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The Clans And What We Know So Far


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#1 Saber Avalon

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 01:31 AM

Another trailer:


Edit: Clan package details! http://mwomercs.com/...ackage-details/
Also: Clan teaser trailer! Thanks to lastkhan and Pariah Devalis who PM'd it to me


Ok, so there has been a lot of misinformation going around and a lot of complaints of no info about the Clans. There actually has been a boat load of information, just not all located on these forums. At the same time there are still a lot of gaps. Also, the information that is on the forums is scattered, in addition to the external site info. What I have done is consolidated all of the information I have found and supplied sources to back it up. Prepare for a long read, there is no TL:DR. (Majority of sources are linked at the bottom of the post instead of on a per item basis, as this would get out of hand quick.)

- PGI wants to balance clan mechs to within 5 tons of their Inner Sphere(IS) counterparts but keep their unique feel. However they cannot change weight or critical space from Table Top(TT) values as this will break stock configurations. This is per their own words and has held true with IS mechs thus far. Since they are balancing Clan to IS, this means they can keep the 12 vs 12 setup we have now. Even if that breaks canon of Clans working in Stars of 5 instead of Lances of 4. Balanced gameplay takes precedence over lore, to many a fan's dismay. I look at it as an alternate universe, where Clans are equal to IS, and whoever did the bidding kept an extra 2 Points and ditched the remaining 3.

Note: Per VLog#2 12:15 - 13:30 - David states PGI is "aiming to do 12 vs 12 Clan vs IS" and right after Paul says "Yeah we’re actually going to start with the 12 v 12, 12 clan versus 12 inner sphere" However, in NGNG podcast #105 at 24:25 "Russ confirms mixed Omni and Frankenmechs mixed on the same team in pug drops"

In addition, OmniMech rules apply to all Clan OmniMechs as well as any IS OmniMechs they may make in the future. There are also rules that apply to all Clan and IS Mechs, dictating the use of Clan technology.
- Clan Mechs can only equip Clan weapons and equipment.
- Clan 'Mechs cannot equip Inner Sphere technology.
- When customizing a Clan Mech, only Clan technology is shown in the player’s inventory.
- IS Mechs cannot equip Clan technology.
- When customizing an IS Mech, only IS technology is shown in the player’s inventory.

So, how are they going to balance clan tech with IS counterparts? Read on.

Omni-Tech:
Spoiler


Clan Equipment Tech:
Spoiler


Clan Weapons:
Spoiler



List of known Clan weapons and their weight/criticals(since they are leaving these values):
Type:
Weapon - Tons(T), Crit(C)

Note: Standard ACs were added to the clans by PGI. Prior to this, Clans only had UAC and LBX. No TT values exist for Standard Clan ACs. However, since the idea was to have ammunition switch for the LBX it is safe to assume Standard ACs will have the same stats of an LBX. That being said, there is nothing stopping PGI from changing these values as no stock mechs will have Standard ACs, since they did not exist in TT, and changing weight/crits won't break anything.
Spoiler


Announced Variants, complete with hardpoints and stock equipment(Courtesy of Shar Wolf's efforts on the hardpoints and equipment) Note: P stands for Prime. Some stats were missing so I added them in using "[ ]":
Spoiler



There is also this handy chart, that I sadly cannot find the post I nabbed it from. I would like to give credit if someone knows of the post origin Thanks to White Bear 84, it was SirLANsalot who made the chart. Anywho, it's a handy chart of the mechs and the variants we are getting are denoted by a " >". The Hardpoints are based on the stock configs and since all Prime variants listed on the Clan page have 1-1 hardpoints for stock equipment that is what it's based off of. Note: Summoner Prime, B, D, Nova Prime, B, S, and possibly more are not listed as having JJ even though they do have them.
Spoiler


Additional information related to the Clan packs and release:
Spoiler


Sources:
http://www.mwomercs.com/clans
http://mwomercs.com/...gn-perspective/
http://mwomercs.com/...d-construction/
http://mwomercs.com/...he-devs-vlog-1/
http://mwomercs.com/...he-devs-vlog-2/
http://mwomercs.com/...he-devs-vlog-4/
http://mwomercs.com/...ollections-faq/
http://mwomercs.com/...er/page__st__20
http://mwomercs.com/...ions-on-reddit/
http://www.nogutsnog...hp?topic=1848.0
http://www.nogutsnog...hp?topic=1956.0
http://www.sarna.net...s_and_Equipment
http://mwomercs.com/...-weapon-update/
http://mwomercs.com/...60#entry3442260
http://mwomercs.com/...tails-released/
https://soundcloud.c...r-warhorn-sound

Edited by Saber Avalon, 16 June 2014 - 08:41 PM.


#2 CHH Badkarma

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 01:49 AM

Well done. Nicely streamlined.

#3 Vagabond HT

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:20 AM

Saber in the list of clan weapons and tonnage you got the ERPPC wrong its 6 tons and 2 crits not 2 tons and 2 crits. don't want to give people bad dreams.

#4 Clideb50

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:39 AM

A well organized list Saber. Well done! Hopefully this will help a lot of people.

#5 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 06:24 AM

Beautiful. Only additional source I would cite would be the correction post re the armor values being modable, if possible. Otherwise, gorgeous write up, and would love to see it stickied.

#6 Saber Avalon

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 08:02 AM

View Postvagabond The Scot, on 02 June 2014 - 03:20 AM, said:

Saber in the list of clan weapons and tonnage you got the ERPPC wrong its 6 tons and 2 crits not 2 tons and 2 crits. don't want to give people bad dreams.


O_O *fixes* That is what happens when you stay up till 4am and try to transfer data from one chart to another after 8 hours of gathering other data from all over the net.

View PostPariah Devalis, on 02 June 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

Beautiful. Only additional source I would cite would be the correction post re the armor values being modable, if possible. Otherwise, gorgeous write up, and would love to see it stickied.


I did, it's in the list of sources at the bottom, VLog#2. For some reason if I try to link the video at that time frame it just puts up an embeded youtube video at the start of the VLog and not at the time spot. It's at 11:20 though, suppose I could put that info in my post *goes to add*. EDIT: I figured out how to link to the time slot: here. Since I can't directly quote the transcript post here's the copy/paste of the quote:
http://mwomercs.com/...he-devs-vlog-2/


David:
As Paul said we were asked whether armor was going to be adjustable. In the table top rules for Omnimechs armor is fixed, and you can’t do anything about it, ever… it’s type and location is completely fixed. We realize that the Table top armor placement is not necessarily the best armor placement for our game, so this is one of the instances where we’re going to break those rules and allow you to redistribute your armor as you see fit in order to best protect your ‘mech for our game…. But the type, whether it is going to be standard or ferro-fiborous is going to be fixed, and there won’t be any change to that.”

Paul:
“So the values are variable, but the types are not”

David:
“Yes. And again, this all comes with the big disclaimer that this may all get adjusted during tuning.”

Edited by Saber Avalon, 02 June 2014 - 08:10 AM.


#7 Raigner

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 12:43 PM

I wanted to pose a possible correction i believe in the dev blogs Paul said that they were looking at having the weapon swap instead of the ammo swap, so you press a button and your LBX 10 autocannon switches out into an AC 10 and would pull from your ac10 ammo instead oh your LBX ammo, as this was how they were going to do the switching ammo anyway that wouldn't be a change. it will achieve the same effect as ammo switching but by simpler means. there fore a true AC2/5/10/20 aren't being actually added to the stores but rather as an alt profile to the LBX that it can transform into mid fight. that's what I took away from VLOG/4 anywise.

#8 Saber Avalon

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 01:07 PM

View Postraigner, on 02 June 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

I wanted to pose a possible correction i believe in the dev blogs Paul said that they were looking at having the weapon swap instead of the ammo swap, so you press a button and your LBX 10 autocannon switches out into an AC 10 and would pull from your ac10 ammo instead oh your LBX ammo, as this was how they were going to do the switching ammo anyway that wouldn't be a change. it will achieve the same effect as ammo switching but by simpler means. there fore a true AC2/5/10/20 aren't being actually added to the stores but rather as an alt profile to the LBX that it can transform into mid fight. that's what I took away from VLOG/4 anywise.


Check my sources:

jecrego2k14@jecrego2k14 May 29
@Paul_Inouye Clarify please: Will the Clan receive the regular standard Auto Cannons to go with LB-x and UAC type Auto Cannons?<p class="stream-item-footer clearfix"> Details Posted Image Paul_Inouye@Paul_Inouye
@jecrego2k14 That is correct. Clans have 3 cannon types, Clan LBX, Clan UAC, Clan AC.

Edited by Saber Avalon, 02 June 2014 - 01:08 PM.


#9 Dan Nashe

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 01:10 PM

Dear PGI: give Saber Avalon a free hero or something.
Also Konivig. (Does he also maintain the dev tracker site?)

Missing info I desperately need:
location of criticals for endo, ferro and dhs. Having 2 ballistic in a side torso, but 7 slots of endo steel and chassis locked dhs would be an un pleasant surprise.

Edited by DanNashe, 02 June 2014 - 01:33 PM.


#10 Saber Avalon

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 01:20 PM

View PostDanNashe, on 02 June 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

Dear PGI: give Saber Avalon a free hero or something.
Also Konivig. (Does he also maintain the dev tracker site?)

Missing info I desperately need:
location of criticals for endo and dhs. Having 2 ballistic in a side torso, but 7 slots of endo steel and chassis locked dhs would be an un pleasant surprise.


They should match up with the TT locations, I've been using: http://bte.battletec...archEngine.aspx to figure that stuff out for myself. It's just a pain to go through all the variants and sort out what each one has.

To help you along I'll give Stormcrow Prime as an example.

The chart where it shows Structure type, to the left of where it says Endo Steel has Slots. If a 0, there is no Endo crit there. If a number, that's how many slots of Endo are in that location. So the CT has 1, RT and LT have 1 each, RL and LL each have 2. Then check Armour Type and it's the same deal, slots are on the left of Ferro-Fibrous; CT 1, RT and LT each have 3.

#11 Dan Nashe

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 02:13 PM

Okay. So the madcat S will only have 5 free crits in each torso.
Boo hoo.
(2 xl, 1 endo, 2 ff, 2 jj)
7 on others... so dual ac20 dreams shattered!
Clan ac 5s should all fit though. And 10s on the non jumper.

Edited by DanNashe, 03 June 2014 - 06:14 AM.


#12 ChapeL

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 02:23 PM

View PostSaber Avalon, on 02 June 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:


Check my sources:

jecrego2k14@jecrego2k14 May 29
@Paul_Inouye Clarify please: Will the Clan receive the regular standard Auto Cannons to go with LB-x and UAC type Auto Cannons?<p class="stream-item-footer clearfix"> Details Posted Image Paul_Inouye@Paul_Inouye


@jecrego2k14 That is correct. Clans have 3 cannon types, Clan LBX, Clan UAC, Clan AC.



That doesn't make sense. I want to add switchable ammo types to the LBX gun and can't for some technical reason. Instead I add an entire new line of ACs to compensate. The LBX gun still can't have slug ammo and the new AC won't be shooting clusters either! I thought like raigner did, that equipping an LBX 10 would switch to an AC10 when you wanted slug rounds. Paul's reply leaves me scratching my head...

Edited by Bull Frog, 02 June 2014 - 02:23 PM.


#13 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 02:31 PM

Makes perfect sense. Due to technical limitations they were currently unable to make ammo toggle work. Therefore they needed to give us a solid shot weapon option.

What seems odd to me is that CryEngine supports the feature, or at least appears to. Maybe it just changes the gun with no graphical change, but in Crysis 1 and 2 ammo types were toggles.

#14 ChapeL

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:24 PM

We already have a solid ammo option, the UAC line. I probably just misunderstood what Paul said in the Vlog. I really thought he meant: "Since we can't add an ammo toggle yet, we swap the weapon itself ( therefore inventing regular clan ACs )

#15 Corbenik

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:35 PM

View PostBull Frog, on 02 June 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

We already have a solid ammo option, the UAC line. I probably just misunderstood what Paul said in the Vlog. I really thought he meant: "Since we can't add an ammo toggle yet, we swap the weapon itself ( therefore inventing regular clan ACs )

Yes that is what it seemed like to me as well from the Vlog that since the ammo switching was giginb problems that they were going to make it so you can equip a solid slug weapon or the scatter weapon. but the 3 AC thing was said yesterday . so yea it makes you go "huh"?

#16 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:47 PM

Because our UAC is not a solid damage system?

It works more like a fast pulse laser. It is not going to be one slug of 20, but 5 slugs of 4 (or 4 slugs of 5, whatever). A double tap would not be two shells, but 8 or 10 shells. The difference between a FLD weapon and a DOT weapon is that the FLD weapon, such as an Autocannon or ERPPC, is that it does all of its damage instantly, to one location. A DOT weapon like lasers or Clan UAC deal their total damage over a period of time, as in it is not instantaneously dealing the full value of the damage to one spot, meaning it can be spread over multiple parts of a target.

The reason why the toggle LBX was even an option for us and not for the Inner Sphere was because they did not want to make the FLD option of a standard autocannon redundant when there was a better weapon available. As the Clan's UAC was going to be burst fire, and still will be burst fire, having a solid FLD ballistic option outside of the Gauss made sense to roll into the LBX, as the LBX is supposed to be bi-modal anyways. Failing that, having an invented standard Clan AC kinda sorta makes sense, even if it sucks not to have the proper LBX implementation.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 02 June 2014 - 03:50 PM.


#17 Alaskan Nobody

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:51 PM

View PostPariah Devalis, on 02 June 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Because our UAC is not a solid damage system?

Even if it was, some people prefer not to have the jam mechanic to worry about.

#18 CoffiNail

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:59 PM

View PostShar Wolf, on 02 June 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Even if it was, some people prefer not to have the jam mechanic to worry about.

Right here. I find it annoying and unreliable. I do not want to worry about chance when using my weaponry. If I did, I would be playing table top. :angry:

#19 ChapeL

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 04:59 PM

View PostPariah Devalis, on 02 June 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Because our UAC is not a solid damage system?

It works more like a fast pulse laser. It is not going to be one slug of 20, but 5 slugs of 4 (or 4 slugs of 5, whatever). A double tap would not be two shells, but 8 or 10 shells. The difference between a FLD weapon and a DOT weapon is that the FLD weapon, such as an Autocannon or ERPPC, is that it does all of its damage instantly, to one location. A DOT weapon like lasers or Clan UAC deal their total damage over a period of time, as in it is not instantaneously dealing the full value of the damage to one spot, meaning it can be spread over multiple parts of a target.

The reason why the toggle LBX was even an option for us and not for the Inner Sphere was because they did not want to make the FLD option of a standard autocannon redundant when there was a better weapon available. As the Clan's UAC was going to be burst fire, and still will be burst fire, having a solid FLD ballistic option outside of the Gauss made sense to roll into the LBX, as the LBX is supposed to be bi-modal anyways. Failing that, having an invented standard Clan AC kinda sorta makes sense, even if it sucks not to have the proper LBX implementation.


You are talking about FLD vs DoT. I'm talking about Scatter shot vs pin point. Regardless, we're more or less on the same side of the argument. Concerning Paul's statement in the Vlog I simply understood that upon equipping a LBX10 in a clan mech, one would also be equipping a "ghost AC" of the same caliber/weight/crit. So when one would toggle a solid slug round the game would actually switch to the regular AC for that shot. Want another buckshot, toggle back to the LBX, etc...

Regardless, I wish them godspeed on fixing the internal issue so we can have an interesting variation of the LBX canon.

Edited by Bull Frog, 02 June 2014 - 04:59 PM.


#20 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 05:12 PM

Absolutely agree. I was hoping it was a problem with making the ammo toggle and not with making the weapon ID toggle, thus allowing a workaround. I know Crysis 1 and 2 allowed for alternate ammo types, so the engine should be able to support something, at least to my layman understanding (which, when it comes to programming, is very little).





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