349 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

That Dawg, on 15 October 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

its not judgement we lack, its repetitive, nagging insistence that we are wrong, when clearly, a lot more players do not agree with you.

Every stinking time someone comes into this thread and posts a build that is working for them, BOOM, you post another diatribe about all thats wrong with it, and...................how much better the stormhoe is, and how wrong we all are for lacking your Einsteinian vision.
p.s. Can I buy the SC for cbills yet?

C-bill avialability does not have to do with this in any case.

That Dawg, on 15 October 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

You posted a great thread about how wonderful the nova is, then they nerfed it, and you were so hurt, so spurned you became a meme of sorts.

gameplaywise the Nova was never a great mech compared to others, its just the most epic design mech. It was never a good mech and will never be a good one compared to others. It has a load of epically crazy things you cna do with it, but they all are not turning out to be good gameplaywise. But in the end a mechs usage and judgement will mostly be done by its way to be a working mech compared to others. Thats how PvP games work.

Back to topic:

That Dawg, on 15 October 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

I dont have a medium that can run a pair of ERPPC's or a pair of LRL's AND three mediums.
Did you see the thread (headshaking face palm) I ran, for giggles a SIX ERL nova, no armor...kills and damage.
Made me re-think running the 8 ML nova, I LIKE it!
It does run hot, but after a dozen battles in a joke mech, I realized serious potential.
many have noted, you can't charge into battle, you can't scout. You can support your team brilliantly if you pay attention.
Even the vanilla 6ML 4MG loadout works great.
Are there other mechs that can the same or better? Sure, something with missile hardpoints.
Are there other mediums that have the potential for boating energy to the same ability as the nova? I can't think of any.
If you're an average to above average player does any medium have the (energy) versatility this does? Nope

http://mwomercs.com/...ld/page__st__40
last page, pics, screens of an absurd, WORKING nova build

thats your issue, because there is nearly any chassis the IS being able to do that on the same or better level. CN, SHD and KTo are the only ones who can't by lack of E hardpoint number, but still they exceed the Nova by their SRM abilities.


and I don't think your "absurd working Nova build" is that much of cool, ravens with 2 ERLL can do similar or better results, so yes you can do this with nearly any build in a good match. But how reliable can you bring up these results? Especially in higher elo ranks, THAT is what defines the real suability of a mech. Not a few matches out of many.

We can if you want group up and play some matches. We can try out some of the Nova builds. We can see how good and reliable they work by gathering the results of any match, not just the good ones. Because in the Forum many people just post the awesome screens, not the regular or crappy ones.And then, SC will soon be out, we then can test builds with teh SC and see how this comes up. Just to see the difference. Because then the SC is not out fo C-bill argument is invalid.

I played Adder and SC with only 2 PPC's in the torso, and man, that is an evil setup because oyu cna hit others by exposing only around 10% of your mech. You can often not even get returnfire because their hardpoitns are not able to draw a line of fire. A mech is as good as you can make it with a proper build and proper piloting. But a mech is still limited by its mechanics characteristics and facts. And on that table the Nova is already a low tier mech.

[Tesunie]

Lily from animove, on 15 October 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

C-bill avialability does not have to do with this in any case.
...
Because then the SC is not out fo C-bill argument is invalid.

Actually, that is an issue. Not sure about many of the other people here, but I dont have a Stormcrow. So, any comparisons you create using the Stormcrow is a mute subject to me. It doesn't matter as I can't own one yet (without spending real world money I don't have).

Though, on a comparison subject, availability isn't everything, but it does have some influence within the conversation/subject. We can compare the Nova to the Stormcrow, but you do have to also consider it's current inavailability as well.

Lily from animove, on 15 October 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

gameplaywise the Nova was never a great mech compared to others, its just the most epic design mech. It was never a good mech and will never be a good one compared to others. It has a load of epically crazy things you cna do with it, but they all are not turning out to be good gameplaywise. But in the end a mechs usage and judgement will mostly be done by its way to be a working mech compared to others. Thats how PvP games work.
...
thats your issue, because there is nearly any chassis the IS being able to do that on the same or better level. CN, SHD and KTo are the only ones who can't by lack of E hardpoint number, but still they exceed the Nova by their SRM abilities.

And your issue is the fact you don't grasp what we are saying. We aren't saying the Nova is "the best", but at the same time we are advocating that the Nova also isn't "the worst" either. I see the Nova as far more of a middle ground mech. For some people it will run well, and for others it just isn't going to be their thing.

Heck, I have an account where I play nothing but pure stock mechs on it. It's something I enjoy. This doesn't mean that it's going to be a "thing" for everyone.

Also, as you mentioned "posting only the best matches", I shall now leave my stock mech account only statistics for you to peruse at your own leisure.


272 damage a match (a 5.46 damage per ton per match efficiency) isn't a bad number. (Most people I know of consider a 5.0 damage per ton per match to be rather efficient.) I'd have to say it's not a bad mech. from looking at my (stock only) statistics for it.

[That Dawg]

Lily from animove, on 15 October 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

I'm done. You need new bait.

Its just grown tiresome.
You're "argument" hasn't changed.
I'm guessing theres a dozen who know how you feel.
You will not change any ones mind.

Anyone wanting to try it, will. Anyone searching the forums are likely not to, based on the things all who LIKE the mech have said, heat- speed- low arms etc etc

I'd bet most who still have it, have invested a LOT of time, and a lot of CBills (or real money) into the dandy little medium.
Its time to stop now, just stop.

[Lily from animove]

Tesunie, on 15 October 2014 - 05:47 AM, said:

Actually, that is an issue. Not sure about many of the other people here, but I dont have a Stormcrow. So, any comparisons you create using the Stormcrow is a mute subject to me. It doesn't matter as I can't own one yet (without spending real world money I don't have).

Though, on a comparison subject, availability isn't everything, but it does have some influence within the conversation/subject. We can compare the Nova to the Stormcrow, but you do have to also consider it's current inavailability as well.



And your issue is the fact you don't grasp what we are saying. We aren't saying the Nova is "the best", but at the same time we are advocating that the Nova also isn't "the worst" either. I see the Nova as far more of a middle ground mech. For some people it will run well, and for others it just isn't going to be their thing.

Heck, I have an account where I play nothing but pure stock mechs on it. It's something I enjoy. This doesn't mean that it's going to be a "thing" for everyone.

Also, as you mentioned "posting only the best matches", I shall now leave my stock mech account only statistics for you to peruse at your own leisure.


272 damage a match (a 5.46 damage per ton per match efficiency) isn't a bad number. (Most people I know of consider a 5.0 damage per ton per match to be rather efficient.) I'd have to say it's not a bad mech. from looking at my (stock only) statistics for it.

well taking stock only then sure, but when you upgrade the IS mechs, so squeezing out the best of the mechs, then those things look a lot different. Especially with the fact that all those IS mechs don't come with DHS making a huge difference for the engine internal Heatsinks efficiency.

I really wish i wouldn't have made trollbuilds across all my novas, so my stats are screwed by many trialstuff of funmaking. I realyl should have sticked the funbuilds to a single chassis. but even with those gimped stats, I have 5.4 dmg/t efficency in the nova. while the SC differs between 6,23 and 6,9. and I have not yet even mastered those mechs, I 2 days ago unlocked the speedtweak for all of them. So this still will grant me room to get further 7,5 heat dissipation + further heat treshold. And I don' use any modules atm on the crows because I am too poor to equip all those mechs atm.

In a far future, there will be project circada,

where I am going to try and see how much I cna make out of this mech. I like the circada design, and I expect it to exceed what the nova can do because the circada is doing the medium thing better, better hitboxes more swiftness. those quirks, (and they will even get buffed).

build one would be http://mwo.smurfy-ne...75ffb54afaedb7b
build two http://mwo.smurfy-ne...440ecbb760834b5
build three http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ca14f67d6aeb588
build four http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c9782476838fb36


@That Dawg
so lets do it, give us 4 Nova builds, then we play 10 matches in each build together with us both having the same mech. lets see how they turn out.

Edited by Lily from animove, 15 October 2014 - 06:56 AM.

[Tesunie]

Lily from animove, on 15 October 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

well taking stock only then sure,..

I posted up my stock Nova (trial) mech stats, no skills on it. Now, if I'm pulling a ~5.5 damage to ton efficiency in it with no skills and no customizations, what do you think I could do with it with a little customization and with all the skills unlocked? If you are getting 6.5 (taking a rough middle of your stated numbers) damage to ton efficiency with customization and (some) skills on your Stormcrow... I think that is proving the point that the Nova, though not exactly the best clan medium mech around, is not a bad performer. (As stated, it just may not be a mech everyone can easily use either.)

As for the rest of my stats, they just happened to be in the picture with my Nova stats and have no real relation to this discussion. Also, they are stock mechs in public matches, no customizations. I feel that I do fairly well in them, all things considered. (I did say I considered myself an average skill pilot, right? )

[Lily from animove]

Tesunie, on 15 October 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

I posted up my stock Nova (trial) mech stats, no skills on it. Now, if I'm pulling a ~5.5 damage to ton efficiency in it with no skills and no customizations, what do you think I could do with it with a little customization and with all the skills unlocked? If you are getting 6.5 (taking a rough middle of your stated numbers) damage to ton efficiency with customization and (some) skills on your Stormcrow... I think that is proving the point that the Nova, though not exactly the best clan medium mech around, is not a bad performer. (As stated, it just may not be a mech everyone can easily use either.)

As for the rest of my stats, they just happened to be in the picture with my Nova stats and have no real relation to this discussion. Also, they are stock mechs in public matches, no customizations. I feel that I do fairly well in them, all things considered. (I did say I considered myself an average skill pilot, right? )

you can't tweak the nova much more to be much better, because all you can trade is damage for heat management and in reverse. While IS mechs have true upgrades, like DHS which are real upgrades, like ES which is always an upgrade (since medium mechs hardly fill all their slots) or even if wanted XL engines making more tonnage free. But the nova is very much a weapon platform bound to not many differences.

And I doubt you are a average skilled pilot, you already spend to much time in forum and in the game to be a true average skilled pilot.

Edited by Lily from animove, 15 October 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[Tesunie]

Lily from animove, on 15 October 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

you can't tweak the nova much more to be much better, because all you can trade is damage for heat management and in reverse. While IS mechs have true upgrades, like DHS which are real upgrades, like ES which is always an upgrade (since medium mechs hardly fill all their slots) or even if wanted XL engines making more tonnage free. But the nova is very much a weapon platform bound to not many differences.

And I doubt you are a average skilled pilot, you already spend to much time in forum and in the game to be a true average skilled pilot.

Thing is, clan mechs typically come with all the bells and whistles already. They already have DHS and (better) XL engines. Most all of them have FF (which in lore and TT was cheaper to upgrade to, which is why many mechs in lore and TT have FF but not the "better" endo-steel). These upgrades are already on the mech, so it's like you already placed them onto your other mechs. However, unlike those IS mechs you are comparing the Nova to, they can't change their hardpoints around. The Nova still can, so you can create a slightly larger variety (or make all variants of the mech basically the same even) of customs.

My custom Nova prime would probably be removing 2 med lasers for 2 DHS. It's all I feel it really needs. Either that or just the cool run skills (preferably doubled).



Your last comment is inappropriate and rude.
If it matters any, from my standings in with the Stock Mech groups I play with, I actually appear to be a slightly better than average (I tend to be in the upper end of their charts) pilot with my stock mechs. There is a reason I consider myself average though, and my time spent on the forums has little to do with my in game skills.
So, now comes the part where you explain to me what you consider "average skill", and how I "don't fit your perceived description of average", when you don't even know how well I play. (Besides seeing my stock only mech stats, which will not be as good as my main account's stats.) You've never even played beside me... or against me as far as I know.

After rereading your comment, I can't determine what you are saying anymore...

Edited by Tesunie, 15 October 2014 - 10:05 AM.

[Calamus]

So, it sounds - according to reading this thread - that the topic is settled. The Nova is just like any other mech. If it suits your play style, then it's a great mech. If it doesn't, then you're going to be happier in a different mech.

Or are people still not finished beating the horse? It's dead already, it's already deeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadddd....

[Lily from animove]

Tesunie, on 15 October 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

Thing is, clan mechs typically come with all the bells and whistles already. They already have DHS and (better) XL engines. Most all of them have FF (which in lore and TT was cheaper to upgrade to, which is why many mechs in lore and TT have FF but not the "better" endo-steel). These upgrades are already on the mech, so it's like you already placed them onto your other mechs. However, unlike those IS mechs you are comparing the Nova to, they can't change their hardpoints around. The Nova still can, so you can create a slightly larger variety (or make all variants of the mech basically the same even) of customs.

My custom Nova prime would probably be removing 2 med lasers for 2 DHS. It's all I feel it really needs. Either that or just the cool run skills (preferably doubled).



Your last comment is inappropriate and rude.
If it matters any, from my standings in with the Stock Mech groups I play with, I actually appear to be a slightly better than average (I tend to be in the upper end of their charts) pilot with my stock mechs. There is a reason I consider myself average though, and my time spent on the forums has little to do with my in game skills.
So, now comes the part where you explain to me what you consider "average skill", and how I "don't fit your perceived description of average", when you don't even know how well I play. (Besides seeing my stock only mech stats, which will not be as good as my main account's stats.) You've never even played beside me... or against me as far as I know.

But nova does not have much options to change weapons compared to other mechs, because either E or B and with B you can't even for much B into them.

And without knowing your elo, we probably do not know your average thingy or not. But with the time you already spent in the Forum and ingame this is definately more than the average Mechwarrior spends, I am quite sure here. I also considered myself as above average, since I don't play tryhard or competitive. Yet in that worthy adversaries 2 event I made it to place 12 in the clan heavies. So its very unlikely that I am just as much "above average" as I thought. I had to change my mind about where I am located in the skillrange amongst the MWO community. I am not a top gamer of the high competitive league, but yet clearly far above the average gamer. Without even tryharding.
I met people from the black watch community, and they play the game longer than me even in more competitive ranks AND more often and dedicated that i do. But yet most of the people (newbies or longer players) I spoke with say the Nova is a bad mech. I tried to help them finding love for the Nova, but the fact is, it's a bad mech. And making this mech work properly on a regular basis and not just a few out of 10 matches is something that a "just above average" pilot can not do. So you are very likely not just an "above average" pilot. Reconsider your placement, because it seems not to be where you think it is.

And now we can make a small round and speak about other mechs, specifically the adder, while considered as the badder by many, I have strangely much more success with that chassis that I thought it can be afetr all the people's wording:

http://imgur.com/a/VNVw7

have a look at these screens. The adder seems not to be as bad as is looks, every second match within the last 3 days turned out to be quite a good one when I piloted a "badder". But I don't think this is much a reason by the mech, more by me. Since I seem not to be the "above average" pilot I thought. But yet after trying most of the clanmechs, I am quite sure that I can see at the characteristics of a mech if it is good or not in comparison to other mechs. Judged by objective facts judged by the experience of piloting them. And I am unfortunately very close to say: the adder is probably a better mech than the nova, if you play out its strength. The Adder has some very own strenghts, the other mechs don't have. Not even the kitfox. While the kitfox with ecm can laod nearly the same loadout and could make the adder more or less obsolete that is not that much true if you see the real characteristics of the adder. It has some very nice high mounted torso hardpoints giving it a vital edge, if you play that strength.

And probably amongst those screens, you have also seen a single one being a defeat in a stormcrow. Yet scoring there was quite good for something that others would define as a stomp. There are worlds apart between the clanmechs and some are on a table of judgement useless, even IF some people can make them work. But thats not because of the mech working, thats because of the pilots using them.

Objective judgement is not based on some crazy loadouts working in some matches. When that dawg says he just chainfired those CERLL, well then he already had a load of luck being able to chainfire them into an opponent, because normally in a match with opponents having awareness he would in that time already ate some dualgauss shots giving him serious issues.

Thats why I offered him to play some matches with me, to see how reliable this build works.Because that is the true capabilityof a mech. Not the one good match.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Lily from animove, on 15 October 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

It is not as good as I want it to be so it SUCKS
Doesn't matter how well anyone else does in it
Doesn't matter what anyone else says
It is not as good as I want it to be so it SUCKS
END OF STORY

Only nova I have had problems with (with the default pods) is the NVA-B

[Lily from animove]

Shar Wolf, on 15 October 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Only nova I have had problems with (with the default pods) is the NVA-B

so you think all mechs are balanced because there is always a guy beeing good in one of the worst mechs MWO has? because that is what your changed quote implies.

make the NVA B a 2 PPC mech and it works as fine as any 2 PPC mech. quite ok. it still has its downside of being fat and slow, but 2 PPC's are a working thing always.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...290cd066285738f

people say PPC's are useless, and still my 2 PPC adder and SC are still working extremely well.

Edited by Lily from animove, 15 October 2014 - 12:21 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Lily from animove, on 15 October 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

because that is what your changed quote implies.

Only if you are so butthurt about it not being as strong as YOU WANT IT that that is how you take it

Edit:
In other words

Lily from animove, on 15 October 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

I am soooo Butthurt! about it not being as strong as I WANT IT! that anyone who is fine with it MUST be of the belief that it is the strongest! despite all the times they have outright stated otherwise!

Because being fine with it =/= believing it is the best
Despite your brain damage ramblings otherwise

Edited by Shar Wolf, 15 October 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Shar Wolf, on 15 October 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

Only if you are so butthurt about it not being as strong as YOU WANT IT that that is how you take it

Edit:
In other words


Because being fine with it =/= believing it is the best
Despite your brain damage ramblings otherwise

A mech is fine when the competitive scene considers using it, and this scene doesn't. it is not fien when the majority hates it.
I want every mech to have a valid and competitive place in this game, because that is making the game more fun by having more diversity in mechchoice by not screwing your skills or the teams ability you drop with.
But for someone like you running around in a TW, this is of course not wanted with a top food chain mech, which I could pull out rank 12 in the event by not even tryign hard, by driving it with half brain afk. because those people on the bright side don't want to share their shiny light with others.

Shar Wolf, on 15 October 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

stop trying to balance stuff and telling the truth about mechs having issues. I want all to believe all mechs are fine so I can run around and own everyone in my OP-Wolf with half the brain afk and one hand at my dongel. I DON'T WANT other mechs beeing more competitive to mine

See I can also make stupid assumptions what people talk and do want as much as you can.

Edited by Lily from animove, 15 October 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Lily from animove, on 15 October 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

See I can also make stupid assumptions what people talk and do want as much as you can.

Take a look at any competitive game and there will be characters/units/whatever that are not considered competitive

Exception?
Chess and Checkers style games where both sides have the exact same pieces with no variation allowed.

See?

You can make STUPID ASSumptions far better than I can.
Guess that means you win the argument.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 15 October 2014 - 12:32 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Shar Wolf, on 15 October 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

Take a look at any competitive game and there will be characters/units/whatever that are not considered competitive

Exception?
Chess and Checkers style games where both sides have the exact same pieces with no variation allowed.

See?

You can make STUPID ASSumptions far better than I can.
Guess that means you win the argument.

Oh and because in competitive scene tehre are dead things (and no one ever tried to balance items in these scenes) we shoudl just keep dead mechs dead. WOW, what logic. You have a bad taste in terms of balance a bad taste in objectivity. And that assumption was rather much an easteregg for you. Because at the moment you started to try getting personal you left the way of being objective. Which is the worst base for a healthy conversation based on facts.

So why does PGI do all the effort of mechbalancing? that fat list of sorting IS mechs into tiers? When in the end all they are wrong, because I am sure I find a single pilot saying, "I did well in that mech once and so its fine"

And chess is even a bad example, because one starts before the other does, making this already an invalid unequal situation. Nearly any logic withing your own (chain of) arguments is flawed within itself.

[Xoxim SC]

I personally find the Nova useless, unless you go with the PPC builds (which I refuse to do). Running it with the general ERML build, whether it be 5-6 or 12, it's not all that stellar. I prefer using my Stormcrow, personally, especially since I can actually outfit it with some decent firepower and not just a lot of little poke.

[Red Scorpion]

Only read first post because I know my answer to this question.

I keep my main groups chain fire, separated the arms. A good 42 damage in preferred range per arm. First shot sees if I have a beat on the target with my low slung arm. To see if it's clear of terrain and friendlies. If it is, and heat allowing I hit the arm alpha weapon group that lights up the other 5 lasers in that arm on target. Otherwise if I overheat I glance at my heat and tell myself "ok 80% I can fire 3 lasers in slow chain fire or stop to fire four then retreat". Basically 2 lasers in slow fire is 12% higher than before. Because all 6 gets you 67% or so with an elited mech, and 75% or so with a trial un-touched mech.

I have been known to shut down by accident by clicking once too many, but I turn back on really quickly because I don't over do the heat.

I fire the first full arm as I get around a corner, stop to fire the left arm just after that then I fire the just-cooled off arm as I retreat then shut down while my mech slows down to a halt just behind cover. I get off a whopping 126 damage in ONE PEEK! Also, an elited mech will not shut down too quickly and most of that third shot will be aim-able as you shut down at the tail end of it.

It is a nasty mech and every gun is on a full pivoting arm for being so low slung. Also, losing half your weapons only means you can fire the other arm more often, most mechs can make due with 6 mediums anyway.

Also if you're about to die in front of a Dire Wolf or some slow target, fire every laser and overheat as you're about to pop. You could get that whole 84 damage off before you go down. Maybe even kill something.

Powerful, the debuff to the lasers by +1 heat per laser may not be enough of a nerf. I plan on owning 3 novas in all the variations of mix-weapons of:
2 ersmall, 2 ermedium, 2 large pulse lasers
almost stock prime (armor adjustment, front load it a bit)
2erll 6 small laser +2 heat sink laser vomit style

Edited by Red Scorpion, 15 October 2014 - 01:43 PM.

[Tesunie]

I think the point here is still: The Nova may not be the greatest mech, or even top tier mech, but it isn't useless and it isn't the worst mech either. It's a mech that runs somewhere in the middle of the gauntlet of mechs. I'd rank it as a tier 3 mech out of 5 tiers. It's not the worst, but it isn't the best either. In the right hands, it can be very deadly. As with all mechs, in the wrong hands and it can preform very poorly. In this particular case, very poorly often means "overheated and melted oneself to their own destruction".

[Dakkaface]

[majority of post redacted because posts made in frustration and anger are rarely good]

Nobody is arguing that the Nova is top tier. Nobody, especially post laser nerf is saying anything of the sort. We're all saying that it is not useless.

The Nova is not the worst mech. It is not the best mech. It is middle of the road. In good hands it can do very well. In poor hands, it does poorly. But most of all, it is clearly not useless

Edited by Dakkaface, 16 October 2014 - 02:48 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

Nova is the best 50 ton 'mech but not the best Medium. Obviously HBK-4P would be its 50 ton IS counterpart. Lets face it though, since ghost heat is even steven at 6 lasers, just 6 ERML will easily outperform 9ML.

I like 6ERML -or- 5ERML and 5 Machineguns. For lng range. I would go with 3 C/ERLL

I think a lot of people are occupied with why 12ERML runs too hot.....