Ok, so there has been a lot of misinformation going around and a lot of complaints of no info about the Clans. There actually has been a boat load of information, just not all located on these forums. At the same time there are still a lot of gaps. Also, the information that is on the forums is scattered, in addition to the external site info. What I have done is consolidated all of the information I have found and supplied sources to back it up. Prepare for a long read, there is no TL:DR. (Majority of sources are linked at the bottom of the post instead of on a per item basis, as this would get out of hand quick.)
- PGI wants to balance clan mechs to within 5 tons of their Inner Sphere(IS) counterparts but keep their unique feel. However they cannot change weight or critical space from Table Top(TT) values as this will break stock configurations. This is per their own words and has held true with IS mechs thus far. Since they are balancing Clan to IS, this means they can keep the 12 vs 12 setup we have now. Even if that breaks canon of Clans working in Stars of 5 instead of Lances of 4. Balanced gameplay takes precedence over lore, to many a fan's dismay. I look at it as an alternate universe, where Clans are equal to IS, and whoever did the bidding kept an extra 2 Points and ditched the remaining 3.
Note: Per VLog#2 12:15 - 13:30 - David states PGI is "aiming to do 12 vs 12 Clan vs IS" and right after Paul says "Yeah we’re actually going to start with the 12 v 12, 12 clan versus 12 inner sphere" However, in NGNG podcast #105 at 24:25 "Russ confirms mixed Omni and Frankenmechs mixed on the same team in pug drops"
In addition, OmniMech rules apply to all Clan OmniMechs as well as any IS OmniMechs they may make in the future. There are also rules that apply to all Clan and IS Mechs, dictating the use of Clan technology.
- Clan Mechs can only equip Clan weapons and equipment.
- Clan 'Mechs cannot equip Inner Sphere technology.
- When customizing a Clan Mech, only Clan technology is shown in the player’s inventory.
- IS Mechs cannot equip Clan technology.
- When customizing an IS Mech, only IS technology is shown in the player’s inventory.
So, how are they going to balance clan tech with IS counterparts? Read on.
Omni-Tech:
Spoiler
- Instead of Omni Hard points we are getting "Omni-Pods", an entire section that can be swapped out for another variant's, of the same section. (Ex/ Swapping the Prime variant's Left Arm(LA) for Variant B's LA.) So, instead of having the Prime's hardpoints and quirks (more on that later), you will have the B's hardpoints and quirks in that section. You can only swap/use Omni-Pods within a chassis type. (Ex/ You can not use a Direwolf's LA on a Timberwolf.) The hardpoints can be energy, ballistic, missile, or equipment such as ECM, AMS, Jump Jets, etc., and module slots. You will be able to do this for the LA, Right Arm(RA), Left Torso(LT), and Right Torso(RT). Note: Head(H) was stated as a swapable location in early information but has not been mentioned since. Legs have not been mentioned specifically but older information said "each location". Center Torso(CT) will control where any earned XP or extra bonus (such as extra C-bill gains) are applied, as well as any fixed equipment slot locations. So changing the CT will change what "mech variant" you are using and therefore it is technically not changeable. This keeps the 3 variants needed to master a mech rule.
-OmniPods can be purchased with either C-Bills or MC and If the player already has a copy of the OmniPod in their inventory, that item is used before buying a new one. A mech comes with all of it's stock Omni-pods of the variant it represents. (Ex/ A Prime Timberwolf CT will come with all the Prime Omni-Pods in each section.)
- Equipping a new OmniPod returns all non-fixed weapons and equipment in that location to the player’s inventory. This is to prevent conflicts with changes to hardpoints, actuators, etc.
- Using a mech with all of it's standard Omni-pods (Ex/ Prime CT with Prime RA, RT, LT, LA, etc.) has been said to give an xp bonus, similar to a Champion mech. Swapping out a standard pod for another variant's pod will negate that xp bonus but provide quirks from another variant as well as the obvious hardpoint difference. If there is a C-bill bonus, it will remain as that is part of the CT.
- Quirks: Each Omni-Pod will have a set of quirks, some good and some bad. Pods with less hardpoints will have more good quirks than bad when compared to a pod with more hardpoints. This is to make similar pods with less hardpoints still viable. (Ex/ Timberwolf Prime RA has 2 energy hardpoints but the Timberwolf A RA only has 1 energy hardpoint. The A Omni-Pod will therefore have better or more quirks than the Prime.)
So, the CT will determine base quirks, like any IS mech. The Omni-Pods will have modifiers to those quirks. They are positive and negative values that are added or subtracted from the base quirk values. So far all IS quirks have been movement related but PGI stated the following: "Potential new quirks would involve aspects such as heat generation and loss, weapon cooldown times, increasing/lowering damage taken, etc." Nothing has been confirmed as to what quirks we are actually getting yet.
Clan Equipment Tech:
Spoiler
- Engine type and rating can not be changed. If the mech starts off with an 300 XL it stays that way. You can not change it to a standard and you can not change it to say, a 350 rating. In addition to this, Clan XL engines only have 2 critical slots in the LT and RT, where IS have 3 each. This means that a Clan mech with an XL engine can loose its LT and keep fighting as 3 criticals are needed to be destroyed before the mech will go down. If it's RT is destroyed afterwards, the mech is down. If the CT is destroyed, the mech is downed regardless of the side torsos conditions, same as IS. So Clan XL engines will have increased survivability over IS XLs and will take up 2 less critical slots, giving the mech more space to work with, but cannot change type or rating. Their weights will be the same as their IS counterparts.
- Clan Endo-Steel(ES): Has the same weight savings as IS ES but only takes up 7 criticals instead of 14. The critical locations for Clan ES will be fixed in pre-designated locations, based on the CT selected, instead of the dynamic slots of IS mechs so far. You can not switch between Standard internals and ES. Whatever the mech comes with, that is what you get.
- Clan Ferro-Fibrous(FF): Provides 1.2 times more armor points per ton than standard armor where IS FF provides 1.12 times more armor points than standard armor. Like ES, Clan FF only takes up 7 criticals versus the IS 14. Again, Clan FF criticals will be fixed in pre-designated locations, based on the CT selected, instead of the dynamic slots of IS mechs so far. You can not switch between Standard Armour and FF. Whatever the mech comes with, that is what you get.
Armour note: In VLog#2, at 11:20, It has been said that we can redistribute armour, that the values are "variable" but not confirmed if that means we can add or subtract from the base armour amount. However, this was labled with a "big disclaimer that this may all get adjusted during tuning.” Early information stated "The amount and distribution of armor" was a restriction but they've gone back on that, at least in part.
- Clan Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sinks(DHS) perform the same as IS DHS but only take up 2 critical slots instead of 3. They weigh the same as IS DHS. Single Heat Sinks(SHS) are the same as IS. Heat sink type can not be changed, what the mech comes with is what you get. Some mechs will also have fixed Heat Sinks that can not be moved or removed as well, based on the CT selected. In addition, heat sinks cannot be added within the engine unless they are part of the minimum[fixed] number that is included in the base configuration, determined by the selected CT. (Ex/ A 275 rated engine has an extra heat sink slot. On IS mechs you can chose to use this slot or not. With some Clan mechs, you will be forced to have this slot filled with a heat sink or some will not allow you to fill and use the slot. There may be other, external, Heat Sinks that are fixed as well.)
- Clan CASE: Clan Mechs automatically receive CASE in any location where ammunition or an explosive weapon is placed, does not take up tonnage, does not take up critical slots, has no cost, and otherwise behaves the same as IS CASE.
- Clan Jump Jets(JJ): Are identical to IS JJ in every way. The only difference is that some clan mechs will have fixed JJ. This means that, based on the CT, some JJ may be forced onto the mech in designated locations. (Ex/ Summoner has 2 JJ in the Left Leg(LL), 2 JJ in the Right Leg(RL), and 1 JJ in the CT, of all variants, that are fixed and can not be removed) It has not been confirmed if additional JJ can be added or removed via available pod space without the need for a hardpoint.
- MASC: Cannot be added or removed by the player and if the mech has MASC, the location MASC occupies cannot be changed. (You can take this as PGI confirming MASC is coming with Clans if you like, but it could simply be that they are making the rule for whenever they get it working.)
- Targeting Computer: Nothing has been said about it yet other than this twitter post by Russ Bullock https://twitter.com/...502883351408640 Will see next week what it does and update this. At launch will have no function but planned function, to be patched in later, can be found here: http://mwomercs.com/...60#entry3442260
- Other Equipment: Some OmniMechs, as determined by Design, have specific weapons or other pieces of equipment (such as Summoner's JJ or the Adder's Flamer) as part of their base configuration. These weapons and equipment can be neither moved nor removed. This could include things like ECM, Active Probes, or AMS but has not been confirmed.
Clan Weapons:
Spoiler
- If any of the following weapons are equipped in an OmniMech’s arm, any Lower Arm Actuator or Hand Actuator that was present in the base configuration is automatically removed: Any Gauss rifle, any autocannon, and any PPC.
- Some weapons are fixed to the chassis and likely based on the CT selected, like the Adder's Flamer.
- Ultra AutoCannons (UAC) will fire in burst mode and can still jam when double tapped. Ex/ UAC20 fires a 5 round burst with every round doing 4 dmg and UAC2 fires 2 rounds at 1 damage each. - This was stated in VLog #4 and Paul Inouye, via NGNG podcast: http://www.nogutsnog...hp?topic=1956.0 35:54 and http://mwomercs.com/...-weapon-update/
- LBX AutoCannons (LBX) were going to switch between ammo types but that is no longer possible. All LBX will be cluster rounds. This was stated in VLog #4 and Per Paul Inouye https://twitter.com/...197447742406656
- AutoCannons(AC) have been added to the clans since the LBX alternate fire did not work out. They will fire slug rounds like IS AC do now burst fire like the UAC but without double tap. This was stated in VLog #4 and Per Paul Inouye https://twitter.com/...197447742406656 and http://mwomercs.com/...-weapon-update/
- Long Range Missiles(LRM) will be "stream-fire" or "ripple-fire", have no minimum range and will have reduced damage from 0-180m. The damage will ramp and not be linear. This was stated in VLog #4 and Per Paul Inouye, via NGNG podcast http://www.nogutsnog...hp?topic=1956.0 39:00 and http://mwomercs.com/...-weapon-update/
Not confirmed but stated options (note values are not set): "Minimum range stays at 180m but LRMs can be fired. The damage ramps from 0 to 1.1 in an exponential curve. i.e. Damage is minimal in the [0]-[100]m range and increases to full damage between [101] and [180]m ranges." and Base heat increased. Note: They also stated a weight increase for LRMs was possible but since have stated they won't change weight due to the affect it would have on stock builds and haven't mentioned it since.
- Streak Short Range Missiles(SSRM): Nothing has been confirmed, balance options given were; "Allow only 2 projectiles to leave the launcher at any given time. SSRM-4 will fire 2 volleys of 2 missiles. SRM-6 will fire 3 volleys of 2 missiles. This will stagger the incoming missiles allowing AMS to take down more if the targeted Mech has AMS." and "Increase the cooldown period of refire on the larger launchers and allow the above staggered shots to happen during this time."
- Lasers will have increased beam duration, do more damage, be lighter, cheaper, and generate less heat. Applies to both ER and Pulse lasers. Paul Inouye in NGNG Podcast http://www.nogutsnog...hp?topic=1956.0 37:35
Other stated option (but not confirmed) for balancing lasers: "Make the Heat Scale slightly higher than the IS version" This was from early info, the NGNG podcast with Paul Inouye has countered this.
- No information has been given about the ER PPC. There are claims of a twitter post stating reduced damage but I have not found a link to this post so can not confirm it. ER PPC will do 10 damage where it hits and then 2.5 damage to two adjacent sections for a total of 15 damage. (Ex/ Hit CT for 10dmg, 2.5 will go to RT and 2.5 to LT) If there is no adjacent section then the damage will be lost. (Ex/ Hit the RA and the RT will take 2.5dmg while the other 2.5dmg is lost. A total of 12.5dmg)
- No information has been given about the Gauss Rifle. Gauss Rifle(GR) will work as is but will be limited, for both Clans and IS, to being able to charge a maximum of 2 GR at one time. (Ex/ If 4 GR on chassis, and charge is pressed, only 2 GR will charge then fire. After the 2 have fired the other 2 can start charging immediately while the two discharged GRs are on CD.)
- No damage, heat, or exact range values have been given. Although range could be extrapolated from the 1/10th reduction statement. I've spent too much time on thise already so I'm not doing the math.
List of known Clan weapons and their weight/criticals(since they are leaving these values):
Type:
Weapon - Tons(T), Crit(C)
Note: Standard ACs were added to the clans by PGI. Prior to this, Clans only had UAC and LBX. No TT values exist for Standard Clan ACs. However, since the idea was to have ammunition switch for the LBX it is safe to assume Standard ACs will have the same stats of an LBX. That being said, there is nothing stopping PGI from changing these values as no stock mechs will have Standard ACs, since they did not exist in TT, and changing weight/crits won't break anything.
Spoiler
Energy:
ER PPC - 6T, 2C
ER Large Laser - 4T, 1C
ER Medium Laser - 1T, 1C
ER Small Laser - 0.5T, 1C
Large Pulse Laser - 6T, 2C
Medium Pulse Laser - 2T, 1C
Small Pulse Laser - 1T, 1C
Flamer - 0.5T, 1C
TAG - 1T, 1C
Other Equipment:
Active Probe - 1T, 1C
ECM - 1T, 1C
AMS - 0.5T, 1C
Announced Variants, complete with hardpoints and stock equipment(Courtesy of Shar Wolf's efforts on the hardpoints and equipment) Note: P stands for Prime. Some stats were missing so I added them in using "[ ]":
Spoiler
Shar Wolf, on 22 May 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:
To add to this - or a summary for the lazy people: Not gonna list the primes (since they are detailed in the packages)
Nice to see someone was less lazy than I was though
Edit: got less lazy - adding the primes
There is also this handy chart, that I sadly cannot find the post I nabbed it from. I would like to give credit if someone knows of the post origin Thanks to White Bear 84, it was SirLANsalot who made the chart. Anywho, it's a handy chart of the mechs and the variants we are getting are denoted by a " >". The Hardpoints are based on the stock configs and since all Prime variants listed on the Clan page have 1-1 hardpoints for stock equipment that is what it's based off of. Note: Summoner Prime, B, D, Nova Prime, B, S, and possibly more are not listed as having JJ even though they do have them.
Spoiler
Additional information related to the Clan packs and release:
There are five modules being released with the Clan pack:
Speed Retention
30% faster movement speed when having lost a leg. Capped at 50KPH
Radar Deprivation
If an enemy has targeted you and you move out of sight, that target will be instantly lost (No decay time).
Enhanced Narc
Increases Speed by 100.
Increases TAG duration by 10 seconds.
Increases EMP duration by 10 seconds.
Shock Absorbance
Absorbes fall damage for:
- Light mechs by 80%
- Medium mechs by 60%
- Heavy mechs by 30%
- Assault mechs by 10%
AMS Overload
Increase AMS rate of fire by 10%
- Warhorn:
"A Warhorn is a mounted cockpit item that has a physical representation in your cockpit. When you take it into battle and you get a kill, it's going to play a sound. Each horn sound is different and is heard by all players in your area. Some of them are even animated. You can really look at the Heavy Metal right now when you get a kill it plays some music and that's exactly what a warhorn is going to do, except for you'll have an actual cool speaker in your cockpit as well. And if you equip it on the Heavy Metal the warhorn sound will override the Heavy Metal."
Visuals of the Warhorns can be seen here and the idividual warhorns can be heard here.
Gold Mechs: "You can swap out pods on Gold mechs, no you dont lose your bonus. As stated it is the CT basically that defines the mech" - Russ Bullok, twitter post https://twitter.com/...750199883206656
"If clan mechs prove to be better than inner sphere mechs after all, there is an ability with their matchmaker to treat clan mechs as 5 tons heavier, as an example, so matchmaker will try to pad the IS tonnage to fit with the number of clan mechs opposing. " - NGNG #105 Part 2 26:30 http://www.nogutsnog...hp?topic=1847.0
Saber in the list of clan weapons and tonnage you got the ERPPC wrong its 6 tons and 2 crits not 2 tons and 2 crits. don't want to give people bad dreams.
Beautiful. Only additional source I would cite would be the correction post re the armor values being modable, if possible. Otherwise, gorgeous write up, and would love to see it stickied.
vagabond The Scot, on 02 June 2014 - 03:20 AM, said:
Saber in the list of clan weapons and tonnage you got the ERPPC wrong its 6 tons and 2 crits not 2 tons and 2 crits. don't want to give people bad dreams.
O_O *fixes* That is what happens when you stay up till 4am and try to transfer data from one chart to another after 8 hours of gathering other data from all over the net.
Pariah Devalis, on 02 June 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:
Beautiful. Only additional source I would cite would be the correction post re the armor values being modable, if possible. Otherwise, gorgeous write up, and would love to see it stickied.
I did, it's in the list of sources at the bottom, VLog#2. For some reason if I try to link the video at that time frame it just puts up an embeded youtube video at the start of the VLog and not at the time spot. It's at 11:20 though, suppose I could put that info in my post *goes to add*. EDIT: I figured out how to link to the time slot: here. Since I can't directly quote the transcript post here's the copy/paste of the quote: http://mwomercs.com/...he-devs-vlog-2/
David:
As Paul said we were asked whether armor was going to be adjustable. In the table top rules for Omnimechs armor is fixed, and you can’t do anything about it, ever… it’s type and location is completely fixed. We realize that the Table top armor placement is not necessarily the best armor placement for our game, so this is one of the instances where we’re going to break those rules and allow you to redistribute your armor as you see fit in order to best protect your ‘mech for our game…. But the type, whether it is going to be standard or ferro-fiborous is going to be fixed, and there won’t be any change to that.”
Paul:
“So the values are variable, but the types are not”
David:
“Yes. And again, this all comes with the big disclaimer that this may all get adjusted during tuning.”
I wanted to pose a possible correction i believe in the dev blogs Paul said that they were looking at having the weapon swap instead of the ammo swap, so you press a button and your LBX 10 autocannon switches out into an AC 10 and would pull from your ac10 ammo instead oh your LBX ammo, as this was how they were going to do the switching ammo anyway that wouldn't be a change. it will achieve the same effect as ammo switching but by simpler means. there fore a true AC2/5/10/20 aren't being actually added to the stores but rather as an alt profile to the LBX that it can transform into mid fight. that's what I took away from VLOG/4 anywise.
I wanted to pose a possible correction i believe in the dev blogs Paul said that they were looking at having the weapon swap instead of the ammo swap, so you press a button and your LBX 10 autocannon switches out into an AC 10 and would pull from your ac10 ammo instead oh your LBX ammo, as this was how they were going to do the switching ammo anyway that wouldn't be a change. it will achieve the same effect as ammo switching but by simpler means. there fore a true AC2/5/10/20 aren't being actually added to the stores but rather as an alt profile to the LBX that it can transform into mid fight. that's what I took away from VLOG/4 anywise.
Dear PGI: give Saber Avalon a free hero or something.
Also Konivig. (Does he also maintain the dev tracker site?)
Missing info I desperately need:
location of criticals for endo, ferro and dhs. Having 2 ballistic in a side torso, but 7 slots of endo steel and chassis locked dhs would be an un pleasant surprise.
Dear PGI: give Saber Avalon a free hero or something.
Also Konivig. (Does he also maintain the dev tracker site?)
Missing info I desperately need:
location of criticals for endo and dhs. Having 2 ballistic in a side torso, but 7 slots of endo steel and chassis locked dhs would be an un pleasant surprise.
They should match up with the TT locations, I've been using: http://bte.battletec...archEngine.aspx to figure that stuff out for myself. It's just a pain to go through all the variants and sort out what each one has.
The chart where it shows Structure type, to the left of where it says Endo Steel has Slots. If a 0, there is no Endo crit there. If a number, that's how many slots of Endo are in that location. So the CT has 1, RT and LT have 1 each, RL and LL each have 2. Then check Armour Type and it's the same deal, slots are on the left of Ferro-Fibrous; CT 1, RT and LT each have 3.
Okay. So the madcat S will only have 5 free crits in each torso.
Boo hoo.
(2 xl, 1 endo, 2 ff, 2 jj)
7 on others... so dual ac20 dreams shattered!
Clan ac 5s should all fit though. And 10s on the non jumper.
@jecrego2k14 That is correct. Clans have 3 cannon types, Clan LBX, Clan UAC, Clan AC.
That doesn't make sense. I want to add switchable ammo types to the LBX gun and can't for some technical reason. Instead I add an entire new line of ACs to compensate. The LBX gun still can't have slug ammo and the new AC won't be shooting clusters either! I thought like raigner did, that equipping an LBX 10 would switch to an AC10 when you wanted slug rounds. Paul's reply leaves me scratching my head...
Makes perfect sense. Due to technical limitations they were currently unable to make ammo toggle work. Therefore they needed to give us a solid shot weapon option.
What seems odd to me is that CryEngine supports the feature, or at least appears to. Maybe it just changes the gun with no graphical change, but in Crysis 1 and 2 ammo types were toggles.
We already have a solid ammo option, the UAC line. I probably just misunderstood what Paul said in the Vlog. I really thought he meant: "Since we can't add an ammo toggle yet, we swap the weapon itself ( therefore inventing regular clan ACs )
We already have a solid ammo option, the UAC line. I probably just misunderstood what Paul said in the Vlog. I really thought he meant: "Since we can't add an ammo toggle yet, we swap the weapon itself ( therefore inventing regular clan ACs )
Yes that is what it seemed like to me as well from the Vlog that since the ammo switching was giginb problems that they were going to make it so you can equip a solid slug weapon or the scatter weapon. but the 3 AC thing was said yesterday . so yea it makes you go "huh"?
It works more like a fast pulse laser. It is not going to be one slug of 20, but 5 slugs of 4 (or 4 slugs of 5, whatever). A double tap would not be two shells, but 8 or 10 shells. The difference between a FLD weapon and a DOT weapon is that the FLD weapon, such as an Autocannon or ERPPC, is that it does all of its damage instantly, to one location. A DOT weapon like lasers or Clan UAC deal their total damage over a period of time, as in it is not instantaneously dealing the full value of the damage to one spot, meaning it can be spread over multiple parts of a target.
The reason why the toggle LBX was even an option for us and not for the Inner Sphere was because they did not want to make the FLD option of a standard autocannon redundant when there was a better weapon available. As the Clan's UAC was going to be burst fire, and still will be burst fire, having a solid FLD ballistic option outside of the Gauss made sense to roll into the LBX, as the LBX is supposed to be bi-modal anyways. Failing that, having an invented standard Clan AC kinda sorta makes sense, even if it sucks not to have the proper LBX implementation.
Edited by Pariah Devalis, 02 June 2014 - 03:50 PM.
It works more like a fast pulse laser. It is not going to be one slug of 20, but 5 slugs of 4 (or 4 slugs of 5, whatever). A double tap would not be two shells, but 8 or 10 shells. The difference between a FLD weapon and a DOT weapon is that the FLD weapon, such as an Autocannon or ERPPC, is that it does all of its damage instantly, to one location. A DOT weapon like lasers or Clan UAC deal their total damage over a period of time, as in it is not instantaneously dealing the full value of the damage to one spot, meaning it can be spread over multiple parts of a target.
The reason why the toggle LBX was even an option for us and not for the Inner Sphere was because they did not want to make the FLD option of a standard autocannon redundant when there was a better weapon available. As the Clan's UAC was going to be burst fire, and still will be burst fire, having a solid FLD ballistic option outside of the Gauss made sense to roll into the LBX, as the LBX is supposed to be bi-modal anyways. Failing that, having an invented standard Clan AC kinda sorta makes sense, even if it sucks not to have the proper LBX implementation.
You are talking about FLD vs DoT. I'm talking about Scatter shot vs pin point. Regardless, we're more or less on the same side of the argument. Concerning Paul's statement in the Vlog I simply understood that upon equipping a LBX10 in a clan mech, one would also be equipping a "ghost AC" of the same caliber/weight/crit. So when one would toggle a solid slug round the game would actually switch to the regular AC for that shot. Want another buckshot, toggle back to the LBX, etc...
Regardless, I wish them godspeed on fixing the internal issue so we can have an interesting variation of the LBX canon.
Absolutely agree. I was hoping it was a problem with making the ammo toggle and not with making the weapon ID toggle, thus allowing a workaround. I know Crysis 1 and 2 allowed for alternate ammo types, so the engine should be able to support something, at least to my layman understanding (which, when it comes to programming, is very little).
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