513 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 June 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

I'm eating lunch

I've not been a fan of Heroes being bought by just anyone... I'm Sentimental.

Are you typing with the sandwich?

[Nik Reaper]

1453 R, on 26 June 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

Are you typing with the sandwich?

Is she hot and powerfull?

[Joseph Mallan]

1453 R, on 26 June 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

Are you typing with the sandwich?

Left handed! Do I have to have perfect punctuation considering, my last English class was almost 20 years ago???

Nik Reaper, on 26 June 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Is she hot and powerfull?

My Wife? Hel Yaeh

[Sundervine]

Do you like playing this game? If so stop the threads like this, stop complaining.
I understand you think you are slighted for some reason, either because you did not want, or did not have the finances to purchase something for this game.

If they do not put enough incentive for people to purchase a product from them then the servers WILL close and the game you seem to love will be GONE.

If the incentive would have been same day release but you get all the mechs like one here proposed, half or less would have spent money on this games full pack lowering their income by a tremendous amount.

If that happense the game goes under, plain and simple. Either stop complaining and be happy you have the game or stop playing because you do not want the game to comtinue. Without incentive there is not enough money to continue developement. You really think if all the poeple that believed this way were paying enough on paint and patterns, p2w by the way in certain situations, they would have do not this? No, they would have instead put as many mechs out with as many new paint colors and patterns as possible to make more money. Those items do not make enough money! The community is to small for them to continue without some other incentive.

Please understand I understand you dont like pay 2 win, neither do i, if you want to make that argument then remake the thread on something that can be considered pay 2 win, the DS. Clan mechs release was an incentive to get people to spend money! That way this game you care enough about to make a thread and reply to this often WILL go under, paint and patterns do not pay the bills, they got enough flak for cool shot and the like that they will probably not do that again either which is less money in the bank for developement.

Please just stop, if you dont want the game to continue then feel free to continue, remember every other MW game you have played you had plenty of P2W. You either bought the new mechs or you did not. Did you flame them for it back then?

Im sorry this is tiring when you will have access soon enough.

Edited by Sundervine, 26 June 2014 - 04:43 PM.

[Nik Reaper]

^ So can we agree that yes there is ptw elements here ( wich PGI seem to deem needed to survive ) , they, for now, aren't too large that we can't swallow them and that we should keep watch for things that can and will break the camils back and start another round of community warfare , and keep pressing PGI to try and slightly move from that direction?

Edited by Nik Reaper, 26 June 2014 - 04:44 PM.

[Atheus]

Nik Reaper, on 26 June 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

While I don't personally like the tone and the sarcasam of the OP why can's everyone here just agree on this:

There should have never been Hero mechs that have different stast from the regular ones, not better, not worse , just never different. The whole hero mech thing, being heros of lore, then just maid up, with different hardpoints and engine restrictions is a bomb waiting to go... This was a mistake but they wanted the money and they went with it, and in truth it's not the end of the road, but let's agree that in any game that wants to be balanced you dont sell opportunaty for money, or I might want to buy with money zealots in SC2 that have +2 to attack but mby they cost 2 mineral more... seems fair right... RIGHT? ( I don't play much but I'm sure someone would somehow build a strategy around it and the rest would have to adapt to it making them more uncomfortable or just unviable , and yes something that alters mechanics to make your play style uncomfortable by it's self is an advantage ) . They should have just stayed with regular varients with castum geometry, paint scheme and cbill,xp bonuses.
Fortunatly the case here is not nearly as bad but admit it is there!
Admit that this is not fair, but so is paying taxes that go to thing you don't use, visit or care about but are forced to anyway...

Now if you can admit that the only other thing is to just decide where do we draw the line.
What is the line for, it's there to rase the alarm and do what we did before with consumables, the community warfare ( community vs devs ) , and make sure that an equal in game cbill paying option is present and not too highly priced.

Admit that even if you didn't want the power you did buy in to ptw but most don't care and don't judge you much for it, as we understand the company strategy , much like taxes , early access are needed to keep things running.

Simply admit tht if every package was 500$ or say 1000$ many more would complain , so agree that ptw is an objective thing ( paying for options ) but subjective when we decide it's unfair to a vast majority is the time to shout it out!

And most here seem to agree that time is not now, but we would like to feel about when it is...

GL and HF.

Well said, (although I take exception to being called sarcastic; I'm curious what exactly I said that gave you this impression). I've pointed out maybe 7 or 8 times that this thread is not for the purpose of name and shame. It is impossible to point out the P2W potential of Hero Mechs without implying Hero Mech owners have quite possibly paid for an advantage. Much as you can't talk about the P2W potential of Clan tech without the inevitable conclusion that clan players quite likely own a cash exclusive advantage. This is why I've pointed out the difference between choosing to pay for an advantage, and receiving an advantage as two separate events that don't have perfect correlation. You may have bought something advantageous without being aware it was advantageous, but if it turns out that it is providing an advantage you need to just accept that and be willing to discuss how that impacts the game, whether PGI was aware of its failure to provide a level playing field, and whether something can be done to alleviate it without making it into a personal issue.

Becoming defensive is a natural reaction when one feels they are being accused of doing something they think is bad. I fully expected this thread to be fully populated with people who strongly disliked my assertion, which is why I've been ignoring the fairly constant flow of ad hominem and sticking with pointing out the logical fallacies.

[JigglyMoobs]

Guys, PGi has to make money. The way they've decided to do this is with new content.

Since a significant portion of the community actually likes to win, new premium mechs have to be at least as competitive as the non-premium mechs. Now, they could have made the premium mechs much better than the free ones, but instead they've made them only a little better. So some of them are the best variants of their chassis family. On the other hand, they are not so superior as to make the free mechs non-competitve.

For example, the Dragon Slayer is clearly the best Victor. However, I never bought one because I've been perfectly happy playing with my Victor-9S and 9K and I can fight those DS, and still have a decent chance of winning.

If they did not give the DS advantages, most people who have DS now would never have bought them.

With the clan mechs, the situation is that the whole backstory of the Battletech Universe is that the clans are supposed to have superior technology. They have to make them better in some ways to be faithful to the story.

Now, I think Pgi has actually achieved a good balance with the clan introduction. The clanners are good enough that lots of people went out and bought them, including me. However, they are balanced enough that I can still play with my Victor and not feel that it's completely outclassed. I think, given that this is a business, PGi has struck a good balance with this release.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 26 June 2014 - 04:49 PM.

[Nik Reaper]

The main ishue seems to be that people seem to thing PTW means pay to be OP because that is the only kind of PTW that rubs them the wrong way , and in this age of the industry we seem to need to accept that pay for options is an acceptable form of PTW and should not complain about it as long as the option is not too OP as judged by the greater community.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 26 June 2014 - 04:50 PM.

[Sundervine]

Nik Reaper, on 26 June 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

^ So can we agree that yes there is ptw elements here ( wich PGI seem to deem needed to survive ) , they, for now, aren't too large that we can't swallow them and that we should keep watch for things that can and will break the camils back and start another round of community warfare , and keep pressing PGI to try and slightly move from that direction?

This statement is the best statement in this thread. Sure some things might be P2W, like i have stated before, even paint can be P2W. However if you love the game, like the game etc, you must realize things like this limited release are necessary. They ned to survive to keep the servers going or this whole argument is a wash because the game closed and the servers were sold off. Then all your hard hours of work got you what? Nothing. You will have nothing to show for it.

We all know PGI will nerf the heck out of anything that gets to much attention. This will happen soon enough. Of course dont forget they will probably nerf the wrong thing thanks to all this lol. It is PGI ^^

Edited by Sundervine, 26 June 2014 - 04:51 PM.

[1453 R]

Atheus, on 26 June 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

snip for space

Here’s some questions for you then, Atheus. Since apparently this thread totez legit isn’t about getting a better grip on that club you’re breaking over Invasion package holders’ heads, and is purely and solely about coming up with a better way to make sure MWO isn't Pee Two Doubleyou. Pretend you’re Russ for a little bit here, and let’s talk.

What C-bill price would you put to the Dragon Slayer? How much is it worth, in a C-bill sense, and how would you compensate current owners of the Dragon Slayer for their willingness/moxie to pony up for the durned thing prior to it being available for whatever amount of C-bills you figure it’s worth?

How would you work out taking down the Berlin Pay Wall? And again, how would you go about compensating current Invasion Package holders for the removal of the early-access deal that was part of why many players bought the Invasion package in the first place? How would you compensate Invasion package holders for their previously-exclusive Prime(I) variants being released to the public?

How would you figure out the conversion rates on MC for C-bill prices for cockpit items, camouflages, or colors? I’ll waive the compensation for existing owners on this one, since it’s generally a much more minor concern.

I won’t ask you how you’d fix the MC-purchaseable consumables, as I actually have my own preferred method for dealing with consumables (one of these days I’ll do a proper write up for the Call-In Slot System, and then Piranha can ignore that, too).

Here’s the real big one, though – how would you, Faux-Russ, keep Piranha Games solvent after making the decision that no one in MWO ever has to buy MC ever again and thus no more additional revenue ever makes its way into the studio’s accounts? How would you keep the servers running when no one ever has to pay cash-money for anything ever again?

[Sandpit]

Atheus, on 26 June 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

I really have no basis for my original statement. I don't care about fixing something that I perceive as a problem, I just wanted to post a thread to make everyone else aware of how my opinion on the situation is factual and I don't feel the need to offer anything constructive other than "p2w". In other words this thread is really no different than any other "Argghh this sucks, PGI you suck, this is stupid!" with offering absolutely nothing in the way of constructive feedback on how PGI can improve this so that I enjoy the game more. I'm merely "looking out for everyone else" and being "altruistic" because apparently I'm the only one who even realizes this game is "p2w"

FTFY

Joseph Mallan, on 26 June 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

Left handed! Do I have to have perfect punctuation considering, my last English class was almost 20 years ago???


My Wife? Hel Yaeh

[citation needed]

Sundervine, on 26 June 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

even paint can be P2W.

ok I'm honestly curious as to how an aesthetic change in your mech helps you win or gives you any kind of advantage...

[Nik Reaper]

But in all of this there is this one thing that irks me , beside why every man, woman and child isn't a BT/MW fan, being why MWO was not a buy to play game with a cash shop for new mechs , paints and boosters/boosted mechs.

I would pay ~60$ for this game , much like I did pay 40$ for GW2 and they seem to be doing well with out selling anything you can't buy for ingame money and pay no monthly sub. ( by turning ingame money in to gems ) or at least like LOL and SC2 where they will sell you skins , paint and other non game mechanic changing things...

Does it have to do with the low population, the new player attraction ( as retention is not that much a problem when you pay to buy the game up front ).

I feal I don't understand why they felt it was needed , though I get that they wanted to reintroduce the "hero" mechs , but now they strayed from that path (lore) and are just making more "options" to pay for.
I don't get it , as we can see that it brings so much potencial danger of being or becoming OP .

[101011]

Sandpit, on 26 June 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

ok I'm honestly curious as to how an aesthetic change in your mech helps you win or gives you any kind of advantage...

Well, you could run some really blindingly awful color combos so that people avoid looking at you

[Atheus]

Nik Reaper, on 26 June 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

^ So can we agree that yes there is ptw elements here ( wich PGI seem to deem needed to survive ) , they, for now, aren't too large that we can't swallow them and that we should keep watch for things that can and will break the camils back and start another round of community warfare , and keep pressing PGI to try and slightly move from that direction?

Sundervine, on 26 June 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

This statement is the best statement in this thread. Sure some things might be P2W, like i have stated before, even paint can be P2W. However if you love the game, like the game etc, you must realize things like this limited release are necessary. They ned to survive to keep the servers going or this whole argument is a wash because the game closed and the servers were sold off. Then all your hard hours of work got you what? Nothing. You will have nothing to show for it.

We all know PGI will nerf the heck out of anything that gets to much attention. This will happen soon enough. Of course dont forget they will probably nerf the wrong thing thanks to all this lol. It is PGI ^^

Now you've gone from accepting that the game has P2W elements (which I support) to asking everyone to agree that it is necessary for PGI to survive. That second bit is a claim without evidence. PGI has clearly made many decisions about how to get their players to pay them for their time, but I think you're asking for a little too much to say I should accept their decisions have been good.

Sandpit, on 26 June 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

FTFY

Ah, congrats on the douchiest straw-man yet. You even made it so careless people might actually think I said that.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Sandpit, on 26 June 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

ok I'm honestly curious as to how an aesthetic change in your mech helps you win or gives you any kind of advantage...

Yes...I am as well. Extra armor adamantium paint.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 26 June 2014 - 05:10 PM.

[1453 R]

Nik Reaper, on 26 June 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

I would pay ~60$ for this game , much like I did pay 40$ for GW2 and they seem to be doing well with out selling anything you can't buy for ingame money and pay no monthly sub. ( by turning ingame money in to gems ) or at least like LOL and SC2 where they will sell you skins , paint and other non game mechanic changing things...

The gold-to-gems conversion only actually works in GW2 because you, the player, are paying your gold (a measure of in-game time spent, a'la C-bills), directly to another player in exchange for his gems (paid currency representing money sunk into the game, a'la MC). In order for you to be able to buy the paid currency with in-game currency, someone else had to buy the paid currency first, and then give it to you for your in-game currency. The end recipient of the paid currency changes, but the fact remains that someone, somewhere, paid ArenaNet for those gems that got used, and thus they made their buck off of it.

Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful system and I approve of it greatly, but it only works with a full blown player-to-player economy. Guess what we totes don't have in MWO?

[Nik Reaper]

1453 R, on 26 June 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

snip

I don't know about him , but how about no more "option" mechs for sale , instead a MC price to turn a mech of you'r choosing in to a boosted mech ( 30%Cbill +30% XP) , price depending on the chasy class.
How about selling modules for MC , I might want to pay 3$ to not have to grind ( don't like the conversion rate for the Cbill bundles )
How about those mech parts that they talked about , the spiky atlas pauldron or the war horns helmet head peace, those don't change gameplay much ( exept if some crazy hit box anomaly we could expect from PGI ). The best F2P game is one that does not sell power or "options" ( wich translates to power in specific hands ) but cosmetics and conveniance.

I hope this is just a phase they are at and will after completing the collection ( a hero for every chassy ) will stop this plan and move to a better one.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 26 June 2014 - 05:17 PM.

[1453 R]

Sandpit, on 26 June 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

ok I'm honestly curious as to how an aesthetic change in your mech helps you win or gives you any kind of advantage...

Camouflage - paint your 'Mech in a given color/scheme, and on certain maps it'll be harder to make out than the acid-green tiger-striped abominations next to you. A very minor advantage, but still P-ing 2 W. According to Atheus, at least. Guess we better normalize all 'Mechs to Fresh Newbie Green, or release every single color in the shop fore free to all players.

Edited by 1453 R, 26 June 2014 - 05:17 PM.

[Turboferret]

1453 R, on 26 June 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

Camouflage - paint your 'Mech in a given color/scheme, and on certain maps it'll be harder to make out than the acid-green tiger-striped abominations next to you. A very minor advantage, but still P-ing 2 W.

Actually, you missed the big "P2W". Having a better computer is paying to win, especially with a game on cryengine.

And a friendly reminder to Atheus, you still haven't uninstalled like you promised.

[101011]

1453 R, on 26 June 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

Camouflage - paint your 'Mech in a given color/scheme, and on certain maps it'll be harder to make out than the acid-green tiger-striped abominations next to you. A very minor advantage, but still P-ing 2 W. According to Atheus, at least. Guess we better normalize all 'Mechs to Fresh Newbie Green, or release every single color in the shop fore free to all players.

But the giant red triangle nullifies that effect.