894 replies to this topic

[Spades Kincaid]

Adiuvo, on 23 June 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

Only so far the suggestions proposed have completely killed that game mechanic rather than help balance it or make it an incredibly frustrating endeavor. The only suggestion I like is Bishop Steiner's .5 second shake on the way down thing, though I think with fall damage especially .5 sec is a bit too long.

Anyways, AC5/PPC mechs are not exactly a problem on the ground. Is a 3xAC5/2xPPC Banshee unduly scary or overpowered? No. What makes these mechs broke is the jump jets. Mitigating how much you can jump, increasing the sacrifices made to mount JJs, and just in general lowing jump DPS is a good way to change up jumpsniping. Through this the mechanic can have a higher skill floor without being subject to RNG and even with perfect play be less effective than it once was, primarily through the loss of heatsinks.

I do like hearing the perspectives from players engaged in the high end of competition. Especially when most of it has been thoughtful and moderate in tone (not unduly arrogant). So, good to hear thoughts from people like yourself, heim etc.

That said, I'd disagree with this.

The jump jets magnify it. But they aren't the cause of it. The Banshee with 3xAC5/2xPPC isn't scary to a meta Victor or Cataphract with 2xAC5/2xPPC. Because it can't jump. But it's plenty scary to any other non-jumping mech or to any mech not using meta weapon loadouts.

Jump jets further narrow the pinnacle of the meta, but they aren't the root of it.

In other words, you could take jump jets completely out of the game and the meta mech options might broaden or shift, but the meta weapons would not change.

Would you consider the Banshee with that loadout scary (ie - a threat) to any other non-jumping mech?
[ or to a Victor with no JJ's? ]
Would you consider it scary (a threat) to any mech that could jump, but wasn't using meta weapons?
[ or to a Victor with LL's and SRM's? ]

If you would, then it's not the jump jets that are the main problem.

It's the massed PPFLD. Jumping is simply the superior PPFLD delivery method. It synergizes with it. Nerf that delivery method or take it away and it may narrow the meta gap a bit but the PPFLD will still be dominant.

Currently:

1) JJ + massed PPLFD
2) massed PPFLD
3) JJ + non PPLFD
4) non PPLFD

That's what I consider the simplified power tiers.

There's a notable gap btwn 1 and 2. And btwn 2 and 3.

Not as much between 3 and 4 because without PPFLD jumping becomes more just the mobility tool advantage it should be. It's not magnifying a point and click massed PPFLD damage delivery advantage.

Is closing the gap btwn 1 and 2 good? Sure. Is it a full solution to the meta? I don't believe so.

Edited by Spades Kincaid, 23 June 2014 - 06:32 PM.

[Roland]

heimdelight, on 23 June 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

1v1 vs. Zensei

Video: http://www.twitch.tv...light/c/4524161



You did say at the end, "you be bad" and then disconnected.

I appreciate the kind words here but your sportsmanship was very poor.

lol @ the madcat running 90 kph with speed tweak.
Come on folks... are people really trying to say that's merely balanced with existing mechs?

[R Razor]

Adiuvo, on 23 June 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

. Besides Lords,

You asking me to 'police' them is like me asking you to police people on the forum, just because you post here. It doesn't make sense.

Given that the "Lords" have, in my experience and apparently judging by in-game chat reaction as well as numerous posts in the forums, earned a reputation for being amongst the most classless group of people in the game, I'd say you just proved a point.

You are judged by the folks you associate with, right or wrong, that's just how it is......they aren't (I suspect anyway) family, you weren't born to them and aren't forced to associate with them after all. I've been in games you were in, you are as bad or worse than a lot of them, so again, police yourselves and maybe your input won't be greeted with instant negativity.

[heimdelight]

L e 0, on 23 June 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

he said he could beat any mech at range i said to prove it and that id wreak him at range one guess what he did? also instead fled the one win instead of playing set go figure

Blame it on whatever you want. I gave you Forest Colony Snow with the Comm Tower side of the map. I ran into open water essentially charging you, allowing you to hit me with multiple shots before I got in.

If you were such a good sniper, you would not have missed so many open shots on me. If I had actually played you, you would not stand a chance. You had so many advantages, and still lost due to overheating mid-battle. That's why you don't even deserve a second game. You talk so much **** but can't hit your shots while I close in.

1v1 vs. l e 0
http://www.twitch.tv...light/c/4524386

LORD HEIMDELIGHT
ggclose

I'll upload the video ASAP.

Edited by heimdelight, 23 June 2014 - 06:42 PM.

[P e n u m b r a]

heimdelight, on 23 June 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

Blame it on whatever you want. I gave you Forest Colony Snow with the Comm Tower side of the map. I ran into open water essentially charging you, allowing you to hit me with multiple shots before I got in.

If you were such a good sniper, you would not have missed so many open shots on me. If I had actually played you, you would not stand a chance. You had so many advantages, and still lost due to overheating mid-battle. That's why you don't even deserve a second game. You talk so much **** but can hit your shots while I close in.

LORD HEIMDELIGHT
ggclose

I'll upload the video ASAP.

specificity said id wreak you at range and if you could to fight me at range and win what happend? never said id win a brawl you took the one win and fled the scene. And i hit every shot on the crossing you missed all of them but one.

Edited by L e 0, 23 June 2014 - 06:40 PM.

[Gyrok]

Roland, on 23 June 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

If you don't care about winning, then why care about any of this balance stuff? Load up your TBR with flamers and machine guns and derp it up all ya want.

I gotta figure that a lot of the folks arguing here totally DO care about winning, despite their suggestions to the contrary.


So the P2W concept now extends to the forum?
Pay 2 Post?

My point is, people are raising posts constantly about weight and crit slots, and have no idea WTF they are talking about. Crit slots and weight are FAR more precious on clan mechs than they are on IS mechs, by a LARGE margin. If you started tinkering with all the weights and crit slots it would do 2 things:

1. Make the mechs basically unplayable, because their weapons and crit slots are designed to work with the mech construction rules.

2. Break even stock builds which had only 1T of ammo per launcher/cannon typically and just enough heatsinks to be viable with energy weapons.

[Adiuvo]

R Razor, on 23 June 2014 - 06:35 PM, said:

Given that the "Lords" have, in my experience and apparently judging by in-game chat reaction as well as numerous posts in the forums, earned a reputation for being amongst the most classless group of people in the game, I'd say you just proved a point.

You are judged by the folks you associate with, right or wrong, that's just how it is......they aren't (I suspect anyway) family, you weren't born to them and aren't forced to associate with them after all. I've been in games you were in, you are as bad or worse than a lot of them, so again, police yourselves and maybe your input won't be greeted with instant negativity.

Oh lol. Whatever dude. If you want to think I'm an ass you can go ahead and think I'm an ass. What I post here won't convince you otherwise because it's more convenient for you to keep that view.

L e 0, on 23 June 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

specificity said id wreak you at range and if you could to fight me at range and win what happend? never said id win a brawl you took the one win and fled the scene

You started off on the strong side of Forest Colony for a sniper fight, you got free shots on him, and you couldn't damage him enough before he got in range... it's not like you started one grid square away from him. You started an entire map away. And then you shut down.

You got outplayed man, just suck it up.

Edited by Adiuvo, 23 June 2014 - 06:42 PM.

[Gyrok]

Roland, on 23 June 2014 - 06:35 PM, said:

lol @ the madcat running 90 kph with speed tweak.
Come on folks... are people really trying to say that's merely balanced with existing mechs?

Are you insinuating a CTF @ 86-87 kph is any different?

[Adiuvo]

Gyrok, on 23 June 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

Are you insinuating a CTF @ 86-87 kph is any different?

Yep. Doing that requires an IS XL engine, which dies with one side torso gone. The Mad Cat doesn't.

Big difference in survivability between those two due to that.

[heimdelight]

L e 0, on 23 June 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

specificity said id wreak you at range and if you could to fight me at range and win what happend? never said id win a brawl you took the one win and fled the scene. And i hit every shot on the crossing you missed all of them but one.

Oh yeah, because the game is specifically long range sniping. Please stop making excuses for all the advantages you had while still losing. You can't back up the talk :/

http://www.twitch.tv...light/c/4524386

[P e n u m b r a]

heimdelight, on 23 June 2014 - 06:46 PM, said:

Oh yeah, because the game is specifically long range sniping. Please stop making excuses for all the advantages you had while still losing. You can't back up the talk :/

http://www.twitch.tv...light/c/4524386

Listen dude read what i said you named a scenario that you would beat any mech at range I said id beat you at range, I said prove it and fight me at range in the lobby you never fought at range eod.

Edited by L e 0, 23 June 2014 - 06:48 PM.

[Glory in the Highest]

[Roland]

Gyrok, on 23 June 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

Are you insinuating a CTF @ 86-87 kph is any different?

Given that the CTF running an XL dies when it loses a side torso?
Yes. It is quite a bit different.

[Mystere]

Adiuvo, on 23 June 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

What Ghogiel says is what Ghogiel says, not what the competitive scene says

Sure. But as the old saying goes:

Birds of a feather flock together

< jk , but you get my drift>

Edited by Mystere, 23 June 2014 - 06:50 PM.

[heimdelight]

L e 0, on 23 June 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

Listen dude read what i said you named a scenario that you would beat any mech at range I said id beat you at range, I said prove it and fight me at range in the lobby you never fought at range eod.

For your continuous insolence I am hereby rejecting all further 1v1 challenges from you. You lost to me, live with it.

This is a team-game, anyways. I don't see any league titles or solo-tournament titles under your belt. I think you have a lot of catching up to do.

Until next time, l e 0, please stop whining to me about why you lost. It won't change what happened. You knew I wasn't going to just do long range from the beginning. Sorry!

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 June 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

All respect... You will take one of the best Pop Tarts and win. You call that a challenge? Now if you said you'd take an Awesome and win, That would warrant some respect.

I find it disrespectful to not bring your A-game to an obvious challenge.

[Gyrok]

Roland, on 23 June 2014 - 06:49 PM, said:

Given that the CTF running an XL dies when it loses a side torso?
Yes. It is quite a bit different.

Ok, so you can either:

1. make an exception for engine size for only 1 chassis in the game that pays a HUGE penalty in tonnage and crit slots to run that engine and go that fast...

OR

2. Accept that everyone knew what the TW was going to be the day the package dropped...people knew clan XLs only had 2 crit slots in side torsos, and Sarna is available for anyone to read...the TW goes 86 kph in canon, 81 in MWO and 89 after speed tweak. Now look at the Dire Wolf, it barely does what it is supposed to do in canon AFTER speed tweak, that is based on their engine rules as well.

The mobility is not going anywhere...it is the HALLMARK of the mech...and it can only carry so many things because of that mobility. I know it is impossible for some people to fathom...however, the reality is, THAT IS WHAT CLAN MECHS DO...they go fast and many have limited loadouts to achieve that speed. Consider yourselves fortunate we are not running stock only...then clan mechs would still do 89 kph after speed tweak while most IS chassis would struggle to break 71 kph, and lights would be only marginally faster than Clan mechs with inferior weapon loadouts... THANK THE HEAVENS that we cannot put clan tech in IS mechs...you think clan mechs are OP? Let them play by IS customization rules...then see what happens...

[Spades Kincaid]

Any chance of this returning to a discussion? It was doing so (relatively) well....

[Vassago Rain]

R Razor, on 23 June 2014 - 06:35 PM, said:

Given that the "Lords" have, in my experience and apparently judging by in-game chat reaction as well as numerous posts in the forums, earned a reputation for being amongst the most classless group of people in the game, I'd say you just proved a point.

You are judged by the folks you associate with, right or wrong, that's just how it is......they aren't (I suspect anyway) family, you weren't born to them and aren't forced to associate with them after all. I've been in games you were in, you are as bad or worse than a lot of them, so again, police yourselves and maybe your input won't be greeted with instant negativity.

Their reputation, like my reputation for being an elite hacker on steroids, and the worst player in the game, is almost entirely made up by bad pubbies and legends coming out of the ghetto.

Did you know that when I introduce myself as LORD VASSAGO RAIN in pub drops, they all think I'm really with the LORDS? I mean, come on.

[Sky Legacy]

wow Zensei you're a horrid pilot either that or a troll. He goes up against one of the top pilots in the game in a Centurion