121 replies to this topic

[Oni Ralas]

Hotthedd, on 22 June 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

TAG and LRMs are different things.

No **** Sherlock - I was telling you about how the *good* LRM boats do it since you were tying to build a case against indirect fire being point n' click. You know, we carry our own anti-ecm measures and take *MORE* risks than any of the ac/ppc meta players do. I take pride in that.

[darkchylde]

Oni Ralas, on 22 June 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

No **** Sherlock - I was telling you about how the *good* LRM boats do it since you were tying to build a case against indirect fire being point n' click. You know, we carry our own anti-ecm measures and take *MORE* risks than any of the ac/ppc meta players do. I take pride in that.

Very true - I see a lot of Lrm mechs that bring their own tag and narcs.

[Wolfways]

Hotthedd, on 22 June 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

At least the PPC/Gauss/AC mech will have to AIM to hit you, and, in the process, expose himself you return fire.

Sorry but that is completely wrong. You may have to aim to hit a specific component (i.e. ct, leg, etc.) but you really don't need to aim just to hit a mech, unless you are firing at a very long range like 1000m+ and even then it is much easier than in the other fps games ive played. With LRM's you don't even get that choice, or that range.

[Barantor]

So I guess no love for a poptarting lrm boat?

[Wolfways]

Hotthedd, on 22 June 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

The LRM mech does NOT have to expose itself. If anyone else on his team has line of sight, its bombs away.

PGI forced that by making LRM's such a bad direct-fire weapon. Using them in direct-fire is almost suicide.

[Oni Ralas]

Barantor, on 22 June 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

So I guess no love for a poptarting lrm boat?

SHhhh...don't give away our secret!

(but it kinda sucks to go airborn right now with the missile lock bug. Hate having a volley end up in the dirt)

[Felicitatem Parco]

Wolfways, on 22 June 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

PGI forced that by making LRM's such a bad direct-fire weapon. Using them in direct-fire is almost suicide.

Not entirely... I had a good stint of running a super-fast trebuchet and using direct-fire between cover very well. The point was to not use them in a face-to-face brawl so that I never closed range and never stopped to present myself as a slow target. Unfortunately, it relied on radar decay to hold a lock as I ran between buildings and popped out every 2-3 seconds, so I never lost lock and used the LRMs as short/medium-range direct fire weapons.

Radar Deprivation will make the LRMs less useful for that playstyle... which makes me sad. It'll reduce the roles of LRMs to merely a spotter-assisted weapon. Well, I guess that is what it was made for.

[Oni Ralas]

Wolfways, on 22 June 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

PGI forced that by making LRM's such a bad direct-fire weapon. Using them in direct-fire is almost suicide.

Direct fire LRM's is how I roll! No one expects the flying Timber Wolf of DOOM!!!

[anonymous161]

get better.

[Wolfways]

Hotthedd, on 22 June 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Nice ad hominem attack.

Personally, I know how to avoid dying to LRMs under normal circumstances.
My problem is more along the lines of LRMs being a crutch for unskilled players. NOTHING against the good LRM using players out there.

...although you did seem to take it personally....Hmmmm.

Sorry it wasn't a personal attack against you. I'm just sick of all the players whining about "OP LRMs" when what they are moaning about is only indirect-fire, not the weapon itself which is imo a very bad weapon, yet they get PGI to keep the weapon bad.
I know how to avoid LRM's with only cover. I don't use AMS, ECM, or any other countermeasure because they are not needed once you L2P (i hate that term but it's just true).

If someone who uses LRM's as "crutch" goes to a higher ELO range they will be complaining that their LRM's suck, because better players don't let themselves get killed by LRM's.

[Dirkdaring]

Wolfways, on 22 June 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

Sorry it wasn't a personal attack against you. I'm just sick of all the players whining about "OP LRMs" when what they are moaning about is only indirect-fire, not the weapon itself which is imo a very bad weapon, yet they get PGI to keep the weapon bad.
I know how to avoid LRM's with only cover. I don't use AMS, ECM, or any other countermeasure because they are not needed once you L2P (i hate that term but it's just true).

If someone who uses LRM's as "crutch" goes to a higher ELO range they will be complaining that their LRM's suck, because better players don't let themselves get killed by LRM's.

If you're under cover the entire match you aren't helping your team. It's impossible to remain under cover and fight for a whole game. You aren't gods gift to MWO, I have yet even watching pro teams play see someone who can always avoid LRM fire.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

lrm's are very useful on slower mechsin random games because teams are uncoordinated and it allows you to influence any of the numerous skirmishes that will happen and end before you reach them.

most of the games in my direwolf consist of me chasing the battle firing lrms. I only really use my close in weapons when people actually cross my path.

on faster mechs though... i'd only use lrm's on a faster mech if i wanted to boat lrm's. Fast mechs can really utilize lrm well because you can reposition several times per skirmish to get shots. Although if you do boat you really need to play with an ecm light or medium that can tag and/or narc.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 22 June 2014 - 12:14 PM.

[Lootee]

Barantor, on 22 June 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

So I guess no love for a poptarting lrm boat?

The poptarts are just angry because you've out poptarded them. You can pogo up, stick a Narc on them and then keep the INCOMING MISSILES warning on their screen for 30 seconds without them ever seeing you again.

If they follow standard poptarting protocol they'll pick the lowest obstacle to stand behind (one low enough that they can peek over it with their 1-2 jumpjets). It might not protect them from your missiles. If nothing else they won't be jumping up and down to take shots at people while the Narc lasts.

Double win, LRMs get a boost and the poptart meta gets screwed.

Edit: I'm thinking of making a Crowd Control Kit Fox with a Narc and just a LRM5 with 6 or 7 tons of ammo. Stick the Narc on a poptarder or something big and mean (Fatlas, Direwhale, Warchunk will do) and then just keep the INCOMING MISSILES flashing on their screen the whole time. They might just hide for the duration and not contribute much for their team.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 22 June 2014 - 12:33 PM.

[Novakaine]

And here we go again.
Tactics 101
#1. Don't be the obvious target.
#2. Don't walk into the stream.
#3. Don't stand still refer to point #1.
#4. Kill the boats first.
#5. Teamwork is not OP use it.

[wanderer]

Hotthedd, on 22 June 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Like I said, I'm not calling them OP, it just makes me laugh when people (usually LRM boat players) try to explain that they are not easy to play.

A weapon is easy to use when I can kill people easily with it.

LRMs are only easy to use against terribads who cannot into cover, countermeasures, or being smart enough to stick with their ECM (or worse, have no ECM).

LRMs are easy to SHOOT. Give me a match against a good group of players, and my average LRM damage gets cut in half, or quartered, or worse. On some maps, I might as well not have fired them at all. Case in point:



Looks like another noskill game, right?

Four of those kills were at under 350m, one of them took me dumb-firing missiles, and all of those were direct-fire shots. Number five was going after a fully armed brawler TWF armed with a single ERLL and two MG's, since I'd lobbed 1800 LRMs in and that's all she wrote for the launchers. I had to kill every one of them under ECM, which meant keeping TAG running, hitting them from every unexpected angle I could find, and not getting bludgeoned to death by massively superior firepower from the oldschool meta-style Highlander, SRM-packed Shadow Hawk, or Timber Wolf. Or the K2, for that matter. I'll call the ECM Cicada a mostly even match, but that's the one I had to dumb-fire LRMs at to get the kill combined with laser fire. Killing them was like trying to pry up a redwood tree with a rusty crowbar. The team definitely helped in keeping them from getting in on me all at once, because any two of them would have butchered me together.

The Stalker in my lance was a more conventional LRM bomber type, lobbing shots in from long range. Despite 50 tubes to my 30 and more ammo, you can see the difference in effectiveness, and I know he's not a bad pilot. He's just not an aggressive LRM pilot, and aggressive is what gets through the usual defenses- some of the time.

Edited by wanderer, 22 June 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[Hotthedd]

darkchylde, on 22 June 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

You failed to answer the question?

Crutch Really? - it takes more effort to maintain a lock then point and click.

So....Streaks are really hard to use too?

Oni Ralas, on 22 June 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

No **** Sherlock - I was telling you about how the *good* LRM boats do it since you were tying to build a case against indirect fire being point n' click. You know, we carry our own anti-ecm measures and take *MORE* risks than any of the ac/ppc meta players do. I take pride in that.

LOL!
Nice try in wanting to make this about snipers, it isn't, its about LRM boats.
(They are very easy to play and do well in)

[Hotthedd]

wanderer, on 22 June 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

A weapon is easy to use when I can kill people easily with it.

LRMs are only easy to use against terribads who cannot into cover, countermeasures, or being smart enough to stick with their ECM (or worse, have no ECM).

LRMs are easy to SHOOT. Give me a match against a good group of players, and my average LRM damage gets cut in half, or quartered, or worse. On some maps, I might as well not have fired them at all. Case in point:



Looks like another noskill game, right?

Four of those kills were at under 350m, one of them took me dumb-firing missiles, and all of those were direct-fire shots. Number five was going after a fully armed brawler DDC armed with a single ERLL and two MG's, since I'd lobbed 1800 LRMs in and that's all she wrote for the launchers. I had to kill every one of them under ECM, which meant keeping TAG running, hitting them from every unexpected angle I could find, and not getting bludgeoned to death by massively superior firepower from the oldschool meta-style Highlander, SRM-packed Shadow Hawk, or Atlas. Or the K2, for that matter. I'll call the ECM Cicada a mostly even match, but that's the one I had to dumb-fire LRMs at to get the kill combined with laser fire. Killing them was like trying to pry up a redwood tree with a rusty crowbar. The team definitely helped in keeping them from getting in on me all at once, because any two of them would have butchered me together.

The Stalker in my lance was a more conventional LRM bomber type, lobbing shots in from long range. Despite 50 tubes to my 30 and more ammo, you can see the difference in effectiveness, and I know he's not a bad pilot. He's just not an aggressive LRM pilot, and aggressive is what gets through the usual defenses- some of the time.

Your evidence and accompanying story do not dispute my point.

[wanderer]

Hotthedd, on 22 June 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

LOL!
Nice try in wanting to make this about snipers, it isn't, its about LRM boats.
(They are very easy to play and do well in)

I would love to see you play in a game vs. folks like heimdelight (or indeed any competitive-level 12-man) and promptly smash your keyboard through the monitor in frustration. Trying to get missile kills on good players is like pulling teeth from an angry, cranky lion that will bite your hand off the second you try and get the pliers anywhere near their mouth.

It's easy to play an LRM boat against bad players and unprepared PUGs. Doing the same vs. even a prepared premade lance will be an exercise in frustration. Do it against a good 12-man and you'll mostly kill the terrain before dying yourself, if you do it at the levels of skill it takes to kill PUGs.

Hotthedd, on 22 June 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

Your evidence and accompanying story do not dispute my point.

Perhaps noting that my kills were on the 'Mechs that between them had killed just as many of my team themselves might make an impression. That is, they'd already reamed my entire team and were quite capable of killing me, had I been unskilled myself- and had mostly crippled the other members of my team- the Kintaro and Catapult were out of ammo well before that and the Adder was half-gone, and had obliterated the base defenses for good measure. They had the Cicada shielding them nearly the entire time- and by the time it was dead, I was out of LRM ammo.

Edited by wanderer, 22 June 2014 - 12:57 PM.

[Hotthedd]

wanderer, on 22 June 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

I would love to see you play in a game vs. folks like heimdelight and promptly smash your keyboard through the monitor in frustration. Trying to get missile kills on good players is like pulling teeth from an angry, cranky lion that will bite your hand off the second you try and get the pliers anywhere near their mouth.

It's easy to play an LRM boat against bad players and unprepared PUGs. Doing the same vs. even a prepared premade lance will be an exercise in frustration. Do it against a good 12-man and you'll mostly kill the terrain before dying yourself, if you do it at the levels of skill it takes to kill PUGs.

Yes, this is true. Bishop Steiner has already made that point. The better the enemy, the harder it is (moreso for LRMs)


For the record, you can often find me playing on some very good 12 man teams.

[mogs01gt]

WTF are these players talking about!! I rarely see LRM boats. Hell half the time I wish there was more because Im running my 3m and providing locks!!!