556 replies to this topic

[Asmudius Heng]

bluepiglet, on 19 July 2014 - 02:43 AM, said:

It's funny that ppl are trying to using the "spread damage" as an excuse for the broken clan meches. Ask yourselves what happens when a lot of them "spreading" their damage from twice the reach of IS weapon. That's right, a boring and short game but still a happy end for some. "55 bucks well spent on the ez mode!! "

Spread damage does make a difference, it is the biggest differentiator in fact.

Range however is hardly ever taken into account by people saying clans are on equal footing - the way to maps work means that range is not always an advantage though it is true and a few weapons gain more from the range increase than others so its a mixed bag.

The spread damage however is also a mixed bag because the argument seems to always assume the enemy is being as defensive as they can - in practice though this is not always the case. Assaults are fat and slow and easier to hit, often you get behind a mech or to the side of a mech before they can begin to evade - in fact with clan weapons its probably best to change targets to the one who is not expecting the attack then the guy who is.

There are so many variables in a team game but the arguments become very narrow because people want to fit them into thier bias view most of the time.

Most people I have seen that are good at analysing these things pretty much agree that a few clan mechs are OP due to having FF and Endo both which is awesome for the clans, the clan XL engine being so hardy, and hitboxes that work well just like some IS mechs work well too.

Weapons wise the disadvantages of the clan weapons probably bring them down to being slightly ahead of the IS overall but its really about which subset of weapons that will be boated and exploited that will cause the problems - so what if the clan ACs are crap for instance if the Gauss is godly etc etc

Many variables - which is what PGI counts on really because it causes all these arguments so can claim balance - but time will narrow it down to an IS meta and clan meta - once those go head to head it will be interesting to see what wins out.

I am more interested in the pure clan vs IS drops in 3/3/3/3 where you cannot mix metas.

[bluepiglet]

Asmudius Heng, on 19 July 2014 - 03:22 AM, said:

Spread damage does make a difference, it is the biggest differentiator in fact.

Range however is hardly ever taken into account by people saying clans are on equal footing - the way to maps work means that range is not always an advantage though it is true and a few weapons gain more from the range increase than others so its a mixed bag.

The spread damage however is also a mixed bag because the argument seems to always assume the enemy is being as defensive as they can - in practice though this is not always the case. Assaults are fat and slow and easier to hit, often you get behind a mech or to the side of a mech before they can begin to evade - in fact with clan weapons its probably best to change targets to the one who is not expecting the attack then the guy who is.

There are so many variables in a team game but the arguments become very narrow because people want to fit them into thier bias view most of the time.

Most people I have seen that are good at analysing these things pretty much agree that a few clan mechs are OP due to having FF and Endo both which is awesome for the clans, the clan XL engine being so hardy, and hitboxes that work well just like some IS mechs work well too.

Weapons wise the disadvantages of the clan weapons probably bring them down to being slightly ahead of the IS overall but its really about which subset of weapons that will be boated and exploited that will cause the problems - so what if the clan ACs are crap for instance if the Gauss is godly etc etc

Many variables - which is what PGI counts on really because it causes all these arguments so can claim balance - but time will narrow it down to an IS meta and clan meta - once those go head to head it will be interesting to see what wins out.

I am more interested in the pure clan vs IS drops in 3/3/3/3 where you cannot mix metas.

The problem about weaponry is while PGI has a reasonably balanced approach toward IS, Clan received much better Energy weapons than their Missiles and Ballistic. It might be seemly evened out because "good energy + mediocre Ballistic + poor missiles = balance", but in reality it is not. Players naturally pick the most powerful weapons at their disposal and since Clan Energy > everything else, it ends up "good energy + good energy + good energy = imbalance"

[Asmudius Heng]

bluepiglet, on 19 July 2014 - 03:38 AM, said:

The problem about weaponry is while PGI has a reasonably balanced approach toward IS, Clan received much better Energy weapons than their Missiles and Ballistic. It might be seemly evened out because "good energy + mediocre Ballistic + poor missiles = balance", but in reality it is not. Players naturally pick the most powerful weapons at their disposal and since Clan Energy > everything else, it ends up "good energy + good energy + good energy = imbalance"

They still have an awesome gauss!

As i said, a new meta will rise within the clans - just as the IS drops the bad weapons it has in favour of a few so will the clans.

More viable weapons across both technologies is really needed they have not even balances IS for IS yet ...

[Creovex]

Sorry to see you are chosing to leave during one of the most balanced and fun periods of this game so far..... if you decide not to come back, can I have your phoenix mechs????

Edited by Creovex, 19 July 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[krash27]

Roland, on 22 June 2014 - 08:38 PM, said:

You don't have a very good grasp of how F2P titles can generate revenue.

roflol I have a very good grasp of how they work thanks. I also have a very good grasp of what companies should and will do to increase that revenue.
Which is their goal, and it should be, they are a company, not a charity.

[Demoncard]

rolandkrash27, on 19 July 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

The purpose of a company is to generate revenue and endeavour to increase that revenue

Not quite. Companies have motives besides revenue, although revenue is indeed important to them.

Edited by Demoncard, 19 July 2014 - 05:42 AM.

[Voivode]

I use both the clan and IS mechs. The balance is actually pretty good. Clan weapons are lighter and more powerful, but they are significantly hotter than IS weapons. Additionally, not being allowed to change structural items or engines does place limits on the clan mechs.

Clan lights will never be traveling at the 150-171 KPH of IS lights. Sure, they'll have more weapons but their speed will never compare.

The limitations for clan mechs are different than IS mechs, and despite being different, I think that PGI did a pretty remarkable job balancing them out. Not many people expected them to pull that off, so kudos to them for getting it right.

[IraqiWalker]

bluepiglet, on 19 July 2014 - 03:38 AM, said:

The problem about weaponry is while PGI has a reasonably balanced approach toward IS, Clan received much better Energy weapons than their Missiles and Ballistic. It might be seemly evened out because "good energy + mediocre Ballistic + poor missiles = balance", but in reality it is not. Players naturally pick the most powerful weapons at their disposal and since Clan Energy > everything else, it ends up "good energy + good energy + good energy = imbalance"

My ON1-K with an AC 20 beats any clan energy boat out there 9 times out of 10, and I'm not even a good pilot with it.

Yeah clan energy weapons are good at dealing damage. They still generate more heat than their IS counterparts, and dealing 40 points of damage within 5 seconds seems awesome, until you realize it's spread ALL over my mech, and then you shut down and over heat, while I'm plopping down 20 points of PP FLD damage right into the CT with no spread. Just from my Side torso, let alone my other side torso with 2 SRM4s that I can keep firing in alpha mode non-stop, with little fear of over-heating before dealing upwards of 300 damage to what I'm shooting at.

Basically, as long as the engagement stays at long range, the clan mechs can do fine with energy weapons. Once it's short range, they will over heat, and die before they can boot back up. Hell, even the C-ERSL has ghost heat.

With the way the clan mechs are set up right now, the only builds that have great success are mixed builds that use all three weapon types, and have varying ranges. PP FLD for clan mechs is just way too costly in heat with the their ERPPCs. However, sustained damage with suppression fire from ACs, accompanied by either LRMs or SRMs allowing the mech to cool back down to fire it's energy weapons again in relative safety is what clan mechs are good at.

The main issue with every thread about clan mechs being OP or DoA, is the same. People make the gigantic mistake of thinking balance means everything has to perform equally. When in fact it should be anything but THAT. Otherwise let's remove all the mechs and weapons from the game. Put everyone in a Hunchback 4P armed with MLs, and call it a day.

Asmudius Heng, on 19 July 2014 - 03:22 AM, said:

I am more interested in the pure clan vs IS drops in 3/3/3/3 where you cannot mix metas.

From the ones I've seen, if the IS set up their poptart lines, just pack your bags and go home, 9 times out of 10 the clan mechs will fall apart into rubble. If the clan mechs actually manage to break through and engage in close range, they have a chance. However, as long as the IS pilots keep the clan mechs within the 400M-700M sweet spot, and not closer, they win, usually in an overwhelming manner.

That's if it's just firing lines. Raven 3Ls are a bigger nightmare now, along with the SDR-5D. Since their ECM and high speed allow them to just out harass the clans and relegate their KFXs and ADRs to scrap heaps, while dictating how the egnagement goes. Lights can harass as they please since the clans have nothing that can move fast enough to pose a liable threat to the IS lights.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying clan mechs don't stand a chance, just that the overwhelming majority of test drops I've seen have ended unfavorably for the clans. About 70% roughly.

[Dirkdaring]

I'm actually doing better in pug matches with my IS vs clan than IS vs IS.

My AC20 / AC10 4xML Jager tears them in a new one once close range combat begins. I still get cored occasionally but for the most part my mech is swiss cheese before I go kablooey. IS vs IS I usually would just lose a torso while other parts were barely scratched.

I can't wait to buy a clan mech tho.

[bluepiglet]

Voivode, on 19 July 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

Clan weapons are lighter and more powerful, but they are significantly hotter than IS weapons.

Completely false.

[Wolfways]

I must be blind...which makes it even more incredible that i keep killing clan mechs!

[IraqiWalker]

bluepiglet, on 19 July 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

Completely false.

Good job with the old Data. C-ERMPLs generate 5.50 heat.

The rest generate equal heat but take longer to finish burning, and the clan ERPPC is just a sad case.
Other than the Clan Pulse lasers which all got a recent buff since they were even worse than their IS counterparts in abysmal levels, all clan energy weapons either generate more heat, or burn a lot longer to deal their damage.

Here's the proper data from Smurfy's, check out the duration, damage and heat for the energy weapons.

Spoiler

Edited by IraqiWalker, 19 July 2014 - 06:38 AM.

[bluepiglet]

IraqiWalker, on 19 July 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

Good job with the old Data. C-ERMPLs generate 5.50 heat.

The rest generate equal heat but take longer to finish burning, and the clan ERPPC is just a sad case.
Other than the Clan Pulse lasers which all got a recent buff since they were even worse than their IS counterparts in abysmal levels, all clan energy weapons either generate more heat, or burn a lot longer to deal their damage.

Are you sure the newer data will aid your case?

The Clan ER PPC makes you so sad, because it's identical to the IS counterpart, except for 50% extra splash damage, and being 17% lighter...... Such depressing for you, isn't it?

Like I said, some players are willing to say anything now, to keep the broken game broken so they can have an edge in weaponry to make up what they are lack in skill.

Edited by bluepiglet, 19 July 2014 - 07:06 AM.

[KuroNyra]

bluepiglet, on 19 July 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

Are you sure the newer data will aid your case?

The Clan ER PPC makes you so sad, because it's identical to the IS counterpart, except for 50% extra splash damage, and being 17% lighter...... Such depressing for you, isn't it?

Like I said, some players are willing to say anything now, to keep the broken game broken so they can have an edge in weaponry to make up what they are lack in skill.

Look out, we've got a badass over here... Not.

No wonder why your crying, just saw you yesterday on terra therma charging like a complete moron in your thunderbolt against 4 mech, and then crying about the opness of the clan mech.




The Clans have some advantage with some weapon, but it's counterbalanced by the multitude of other factor your ALWAYS forgetting on purpose.

But you don't even worth the try, you will just keep telling bullshit and bullshit.$

You only talk about the advantage, not at the disadvantage.

Longer beam duration? Screw it!
Auto-Canon total damage fired in multiple shoot and not just one? Screw it!
Let's not even talk about all the fixed slot you can't change, like an Innersphere mech can, no. That would be completly stupid right?
Fact that it is easier to spread the damage done by a Clan mech than a IS mech? F*ck it!

Ho, but I'm sorry. You don't even own the clan mech, you don't know how they handle, how they are meant to be used, you have so far prooved you had absolutly no experience about what your talking about.

But it's not a surprise from the lambda whiner.

Edited by KuroNyra, 19 July 2014 - 07:35 AM.

[bluepiglet]

KuroNyra, on 19 July 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

snip

My chart was posted in response to the following comment

Voivode, on 19 July 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

Clan weapons are lighter and more powerful, but they are significantly hotter than IS weapons.

whatever you are talking about is not my concern therefore not much was read, you have a nice day there.

[KuroNyra]

bluepiglet, on 19 July 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

My chart was posted in response to the following comment

Doesn't change my answer at all, you are sitll avoiding all the point falsing your statements about the mighty opness of the clans.

But as usual, you will do it again.
Yup, no point continuing arguing with a baby.

Have fun in my ignore list.

Edited by KuroNyra, 19 July 2014 - 07:45 AM.

[Sudden Reversal]

Clan's sucked all the fun out for me. Not cause of any OP they might have, but just because they were meant to be the invasion part of Community Warfare.

All these IS mechs running around with Clan team mates feels like beta again, absolutely no context.

Shame really.

[Biaxialrain]

Hey, they didn't spend $55-500 to lose, right?

I'm often told that the Clans are supposed to be OP.

According to, I guess, lore, but so what?

[Rager Beater]

first of all: your lucky the they dint go with their original specs, because they would be alot better tan they are. second of all THEY ARE BALANCED SO STOP QQING, just a different playstyle.

[Biaxialrain]

Not sure what QQ is or QQ'ing is, probably have to be under 20 y/o to know that.

Anyway, they are not balanced at all, you guys are rationalizing your purchases and your newly found "skills".