143 replies to this topic

[nehebkau]

Lord Perversor, on 09 August 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

I call bullshit a 8 x Cerml Direwolf be able to do this alone without Heat issues... 2 Alphas possibles 3 onwards in quick succesion i can tell you it isn't even if all the rest of it's tonnage it's just pure DHS even alternating 4 then 4 to avoid Ghost heat.

All I saw was a yellow stream coming from him, perhaps he was firing other weapons, all I could see was a bright blaze of yellow. Regardless it was just a DWF firing.

Heeden, on 09 August 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

It's just not adding up though, assuming the Atlas had over 50 front armour it should take more than 2 volleys from 8 x CERMLas and that's with literally every moment being focused on the Atlas's centre torso; the time it takes for that to happen the four mechs present should have ripped the DW apart, or at least taken an ST out.

Didn`t make sense to me either. The end credits said the atlas did 93 damage.

And people wonder why me, in my light, usually try to stay as far away from the brawl as possible.

Edited by nehebkau, 09 August 2014 - 06:44 PM.

[Asmudius Heng]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

As i said, it was a `round the corner and there he is` encounter.

And that happens in all mechs to the best of us dude. It's not a game Or skill problem sometimes you jet get caught in a bad position vs someone with the perfect situation

If you returned fire and crippled him as much as you could then at least you made it easier for you team to finish him

The game does need a hard heat cap mind you but the premise of this thread is a bit misleading

[Lord Perversor]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

All I saw was a yellow stream coming from him, perhaps he was firing other weapons, all I could see was a bright blaze of yellow.



Didn`t make sense to me either. The end credits said the atlas did 93 damage.

And i have no doubt such thing is doable the 8x Cerml and 2x Gauss build can two shoot an Atlas tru the CT as it can put up to 172 points of dmg in 2x Alphas wich should be enough to kill a 110 front armor Atlas.

but i can also tell you that build will Overheat after the second alpha just before the Gauss can be rdy to shoot twice.

[Heeden]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

All I saw was a yellow stream coming from him, perhaps he was firing other weapons, all I could see was a bright blaze of yellow. Regardless it was just a DWF firing.



Didn`t make sense to me either. The end credits said the atlas did 93 damage.

And people wonder why me, in my light, usually try to stay as far away from the brawl as possible.

Wait, was the yellow stream coming from the Atlas? That's a very common reaction to running face first into a Direwolf.

[nehebkau]

Lord Perversor, on 09 August 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

And i have no doubt such thing is doable the 8x Cerml and 2x Gauss build can two shoot an Atlas tru the CT as it can put up to 172 points of dmg in 2x Alphas wich should be enough to kill a 110 front armor Atlas.

but i can also tell you that build will Overheat after the second alpha just before the Gauss can be rdy to shoot twice.

so you would have to pop a coolant, maybe two then. Still, I submit that there is something really wrong with such a point-specific front-load damage. Had that hit my spider or kitfox you would have to collect my mech from orbit.

Edited by nehebkau, 09 August 2014 - 06:48 PM.

[TB Freelancer]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 August 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

I drive a D-DC... I only die that fast when Tangling with 4 or more enemy (Omni)Mechs.

Joe, if you came around a corner and ran into a pair of waiting Dire Wolves, they'd eat you for lunch if they had the right builds. If they managed to fire first, you might not even get to fire a shot before going down.

That said, a single Dire Wolf vs two of the right builds of Atlas wouldn't fare much better. But it would do a little better, tearing a side off one at the very least.

One thing I'll say about big clan mechs. They have obnoxiously high burst ouput. They can alhpa strike one maybe two times before needing time to cool and are effectively reduced to less than 50% output if the pressure is kept on them. IS builds tend to be able to sustain burst damage much longer that 10 seconds.

I tend to run a mixed laser/gauss alpha boat, and in most of the matches where I get 8 to 10 kills, the enemy plays right into my favor. They see me blow an enemy to hell and they back off not realizing that firing a single shot would cause me to shut down or be riding the edge of the heat scale. Then a few seconds later they try playing peekabo with my massive alpha at fairly close ranges...

...its like watching a bad martial arts film where all the bad guys attack the star one at a time and get their asses kicked when they could just rush him all at once and utterly pound the snot out of him with minimal injuries to anyone.

The whole timid "you go first" mentality comes into play here and I see it a lot.

[Joseph Mallan]

TB Freelancer, on 09 August 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

Joe, if you came around a corner and ran into a pair of waiting Dire Wolves, they'd eat you for lunch if they had the right builds. If they managed to fire first, you might not even get to fire a shot before going down.

That said, a single Dire Wolf vs two of the right builds of Atlas wouldn't fare much better. But it would do a little better, tearing a side off one at the very least.

One thing I'll say about big clan mechs. They have obnoxiously high burst ouput. They can alhpa strike one maybe two times before needing time to cool and are effectively reduced to less than 50% output if the pressure is kept on them. IS builds tend to be able to sustain burst damage much longer that 10 seconds.

I tend to run a mixed laser/gauss alpha boat, and in most of the matches where I get 8 to 10 kills, the enemy plays right into my favor. They see me blow an enemy to hell and they back off not realizing that firing a single shot would cause me to shut down or be riding the edge of the heat scale. Then a few seconds later they try playing peekabo with my massive alpha at fairly close ranges...

...its like watching a bad martial arts film where all the bad guys attack the star one at a time and get their asses kicked when they could just rush him all at once and utterly pound the snot out of him with minimal injuries to anyone.

The whole timid "you go first" mentality comes into play here and I see it a lot.

Exactly like I said, 3-4 Enemy Mechs!

What? You don't think 2 Dire Wolves are as formidable as 4 Other Mechs? And even so 2 Dires won't kill me in 3 seconds Unless I screw the pooch!

[Ph30nix]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 August 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

Exactly like I said, 3-4 Enemy Mechs!

What? You don't think 2 Dire Wolves are as formidable as 4 Other Mechs? And even so 2 Dires won't kill me in 3 seconds Unless I screw the pooch!

or they can aim REALLY well and put everything they have exactly into your CT even then they better get acrit or two.

[Jeb]

Who knows the math?

How much dmg does it take to kill an Atlas CT with 100 or 110 armor?

Edited by Jeb, 09 August 2014 - 07:27 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ph30nix, on 09 August 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

or they can aim REALLY well and put everything they have exactly into your CT even then they better get acrit or two.

Still aint 3 seconds

[Wintersdark]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

It was a pug

Unrelated. There are lots of good players in PUG's too.

[Mister Blastman]

Koniving, on 09 August 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Think that's bad?

See how fast this one dies shortly after 7 minutes.

Hiliarious build. I like it. It reminds me of my Banshee that I dub "Rainbow Brite." Use your imagination.

[Lord Perversor]

Jeb, on 09 August 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

Who knows the math?

How much dmg does it take to kill an Atlas CT with 100 or 110 armor?

As i said before a 8x Cerml and 2x Gauss can kill an Atlas with 110 frontal armor in 2x Alphas (that 3 sec for lasers CD and 4x Gauss CD)

In order to perform the feat the Direwolf needs to deliver exactly the 172 points of dmg to the CT without painting additional ST ( not counting any **extra** dmg by crits on internals)

[AEgg]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

so you would have to pop a coolant, maybe two then. Still, I submit that there is something really wrong with such a point-specific front-load damage. Had that hit my spider or kitfox you would have to collect my mech from orbit.

If you had a spider or kitfox you could have killed the dire wolf easily. They can't turn fast enough to track you even at almost 200m out, let alone point-blank.

Clan weapons in general are far, far better against assaults and heavies than they are against lights due to damage spread mechanics. It's even more apparent for the dire wolf since it can't turn or torso twist fast enough to fight anything that moves.

Of course, ~75% of the queue is heavies and assaults, so surprise-surprise, everyone thinks clantech is overpowered. Play a light or medium, learn to get behind them, and you may change your tone a bit.

Disclaimer: I bought a clan pack but haven't actually used any of the mechs since the two early-access tests (since they aren't out for cbills yet and I don't want to pay for exclusivity).

Edit: More on topic, maybe the atlas pilot forgot to rearmor his front CT. I can admit I've done that once after stripping a mech to rebuild it.

Edited by AEgg, 09 August 2014 - 08:13 PM.

[CocoaJin]

But wait...if the Atlas is torso twisting, is it getting a chance to fire back? With such a short cycle time between DW firing, would the Atlas be required to either torso twist until dead and not shoot back, or shoot back and die in two salvos?

Edited by CocoaJin, 09 August 2014 - 08:20 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

ok doing all the math, the max E hardpoints a DWF can get is 9,
ok C-ER-ML's do 7 damage 7X9=63, and C-ER-MPL do 7.4 damage 7X9=66.6,

so the build can take out an Atlas, assuming it hit the CT, twice, completely,...
so was the Atlas AFK? there are more effective builds with the DWF,

NVA-Prime does 84 damge by default, no modifacations at all,
just saying if the Atlas wasnt Afk, thats a 1:100,000 shot,
most pilots twist their mechs when CT goes armor down,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 09 August 2014 - 08:25 PM.

[YueFei]

Dude, my HBK lasts longer than 6 seconds against a DWF most of the time. There's no excuse for an Atlas pilot to die so quickly.

CocoaJin, on 09 August 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

But wait...if the Atlas is torso twisting, is it getting a chance to fire back? With such a short cycle time between DW firing, would the Atlas be required to either torso twist until dead and not shoot back, or shoot back and die in two salvos?

While ideally you look back and fire when the enemy isn't ready to hit you, if the DWF is using DoT weaponry, and the Atlas has FLD weapons (SRMs + AC) you can even fire simultaneously and then twist clear, spreading damage across 3 or 4 hitboxes.

An Atlas that stares at people can die fast, but that's true of any mech. A mech isn't tough just by virtue of being big and heavily armored, a large part of a mech's toughness involves the pilot's skill. There's over 100 hitpoints in one of the Atlas's arms alone. A good Atlas pilot can soak 200+ damage through an arm and shoulder and still keep going. And then use the dead shoulder to continue soaking hits and mitigating the CT damage down to 50%. A bad Atlas pilot stares at people and dies after taking only 160 damage.

Edited by YueFei, 09 August 2014 - 08:36 PM.

[Pjwned]

Try not standing in front of the biggest, slowest powerhouse in the entire game.

[CocoaJin]

YueFei, on 09 August 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

Dude, my HBK lasts longer than 6 seconds against a DWF most of the time. There's no excuse for an Atlas pilot to die so quickly.



While ideally you look back and fire when the enemy isn't ready to hit you, if the DWF is using DoT weaponry, and the Atlas has FLD weapons (SRMs + AC) you can even fire simultaneously and then twist clear, spreading damage across 3 or 4 hitboxes.

An Atlas that stares at people can die fast, but that's true of any mech. A mech isn't tough just by virtue of being big and heavily armored, a large part of a mech's toughness involves the pilot's skill. There's over 100 hitpoints in one of the Atlas's arms alone. A good Atlas pilot can soak 200+ damage through an arm and shoulder and still keep going. And then use the dead shoulder to continue soaking hits and mitigating the CT damage down to 50%. A bad Atlas pilot stares at people and dies after taking only 160 damage.

But if the Atlas can't get a chance to get a shot off between twisting to soak up damage, won't he just eventually die since the DW isnt going to stop shooting for a bit. Eventually the Atlas will have to choose to face the DW so he can shoot back, or die twisting right?

So maybe the Atlas figured it was better to go down shooting, than to go down twisting like it was 1959.

[Aresye]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

so you would have to pop a coolant, maybe two then. Still, I submit that there is something really wrong with such a point-specific front-load damage. Had that hit my spider or kitfox you would have to collect my mech from orbit.

Lasers aren't front-loaded dude. That alone shows how little you really know about the issues you are complaining about.