556 replies to this topic

[ramp4ge]

Having played my T-Wolf a bit and done fairly well with it in the limited number of games (Averaging 500+- a game with it, about the same as my laser-boated Warthog), all I can say is..

If, in the lore, Clan mechs were balanced the way they are now against IS mechs, the invasion would've ended on day one. Because while new and shiny and kinda' cool, Clan mechs just aren't scary. There's no sense of forboding. There's no sense of superiority piloting one and no sense of inferiority when fighting one in an IS mech.

To me, they feel more like reskinned IS mechs with DOT weapons than they do anything "alien" and "different"...And the things that are "alien" and "different" just make them worse...

Edited by ramp4ge, 19 June 2014 - 03:07 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

krash27, on 19 June 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

The post of yours I quoted I understood that you meant by shutting down a thread you would troll it, if I am incorrect on that I apologize. I took the "shutting down" part to literally.
Trolling to shut down threads is never a decent thing to do, even if the person you are trying to show facts to just sits there going "LALALALALA" holds hands over ears"I CAN"T HEAR YOU"

I commend any attempt at reason (lord knows I fail at that at times myself) as long as it doesn't degenerate into trolling etc.
Real adults can work through issues without slinging sh*t, which I can say with certainty that you would agree with that statement.

There was a misunderstanding. It's not a big deal. The internet isn't exactly the best at conveying tones and the subtleties of speech. I seem to forget that some of the time.

I would like to say, thank you for being so civil about it. People should have an attitude more like yours on these forums. Helps when more people start actual debates and discussions instead of flame wars.

ramp4ge, on 19 June 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Having played my T-Wolf a bit and done fairly well with it in the limited number of games (Averaging 500+- a game with it, about the same as my laser-boated Warthog), all I can say is..

If, in the lore, Clan mechs were balanced the way they are now against IS mechs, the invasion would've ended on day one. Because while new and shiny and kinda' cool, Clan mechs just aren't scary. There's no sense of forboding. There's no sense of superiority piloting one and no sense of inferiority when fighting one in an IS mech.

To me, they feel more like reskinned IS mechs with DOT weapons than they do anything "alien" and "different"...And the things that are "alien" and "different" just make them worse...

Yeah, pretty sure the FRR alone would've soloed all of the clans if the mechs functioned like they do in the game. However, the main advantage had in their omni tech was how relatively cheap and quick it was to replace a weapon, or repair a mech. Which meant that as long as they had the parts, and the pilots stayed alive, they can keep sending mechs out faster than the IS can put them down.

Also, once the IS got comparable tech, and got it's act together, the clans were mostly finished. In the 3100s the clans are going crazy trying to maintain an edge over the IS forces, and they are not exactly succeeding.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 19 June 2014 - 03:56 PM.

[JakeEDogge]

ReXspec, on 19 June 2014 - 03:16 AM, said:

>Clans OP

Yeah... I pretty much stopped reading right there.

Clans are supposed to be OP, chucklenuts.

If you are a good pilot, you will r*pe face with a Clan 'mech.

If you are a bad pilot, you are little more then food for those who CAN use the tech.

If you can't accept that, GTFO OF MY MECHWARRIOR. >:<

It's this kind of arrogance that really pisses me off. Last time I looked CHUCKLENUTS it's not YOUR Mechwarrior. Good pilot or bad shouldn't make a difference though I can understand your head is prolly so far up your butt the only opinoin you can see is your own and to hell with every-one else.

[Abisha]

hey look a "other" topic how OVERPOWERED clan mechs are......role eyes.

[pwnface]

Honestly at high level gameplay the Inner Sphere pinpoint alpha builds are still superior to clan mechs. People that think Clans are overpowered really need to learn how to play the game. The Clans are relatively well balanced right now, maybe the clan er-medium laser could use a very slight damage nerf to 6.5 or 6 but other than that I'm pretty happy. I've actually been getting more 1k+ damage matches (7 or 8 today instead of usual 2 or 3) consistently in my meta builds now that I'm not facing as many enemy 733c/Dragon Slayers. This is coming from someone who doesn't own a single clan mech.

[CCC Dober]

Just to add another perspective. Been playing with another guy yesterday and we were on tilt (3 losses in a row at that point). So I decided to ditch the Summoner in favor of the DDC to break the pattern. Lo' and behold, we ended up in an all IS team vs a mixed IS/Clan team and wiped them out. Lucky? You'll be the judge of that.

Anecdotal evidence to be sure, but given the damage numbers I've compared over time (before and after Clan introduction), Clan Mechs do not push higher damage numbers just by themselves. Neither are they harder to kill, unlike some Light Mechs I could mention in passing. I still see death ball tactics and LRMs reduce the best Mechs to scrap in mere seconds. There's no magic or Clan advantage involved here. Just old fashioned weight of numbers and stupid amounts of firepower brought to bear on single targets.

Business as usual.

[DeathlyEyes]

The Dragon Slayer is still the best mech in the game. 2 PPC+ AC5 + UAC5 combination is still the best. The clan mechs might wreck undisciplined puggies but the meta jump snipers are still better. In fact a lot of clan mechs have superior IS counters. Your mechs just aren't set up optimally to deal with clan mechs. Clan laser burn times are way longer so if you can get in and out of cover fast then you have an advantage. Clan weapons are way hotter and cooling isn't much better than IS so they run hotter, get into a brawl with them.

[divinedisclaimer]

It's just the timber wolf. It really feels like that mech should be 75 KPH max. It's too much armor and firepower to be moving that fast.

All the others are fine.

[fandre]

I would like to see a gamemode with 12is vs 10c. As a IS player I cant see any real adventages for clan mechs in the last games i played.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

divinedisclaimer, on 20 June 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

It's just the timber wolf. It really feels like that mech should be 75 KPH max. It's too much armor and firepower to be moving that fast.

All the others are fine.

It sounds like they hit the nail on the head then. This is the description of how the IS felt about the Timber Wolf, from sarna:

"When first encountered by Inner Sphere forces the idea that a heavy 'Mech could move so swiftly while being as heavily armed and armored as theTimber Wolf was inconceivable."

Their hit boxes are not the best. The CT is very similar to the Catapult and the ears are all side torso. It is pretty easy to pick which section you want to hit. In truth, with those hit boxes it probably needs the speed and jump jets.

Edited by Rouken, 20 June 2014 - 04:14 AM.

[pwnface]

I think because the timberwolf has protruding LRM launchers on its shoulders it is actually smarter to forgo the missile hardpoints to improve your hitbox. 2xppc gauss anyone?

[Sudden]

oh please clan mechs are not op in anyway, I don't have any. but I would say pgi did a good job on them. in fact they are too easy to kill,they need to have more armour or better weapons

[Lucky Strongarm]

I didn't purchase any Clan tech. There's plenty of IS mechs I still haven't tried. My first impression of "post-invasion" matches were that clan pilots "felt" powerful in their new mechs. I've seen a lot of instances where clanners are playing very aggressive, due to (what I assume is) overconfidence in their new hardware. I decided to run a 3x AC/5, 3x MPL Ilya and a 3x AC/5, 2x PPC Banshee against the new clan mechs in the initial PUG matches after the clan introduction, and I was struck at how many just charged into my guns and fell apart.

I'm not an expert on balance in this game, by no means. But the initial impression I've gotten from clan mech pilots is that they expect their mechs to be superior, and therefore take aggressive chances that frequently don't pan out. From that perspective, the clan hardware doesn't feel OP compared to IS (even though it may very well be).

[Bobzilla]

Lucky Strongarm, on 20 June 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

I didn't purchase any Clan tech. There's plenty of IS mechs I still haven't tried. My first impression of "post-invasion" matches were that clan pilots "felt" powerful in their new mechs. I've seen a lot of instances where clanners are playing very aggressive, due to (what I assume is) overconfidence in their new hardware. I decided to run a 3x AC/5, 3x MPL Ilya and a 3x AC/5, 2x PPC Banshee against the new clan mechs in the initial PUG matches after the clan introduction, and I was struck at how many just charged into my guns and fell apart.

I'm not an expert on balance in this game, by no means. But the initial impression I've gotten from clan mech pilots is that they expect their mechs to be superior, and therefore take aggressive chances that frequently don't pan out. From that perspective, the clan hardware doesn't feel OP compared to IS (even though it may very well be).

Nailed it.

Clans have better ranges, yet in most fights after the invasion, the battles are at shorter ranges pre-invasion (something wrong there).

I could see a lot of battles at over 1k in the future, which could be considered OP compaired to IS capability, but on most maps you could close the distance.

So it's too early to tell one way or the other until the meta dust settles.

[Roland]

No one is really equipped to judge the balance issues yet.

Most folks really have no grasp of how balance works anyway, but even for those folks who do, it'll take a bit for better players to develop optimal configurations that really abuse the current balance situation.

For the time being, you're seeing a bunch of random stuff because most players don't really know much about mech design, and the designs of those players who do haven't been seen on the field enough for them to propagate through the ranks of the derps.

[Mavairo]

Yes, look how OP Clan Mechs Are. They totally outshined my Thunderbolt!

There's this thing, I know it's new fangled and hard to understand..

but it's called Brawling. It's a colloquial name for Close Range Engagements (250 and less) I suggest you learn how to.

Edited by Mavairo, 20 June 2014 - 08:33 AM.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

I can still put up a near 1000 point damage game with my 2ppc/3ac5 banshee... just like I did before clan mechs rolled out. FLD is still painful, it's just people are playing with their new toys atm.

The biggest thing to remember is the mech doesn't win the game, it's the skill of the pilot using the mech and the build the pilot is running on the mech. Introduction of clan mechs changed the dynamics of the game, it didn't give the new mechs an iWin button.

[Lucky Strongarm]

Roland, on 20 June 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

Most folks really have no grasp of how balance works anyway...

I'd actually like to know. I believe there is a difference between effective mech configuration, and just configurations built to exploit imbalance. I know that poptarting is all the rage right now. I just can't imagine how that strategy is fun to play.

[Atheus]

00ohDstruct, on 20 June 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

I can still put up a near 1000 point damage game with my 2ppc/3ac5 banshee... just like I did before clan mechs rolled out. FLD is still painful, it's just people are playing with their new toys atm.

The biggest thing to remember is the mech doesn't win the game, it's the skill of the pilot using the mech and the build the pilot is running on the mech. Introduction of clan mechs changed the dynamics of the game, it didn't give the new mechs an iWin button.

Ah I love these "it's the pilot not the mech" guys. So let's test that theory, shall we? Take your 2ppc/3ac5 banshee you like so much and remove a PPC and an AC5. Are you winning as often? Remove another AC5 and replace the PPC with a large laser. Still winning? Maybe just 1 small laser. How's that mech working for you? Do you suppose that changing the equipment might have an effect on your performance? Your assertion does not stand up to reductio ad absurdum, so go ahead and stop asserting it now.

[Atheus]

Mavairo, on 20 June 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

Yes, look how OP Clan Mechs Are. They totally outshined my Thunderbolt!

There's this thing, I know it's new fangled and hard to understand..

but it's called Brawling. It's a colloquial name for Close Range Engagements (250 and less) I suggest you learn how to.

I once saw a screen shot of a spider who did around 1800 damage in a match. The logical conclusion must be that spiders are the best mech in the game, right? It can't be that from that cherry-picked sample size of one you can't draw any reliable conclusions.