235 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 10 July 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

Brah, I had a mega thread full of screenshots with 500k ammo refill costs, 200k armor repair bills, and other nonsense. That's kinda why RnR died.

Because it was such an awful system, and I kept submitting proof of just how bad it really was. They had no choice but to cut it out.

We wouldn't be having this discussion if they'd kept it, as the game would have simply died due to how unplayable it was under RnR.

So you'd have left? Another perk to the R&R system!

500K That's
16 tons of LRM Ammo
83 tons of AC 10 Ammo
50 tons of AC20 Ammo
or 18 tons of SRM ammo

I call BS Sir

Specially at the end when we were only paying 25% of cost to R&R!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 July 2014 - 05:00 PM.

[Roland]

Vass makes a good point about one of the most critical flaws of the R&R system, which is that you ended up paying higher repair costs if you were a better pilot and knew how to spread damage, as opposed to dying through a single panel.

For R&R to work, having your mech destroyed would have had to have costs much higher than any amount of damage. It would have had to have been priced as a total loss, as if your entire mech was destroyed (because it was).

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, on 10 July 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

Vass makes a good point about one of the most critical flaws of the R&R system, which is that you ended up paying higher repair costs if you were a better pilot and knew how to spread damage, as opposed to dying through a single panel.

For R&R to work, having your mech destroyed would have had to have costs much higher than any amount of damage. It would have had to have been priced as a total loss, as if your entire mech was destroyed (because it was).

No you paid more money if you brought expensive gear. I died to more ammo explosions than I can remember, And I always made money. If you stayed alive, spread the damage over more armor you got charged less to R&R than My Atlas blowing up! Cause I didn't use CASE.

[Roland]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 July 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

No you paid more money if you brought expensive gear. I died to more ammo explosions than I can remember, And I always made money. If you stayed alive, spread the damage over more armor you got charged less to R&R than My Atlas blowing up! Cause I didn't use CASE.

No, you paid costs based on what was actually damaged, not based on what you brought.

If you spread damage around and used your armor before you died, you paid higher repair costs than someone who just stared straight ahead and died through their CT without taking damage anywhere else.

Any dearth should have had repair cost equal to a total loss of everything on the mech, but that isn't how it worked.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, on 10 July 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

No, you paid costs based on what was actually damaged, not based on what you brought.

If you spread damage around and used your armor before you died, you paid higher repair costs than someone who just stared straight ahead and died through their CT without taking damage anywhere else.

Any dearth should have had repair cost equal to a total loss of everything on the mech, but that isn't how it worked.

And shouldn't have if the Mech didn't blow up. Why pay to Repair working components? That's just silly talk. You paid for every point of armor you lost which completely makes sense when torso twisting. It isn't punishing its the cost of making war.

Oh and 19 tons of FFA costs 95,000C-Cbills, so you'd have had to lose every shingle of armor on your Atlas to pay 100K Vass, so again I call BS on your Proof!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 July 2014 - 05:32 PM.

[Clit Beastwood]

AgroAntirrhopus, on 10 July 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Well crap. Husband and I really enjoyed playing together in the solo queue... not sure we'll enjoy it as much getting thrown in with big groups.

Play with other couples! I know 2-3 other couples that play, from early 20's to late 60's

[Roland]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 July 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

And shouldn't have if the Mech didn't blow up. Why pay to Repair working components? That's just silly talk. You paid for every point of armor you lost which completely makes sense when torso twisting. It isn't punishing its the cost of making war.

The reason you should pay for repairing working components is because you died and lost the mech.
While those components are working, they are now in the hands of the guy who killed you in the form of salvage. When your mech gets destroyed, it doesn't make any sense for you to be able to take what's left of it home.

[Asmudius Heng]

"It isn't punishing its the cost of making war"

And it lead t people being cowards worried about scratching the paint and made tanking mechs feel even LESS rewarded than the role does usually even when it is a vital asset to have on your team.

R&R did not lead to good dynamics of play

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I really like the solo queue, some challenging non-meta fights, a few stomps, a few army-of-one dominations. But I think once Elo settles down the matches will be more challenging for all Elo categories.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, on 10 July 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

The reason you should pay for repairing working components is because you died and lost the mech.
While those components are working, they are now in the hands of the guy who killed you in the form of salvage. When your mech gets destroyed, it doesn't make any sense for you to be able to take what's left of it home.

Obviously I didn't die cause I get to go back Home after the match. Other than that I see your logic now and understand your perspective. It makes sense. I'd accept it if that were the case.

[Deathlike]

I've long suggested to have some sort of opt-in R&R system where PGI would have to spend actual time and effort to tweak numbers until they got it right.

That would be the only way of doing it, until they finally get the numbers right so it can be applied across the board at some point.

Still, having an R&R system that punished newbies does not solve the new player experience one bit.

[Joseph Mallan]

Deathlike, on 10 July 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

I've long suggested to have some sort of opt-in R&R system where PGI would have to spend actual time and effort to tweak numbers until they got it right.

That would be the only way of doing it, until they finally get the numbers right so it can be applied across the board at some point.

Still, having an R&R system that punished newbies does not solve the new player experience one bit.

I'd happily participate in creating a true R&R system for the game.

Asmudius Heng, on 10 July 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

"It isn't punishing its the cost of making war"

And it lead t people being cowards worried about scratching the paint and made tanking mechs feel even LESS rewarded than the role does usually even when it is a vital asset to have on your team.

R&R did not lead to good dynamics of play

Only the cowards Asmud, only the Cowards. It never cause me to shrink for the fight when it got exciting. That is part of immersion The cowards flee the brave pressed on.

[ShinVector]

wanderer, on 10 July 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

Hey, if it's a stealth fix, good. You'd think they'd, y'know, ANNOUNCE that considering it's a major change to the matchmaker.

DOH !!! No wonder the MM felt weird recently !! I see now ! Now I need to see what I can do in this situation.

[Ghogiel]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 July 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

So you'd have left? Another perk to the R&R system!

500K That's
16 tons of LRM Ammo
83 tons of AC 10 Ammo
50 tons of AC20 Ammo
or 18 tons of SRM ammo

I call BS Sir

Specially at the end when we were only paying 25% of cost to R&R!

I remember paying 83k to repair a STK and it wasnt even destroyed.

[Lynx7725]

Kjudoon, on 10 July 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

the key point to paraphrase: "You can't be a support mech when there's no one to support". This right here nails it for anyone who is a direct fire or even worse for an indirect fire support mech. LRMs are all but off the table if you don't get the locks yourself, so run a LRMisher build if you can. Fast, agile, jumpy with tag, BAP and don't depend on anyone, because they won't help you do your job for them 7 times out of 10. Brawlers mad about poptarts? Too bad locks aren't being made so suppressive LRM fire can be used and they can close. Brawler all up in your grits? Wouldn't it have been nice to have a sniper or LRM mech help strip off that armor, blow off a leg or something?

The Solo Queue, for all it's good points is Solo tactics, solo thinking too. So you best be a self sufficient mech to do well. At least that's what I keep seeing as I test the thread now and again.

To some extent that's my concern with the current Solo PUG environment. It's similar in nature to the previous complaint about the competitive meta (i.e. "Poptarts, Poptarts everywhere"). Basically, diversity in builds for the Solo PUG environment would likely take a hit.

But the community is not ready to discuss this anyway, so I won't bother.

Ah well. I suppose I can take advantage of the situation and dust off my AC40 Jager. Or rebuild that SplatCat. I supposed my Miffed Kitty would do well enough in the meta..

[wanderer]

NextGame, on 10 July 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Ha! Sounds like it's time to rename the solo queue to the Rambo queue

More like:

[Joseph Mallan]

Ghogiel, on 10 July 2014 - 06:49 PM, said:

I remember paying 83k to repair a STK and it wasnt even destroyed.

And you made 80K After the win. Full armor for a Stalker is 40,000C-Bills where you wearing FFA in that Match? Could be we were complaining about R&R for the WRONG reason! If you lost 75% of your Armor it should have cost 30K Or JUSt 10K if this was when we had to cover 25% cost! Depending on how much ammo you had you look to have been overcharged for that as well. One ton of LRM Ammo is 30K So maybe you could have gone through that much ammo.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 July 2014 - 07:03 PM.

[Ghogiel]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 July 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

And you made 80K After the win. Full armor for a Stalker is 40,000C-Bills where you wearing FFA in that Match? Could be we were complaining about R&R for the WRONG reason! If you lost 75% of your Armor it should have cost 30K Or JUSt 10K if this was when we had to cover 25% cost! Depending on how much ammo you had you look to have been overcharged for that as well. One ton of LRM Ammo is 30K So maybe you could have gone through that much ammo.

Oh course its STD armor on the STK.

Without 75% wellfare armor it would be like 150k just on STD armor. FF is double that iirc.

Edit: That's the brawler MBL + SRM STK, so there should be only SRM ammo on that.

and not just making 80k on a win... but a carry the **** out of team type win where I killed half the enemy team.

Edited by Ghogiel, 10 July 2014 - 07:29 PM.

[Lynx7725]

Heh. A friend I was chatting with had a most interesting take on the situation with the solo queue:

"For the more exp players, Solo games are now just interactive Testing Grounds?"

Can't fault the logic...

[Zordicron]

Vassago Rain, on 10 July 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

The 'excellent solos' aren't really solo players, but highly experienced group players, who are simply there to swiftly grind out XP on the mech of the month.

This right here, is the main reason I do not join a group, and I am also very glad I do not have to listen to this BS anymore on my pug matches.

EGO much?

Tonight I played 3 matches in my not even basics Novas. I got 11 kills and over 20 assists. I have grouped, like 4 times, with my brother- last year in september with trial spiders trolling people with flamer spiders. Everything else is solo pugs, no synch drop, no nothing.

Group players are not automatically "better" and in many cases, as proven by all the times I watched them drag my pug teams down the toilet into a loss, worse then pugs. Tactics are indeed different, and there is no catch all for the talent level of a group player JUST AS THERE ISNT FOR A PUG PLAYER.

So get off your high horse and deflate some of the hot air, and act like a civilized person to your fellow players instead of reffering to anyone not in your TS channel as some kind of 3rd world drug addict. (note, this is not directed specifically at the quoted post, but it is directed at anyone who feels/agrees with quoted post)