in my HBK-4SP so I figured what the hell - I'll slap some LRM 5s on there in place of the SSRM 2s I'd been using. See if the buff was really that big. Only put 2 3 tons of ammo on the thing.
Never ever approached the battle - never had reason to fire any of my 4 lasers. Simply stood on a little hill near spawn (this was River City Night) and repeatedly fired my missiles.
The result: ~350 damage; 110k c-bills. For doing nothing. Just sitting there and not ever even being shot at. I could have taught my cat how to do this.
The worst part is that my full brawling fit on this mech; 2 LPL, 2 ML, 2 SRM 6 typically does not do this well. I usually do less damage and get less c-bills. Looks like I found my new c-bill farmer. I can't even imagine how much damage you would do with a dedicated LRM boat. Probably break 1000 easily. I mean 2 LRM 5 is not even an LRM fit. It's an afterthought; and yet it rewards 350 damage with no risk to the mech pilot...

No, what you did was build a medium mech into a more efficient mech. Brawling with SRM's is not an efficent use of tonnage and will be a struggle with a Medium.