180 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

3rdworld, on 24 July 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

With voting 24 players don't decide a map. The majority vote decides the map. Lets assume for a second you like Terra Therma, so you do not blacklist it. How many times would a majority vote pick Terra Therma? Rarely, if ever. In blacklisting you would get to play Terra Therma with any of the other players that don't mind it. So really this would be a favorable solution to you vs voting.

How exactly would a player choosing not to drop on X map, suddenly prevent you from playing on a map? Unless the general population believes a map to be bad, and chooses not to use it.

Let us not try to find a solution to make both parties happy. SandPit has fun this way, and so it must be, so it shall be, seyla

where's your proof?
I have proof
It's in every single poll posted specifically about terra therma asking for it to be removed, how many players wouldn't play it, etc.
Want to know what the results were for every
single
one
of those polls?
It wasn't what you're saying it would be. Sooooo, no sir, it wouldn't be "rarely" jsut because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean the majority agrees with you.
You do have a way for both parties to "be happy" use private matches for what they were intended for which is exactly what your'e asking for. Limited map selection, no rules regarding force composition, etc. You have the ability to do so now, you're just choosing not to use it.

Instead, you're trying to say that letting you selectively choose only the best maps for your builds be the norm for everyone so that you can have "fun" competing against others knowing that you have an advantage because you never have to worry about dropping on a hot map in a hot build. You are playing with thousands of other players. You're subjective opinion of "fun" isn't the only one to consider. I've already pointed out how your claims of "nobody would play therma" are wrong. Feel free to search terra therma and the polls that were put up making the exact same claims you are and see how many of those polls reflect what you're saying.

You're making claims and assertions that have already been made and have already been proven false since therma was released.

[Bront]

cdlord, on 24 July 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

I'd like to see an Alpine Peaks Summer or Thaw map. Get that lake wet! Put in some trees and greenery! What's underneath the snow? The pass that was passable with snow is now a rock face hidden beneath? That changes everything!

That's the kind of alternate map I'm all for.

Simply making it night isn't a big deal, but a combination of temperature and terrain changes would be cool, and there's no reason they couldn't do something like that on most maps.

A frozen Crimson Straight might be interesting, but I don't see where they'd have any big map differences that wouldn't break the map (the saddle got snowed it or is narrower?)

A frozen Tourmaline like map could be done pretty easily (but would need to be a different map, since I don't think Tourmaline would freeze normaly). You could tweak the terraign a bit though, adding a few paths in some areas, removing them in others, maybe removing the big ring.

Caustic Vally with the Crater filled with water, a few added rivers, and greenery vs the power plants could be fun.

Terra Therma ... not sure what to do with it. Add light to it for a day view and make it hotter? Turn the lava into water? Have it cooled over so it's no longer molten? (Maybe best option, would make the caldera interesting to fight in when you can actually have a fight on the lower part)

Already mentioned the flooded Canyon network.

Heck, HPG could be repurposed a bit for other environments, as there are bound to be HPGs on moons and planets with different environments. Would be a big change to the outer areas (Maybe even making more of the map available, say being able to circle around the inside without ever going in).

Still, don't want to milk that too much. As long as we get a combo of new as well as re-purposed maps, I'll be happy.

[Nightmare1]

jaxjace, on 23 July 2014 - 08:24 PM, said:

Honestly why the hell not? Who actually LIKES therma?

But I like Terra Therma...

[Sandpit]

Nightmare1, on 24 July 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

But I like Terra Therma...

not according to some people in this thread... you can't
I happen to like therma as well. it's always funny watching people who refuse to do things like
chain fire
heat management
make a more diverse build
firing discipline
cuss and rant because it's somehow the map's fault

Keep in mind I run a 5LL stalker most times and still stand by my statements

[Lykaon]

kz5a, on 23 July 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

Personally I can't stand playing Alpine Peaks. I've discussed this with other players and found that I'm not the only player that feels that way. Other folks have a dislike for other maps.

I would like to see an ability developed to allow a player to blacklist one or two maps that the player does not care to play. Or alternatively a whitelist approach to matchmaking.

This would improve player enjoyment and give devs some solid feedback on player preferences for the maps.

Ragnor

Let's see here.

Black list Caustic Valley because it's ring around the doughnut 99.99% of the time,and to easy to LURM

Blacklist Tera Therma because I'm sick of everyone running into the Pug zapper in the middle

Blacklist Alpine Peaks because I'm sick to death of fighting on or over the same hill in H9

Blacklist Forest Colony because I'm sick to death of 90% of the matches played end up with mechs clustered on either side of the cave the other 9.9% it's a clump of mechs running behind the shipwreck.

Blacklist River City because it's so damn tiny what's the point! may as well remove the rest of the map that isn't used and just keep the citidel and the two squares it sits on because that is where the fight is almost every time.

What is left...Oh...

Black list Canyon it's to small
Blacklist Frozen city it's to predictable
Blacklist HPG it's another doughnut run with the added "intrest" of being able to play under the "hole"

What's my point?

The point is there is something wrong with nearly every map we have and a reason to not want to use them.

Nearly every map is intentionaly designed to channel players into the same 2 -4 square region.Go look up the heat maps and see it for your self.

[Wolfways]

3rdworld, on 24 July 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

inb4 MWO isn't a shooter!!!!1!!!11!!1!

If only that were true...

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

I like Terra Therma, the overall asthetic of the map is lame yes, but frankly, It's got some good things to offer IF players refuse to rush to the center. But the center draws players like bugs to a bug zapper.

I like Alpine... yes it's big... a bit too big. It could do with a rework so that Meta Mountain isn't the go-to spot it currently is.

I like River City EXCEPT for Assault. Assault with the way the bases were moved... was just a bad idea. When the match starts, and you can instantly start fighting across the water, you have a map spawning failure. RCN only annoys me because you have to play the entire map in a secondary vision mode... not necessarily bad... but really we need night versions of more maps to balance this out.

I like Forrest Colony Except for it's size. Let's be real, Forrest Colony was created with the intention of 8v8 matches, it was NOT devloped with 12v12 in mind, and it horribly throws the balance of the map off. It needs a size rework. and an optimization pass to fix some of the filtering issues, the cave rendering issues, and various other little niggling problems with the map.

I like Frozen City Night, but not standard. Standard tanks my FPS hard due to the snowstorm [I have no idea why it's causing so many problems, I average 40+fps on other maps.] but the map is a good size and plays well in general.

Tourmaline needs a geometry pass... the crystals eat shots like no one's business, and I can't count the number of times I've gotten stuck on things. Outside of this the flow of the map is good.

Canyon needs a few more areas that are easier to walk up hills, but otherwise is an interesting map.

HPG needs a HUGE geometry pass on the pillars at the top of the HPG tower, but also flows fairly well.

All in all, the maps are decent in general. ALL of them have flaws, and there ARE maps I'd rather avoid myself. BUT, if you were allowed to blacklist maps, that means you could blacklist all long range maps, thus allowing you to play only brawler mechs.

This is not the intention of MWO. You don't have a map choice because it's an attempt to force players to diversify their loadouts. Are you going to be on a hot map, or a cold map. Long Range or short? Guess what, you don't know, so you'd better generalize so you have everything covered, or risk sucking due to getting a bad map.

Edit: Also you are a merc/House military man.

YOU do not get to choose where you fight... that's for your house/employer to tell you what you're fighting over.

You don't get the choice of hot or cold, close or long... your House Lord/Clan/employer has told you to take this planet, and that the fight will be over X location. You go and fight on X location because that's what you're told to do.

That's part of the game bro. Sorry to say.

Edited by Flash Frame, 24 July 2014 - 06:09 PM.

[jaxjace]

Sandpit, on 23 July 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

you know what happened the last tiem someone said this?
They started a poll
Know what the response showed?
About 5% (less than 30) voted that "it should be removed because they didn't like it"
can you guess what the other 95% or so voted?
so no, your opinion on the maps does not represent the majority

I never said it should be removed lol, the op said black and white list, thats not removal dummy, thats an option not to play a map you dont like.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Screw you wage slaves and fascists, I'm mercenary, you want me to fight on Mt. Doom, you better pony up, otherwise I'm headed to crimson beach on pleasure planet, because it pays the same with a lot more perks.

[Sephlock]

Flash Frame, on 24 July 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

This is not the intention of MWO. You don't have a map choice because it's an attempt to force players to diversify their loadouts. Are you going to be on a hot map, or a cold map. Long Range or short? Guess what, you don't know, so you'd better generalize so you have everything covered, or risk sucking due to getting a bad map.

Yeah, and you know how that works out?

Quote

Edit: Also you are a merc/House military man.

YOU do not get to choose where you fight... that's for your house/employer to tell you what you're fighting over.

You don't get the choice of hot or cold, close or long... your House Lord/Clan/employer has told you to take this planet, and that the fight will be over X location. You go and fight on X location because that's what you're told to do.

That's part of the game bro. Sorry to say.

I hereby call upon Sandpit to explain why it is a dumb idea to literally ship your troops to any battlefield under any conditions without telling them anything about where they are going.

Jeeze, even under GWB they at least told you not to bother to pack your asbestos feety pajamas and hinted that you might want some sunscreen.

[Sandpit]

jaxjace, on 24 July 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

I never said it should be removed lol, the op said black and white list, thats not removal dummy, thats an option not to play a map you dont like.

...
I'm the dummy but removing a map from your rotation isn't removing it? ok hoss
keep on keeping on, all you do with comments like that and childish name calling is show to the rest of the community that you're not really to be taken seriously.

[Sandpit]

Sephlock, on 24 July 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

Yeah, and you know how that works out?




I hereby call upon Sandpit to explain why it is a dumb idea to literally ship your troops to any battlefield under any conditions without telling them anything about where they are going.

Jeeze, even under GWB they at least told you not to bother to pack your asbestos feety pajamas and hinted that you might want some sunscreen.

ok challenge accepted
scenario 1
you're derping along to your rendevous point and get ambushed by enemy forces, you're nowhere near your planned point of contact

scenario 2
you're coming into a hostile LZ and get blown off course to a less than desirable LZ.

scenario 3
your military intel was bad and you got totally bad information

scenario 4
your C.O. deems your missions to be completely covert as a black op and you don't get your intel until you land in the LZ.

all 4 of those scenarios are real world military scenarios that play out in combat all the time. Historically and currently
so is 4 enough? I can keep going if you want me to.

[Sephlock]

Sandpit, on 24 July 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

ok challenge accepted
scenario 1
you're derping along to your rendevous point and get ambushed by enemy forces, you're nowhere near your planned point of contact

scenario 2
you're coming into a hostile LZ and get blown off course to a less than desirable LZ.

scenario 3
your military intel was bad and you got totally bad information

scenario 4
your C.O. deems your missions to be completely covert as a black op and you don't get your intel until you land in the LZ.

all 4 of those scenarios are real world military scenarios that play out in combat all the time. Historically and currently
so is 4 enough? I can keep going if you want me to.

1: Would you all be in your tanks, etc, with no casualties or fire taken despite stumbling onto whatever the modern military equivalent of 12 Battlemechs is?

2: With a completely different environment? Like, you could be getting sent to Saudi Arabia and end in up Finland?

3: I'm pretty sure weather satelites exist, and while the weather itself may be different than what you expected, typically you wouldn't be sent in with snow shoes and ice picks and land in Mordor.

4: And they don't bother adjusting your equipment or anything at all even if you are wearing triple layers and are going to the desert in the summer?

[Sephlock]

Also, as it is the "complete and utter ignorance of your drop zone" scenario is played out in EVERY SINGLE BATTLE.

Is it THAT common?

[Sandpit]

Sephlock, on 24 July 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

Also, as it is the "complete and utter ignorance of your drop zone" scenario is played out in EVERY SINGLE BATTLE.

Is it THAT common?

which a map vote system would change, which is not blacklisting a map. two separate things
map vote = good
blacklist = bad

[Sephlock]

Sandpit, on 24 July 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

which a map vote system would change, which is not blacklisting a map. two separate things
map vote = good
blacklist = bad

Fair enough, although I suspect that if allowed to vote, the end result would be NO MORE MECH HIKING SIMULATOR!

(I'd also like PGI to start collecting data on how many people who vote against Tourmaline are boating LRMs ).

[Wolfways]

Sephlock, on 24 July 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

Also, as it is the "complete and utter ignorance of your drop zone" scenario is played out in EVERY SINGLE BATTLE.

Is it THAT common?

Does it really matter to a mechwarrior? He has a mech, not a list to choose from.

[Sephlock]

Wolfways, on 24 July 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

Does it really matter to a mechwarrior? He has a mech, not a list to choose from.

Yeah, NOW he doesn't.

[Sandpit]

Sephlock, on 24 July 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

Fair enough, although I suspect that if allowed to vote, the end result would be NO MORE MECH HIKING SIMULATOR!

(I'd also like PGI to start collecting data on how many people who vote against Tourmaline are boating LRMs ).

i doubt it, I'd vote for mordor just because I know so many like to run those hot builds and don't know how to manage their heat and use a little fire discipline and I have a feeling plenty more would do the same thing

[Sephlock]

Sandpit, on 24 July 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

i doubt it, I'd vote for mordor just because I know so many like to run those hot builds and don't know how to manage their heat and use a little fire discipline and I have a feeling plenty more would do the same thing

I really had Alpine in mind more than anything. I don't dislike Mordor nowdays (either it grew on me or people just learned to play the map as something other than "Where's Waldo meets Duke Nukem", and Tourmaline... definitely just grew on me.