235 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

Because Russ has never shot his mouth off in error before, eh? He's definitely improved since his Official Apology, but frankly?

I'll believe it when I see it.

[damonwolf]

Shredhead, on 10 July 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 3 Std.
@AgroAntirrhopus @Bhael_Fire July 15 patch improves group queue,increases the chance you will be in matches with same sized groups and Elo

Thanks for posting that. I hope it works/helps.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

1453 R, on 10 July 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Because Russ has never shot his mouth off in error before, eh? He's definitely improved since his Official Apology, but frankly?

I'll believe it when I see it.

They are observing the MM behaviour very closely now - Elo diffence and group size statistics. Right now if the MM doesn't find a 12-man or 10-man a match in 4 minutes, it releases the restrictions and finds them a match. However during the prime time there are several 12-mans online and the MM matches them against each other. The problem could be the odd hours and huge Elo difference.

I personally believe they can make this work - with the exception of odd hours when there simply isn't enough players to match in group size or Elo level.

[Asmudius Heng]

Getting more players for groups still needs to happen though. In the group queue everyone probably has a unit.

To recruit I am going t have to go solo and approach anyone who looks vaguely competent lol

[Pjwned]

I do think there is a place for smaller groups in the solo queue because it can be a little lame going up against a group that's up to 6x as big on the other team and I don't see how it hurts to have some people that are coordinated among the rest of the PUG masses, but honestly people can just deal with it and get a little better if it's a problem fighting bigger groups, not to mention that last time I did some group play the wait times got really annoying so if that's actually improved I really much prefer that.

[Vassago Rain]

damonwolf, on 10 July 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

Basically, IMO, they are discouraging grouping up for anyone not in a 6, 8, or 12 man team. If you do, you're probably going to get rolled...which is not fun or even challenging. Good job PGI. You take a problem and your solution ends up being even more painful for many.
And NO, I'm not going to team up with acquaintances I really don't care to run with just to keep me from having my a55 handed to me. I want to play with 2-4 FRIENDS I normally play with and get along in vent, and have fun, not get frustrated because an 8-12 man team is rolling.

Sounds like someone has a serious case of the git guds.

We've been rolling and getting rolled since they introduced the 10 manz limit. Win or lose, we keep on trucking. Groups no longer break, I don't have to spend hours setting it up, there's no need to keep a static 12 people on. Casually dropping in awful mechs has never been easier.

MWO hasn't been this fun since 2012.

Which is why I fear they'll lock the fun away if people cry a bit extra on their twitters.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 10 July 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

Which is why I fear they'll lock the fun away if people cry a bit extra on their twitters.

So like you and R&R all those months/years ago? I still haven't forgave you for that.

[Peter2k]

Wow
A feature that has been asked for; well also demanded for; since closed beta doesn't tickle everyone's fancy
Who would've thought?

The group que is the best thing ever

And why does everyone think that a 12 man, even on the still rare occasion that you run into one, is so much better

The side with cobbled together, but actually good players, stands a better chance at victory anyday still

It's just like in the solo que
It's not comms, as much as it is some skill, or experience for that matter, and willingness to work together
If you have a lot of high ELO players on one side, and low to midrange on the other then comms seriously doesn't matter anymore

Seen it many, many times now, also in group que
Kicked 12 mans butt, and got it handed to us running a 12 oureselfs

Even in a group, clan, merc corp you have players of different skill
Players that want to grind, or try crazy builds

12 are far from unbeatable, I have seen some realy good flanking maneuvers from teams that are obviously no 12 man


Also thank god the premade bogey man is gone now
Let's see what the next excuse is gonna be

Also
#sarcasm
LRM's n clans are OP
Sync dropping n stuff

It's definatly not my all LRM stalker with xl engine, without tag and BAP, holding back at just 980 m away from any red triangle that's at fault here
It's sync drops
# sarcasm off

I'm glad I can walk to a front line these days without loosing all my back armor to someone's test firing

I have seen times when a 2 man complemented out 10 man quite well
Altogether rather good matches

Maybe everyone who has problems finding friendly guys to group up with should maybe try a different TS

I have yet to run into someone being unfriendly or unsportsmanlike like
Maybe it's just a space Viking thing

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 July 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

So like you and R&R all those months/years ago? I still haven't forgave you for that.

RnR was so bad, the game literally would have died if they'd kept it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 10 July 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

RnR was so bad, the game literally would have died if they'd kept it.

Needed fixing not deleting... Like Collision damage.

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 July 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

Needed fixing not deleting... Like Collision damage.

No, it needed to be cut out with surgical precision.

It was P2W.
It made the game extremely unfun.
It had bad effects on the community.
Playing well punished you (twist away damage on your atlas, pay fatter repair bills to fix armor. Better to get cored quickly).
It locked out content for freeplayer scum, while the golden master race could run whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted, however they wanted.
Impossible for new players to catch up.
Game earned such a bad rep, gaming sites were referring to it as a korean grind simulator.
It didn't really do anything.
One billion possible exploits, all of which were necessary to abuse if you wanted to make bank. Newer players wouldn't know about these, so were even more disadvantaged.
Etc.

There was no way they could have fixed that mess, and even if they did, all it would have been is a fun tax, anyway. ggclose, Paul.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 10 July 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

No, it needed to be cut out with surgical precision.

It was P2W.
It made the game extremely unfun.
It had bad effects on the community.
Playing well punished you (twist away damage on your atlas, pay fatter repair bills to fix armor. Better to get cored quickly).
It locked out content for freeplayer scum, while the golden master race could run whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted, however they wanted.
Impossible for new players to catch up.
Game earned such a bad rep, gaming sites were referring to it as a korean grind simulator.
It didn't really do anything.
One billion possible exploits, all of which were necessary to abuse if you wanted to make bank. Newer players wouldn't know about these, so were even more disadvantaged.
Etc.

There was no way they could have fixed that mess, and even if they did, all it would have been is a fun tax, anyway. ggclose, Paul.

Your opinions there young man. I enjoyed the fact that my Play had an Impact on what I actually took home after the match. If you were such a hot shot and made money hand over fist you wouldn't have needed to worry about R&R. As a average player I had no problem making a profit after every match. And I did full repairs all the time, even during the depression.

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 July 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

Your opinions there young man. I enjoyed the fact that my Play had an Impact on what I actually took home after the match. If you were such a hot shot and made money hand over fist you wouldn't have needed to worry about R&R. As a average player I had no problem making a profit after every match. And I did full repairs all the time, even during the depression.

That's great.

Still doesn't change that it was all the things I listed, and lots I didn't list.

Killed for a reason, hopefully never coming back. By the way, you can stop pretending you did full repairs while making money. I know for a fact that wasn't possible.

I'm the guy who played EVERY BUILD SUBMITTED for a month, and only the cheapest of the cheapest of pure tech 1 builds could afford full repairs and ammo refills if they wanted to make money. No, going positive 500 c-bills doesn't count as 'making money.'

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 10 July 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

That's great.

Still doesn't change that it was all the things I listed, and lots I didn't list.

Killed for a reason, hopefully never coming back. By the way, you can stop pretending you did full repairs while making money. I know for a fact that wasn't possible.

I'm the guy who played EVERY BUILD SUBMITTED for a month, and only the cheapest of the cheapest of pure tech 1 builds could afford full repairs and ammo refills if they wanted to make money. No, going positive 500 c-bills doesn't count as 'making money.'

I played an Atlas with 11 tons of LRM Ammo... I always made more than 500C-Bills... Cept maybe during the depression. You know for a fact YOU didn't but unless you hacked my account you Don't know. Which is obvious.

Making war is expensive.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 July 2014 - 04:47 PM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

The beauty of the solo queue is that Elo and that match maker will finally have a chance to function as intended, and players will move through the ranks on their own merits. The best part is the solo queue is the largely reduced meta footprint. Many meta builds and strategies require an extensive support structure to function effectively, something rarely seen in a random Pug match.

[Asmudius Heng]

The concept was ok in some ways but linking it to cBills is not good.

cBill grinding is the engine that keeps the game running. When you tie punishment to this system it really hurts peoples experience and the game as a whole.

I agree that in CW there NEEDs to be some sort of logistical system that brings meaning to a win or a loss beyond cBills. But it should not be linked to the very personal cBill accumulation.

There needs to be other ways of simulating downtime, repairs, economy etc that is an abstraction that affects you personally if you CHOOSE to drop in a CW match, but also effects your faction as well.

Old R&R was punitive and not fun in a F2P environment IMO

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 July 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

I played an Atlas with 11 tons of LRM Ammo... I always made more than 500C-Bills... Cept maybe during the depression. You know for a fact YOU didn't but unless you hacked my account you Don't know. Which is obvious.

Brah, I had a mega thread full of screenshots with 500k ammo refill costs, 200k armor repair bills, and other nonsense. That's kinda why RnR died.

Because it was such an awful system, and I kept submitting proof of just how bad it really was. They had no choice but to cut it out.

We wouldn't be having this discussion if they'd kept it, as the game would have simply died due to how unplayable it was under RnR.

[Kjudoon]

R&R must return for Community Warfare. It needs to be priced right, but it must happen. Payouts must be profitable even if standard battle damage is taken and the ability to fully restock your ammo must be there otherwise it is a 'why bother' proposition Without a market system without consequence you don't have a single reason to create Community Warfare for the objectives are meaningless.

PGI will need to hire an economist to design an economy that would work properly because I have doubts they have the necessary skill to do this properly (no offense intended, it's just let''s face it, you're talented elsewhere) and if you botch it, the game will be mangled as Vassago Rain is pointing out about the previous version of R&R.

Dynamic enconomies solves the meta with dynamic price fluxuations based on demand and availability. It fixes stupid play by penalizing those who just charge in going 'mech smash'. It rewards smart tactics, capping and a plethora of other good choices and gives a bonus to using no-ammo energy weapons as it should.

R&R must return for CW to be worth a plug nickle.

[MadcatX]

Lets put R&R, a mechanic which leads to lower earnings to varying degrees depending on the player, in a game while in beta... where the whole purpose of beta is allowing people to TEST a broad range of mechs and weapons to allow game devs to collect data, discover bugs, etc.

Stellar idea that was....

[Kjudoon]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 10 July 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

The beauty of the solo queue is that Elo and that match maker will finally have a chance to function as intended, and players will move through the ranks on their own merits. The best part is the solo queue is the largely reduced meta footprint. Many meta builds and strategies require an extensive support structure to function effectively, something rarely seen in a random Pug match.

Yes, a new meta will arise in the Solo PUG queue. It will require much more self sufficient "screw alla youse I'm playing for myself" mechs that may as well be in for "king of the hill" style free for alls where it's everyone for himself last man standing.