421 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

Sandpit, on 16 August 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

I'm going to repeat this
again
(which happens a lot on this forum because people don't read)

WE KNOW THAT THE ACTUAL MAP
MAP = THE MAP ITSELF
DOESN'T COST $250,000

THAT'S WHY I HAVE SAID
(see, this goes back to the whole "don't read, have to repeat)
(again)

IF IT IS COSTING PGI $250,000 TO CREATE A SINGLE MAP THEN IT IS EITHER
(now please note, since I don't want to repeat this)
(again)
(for about the 8th time to you in various threads regarding this)

INCOMPETENCE, POOR MANAGEMENT, POOR RESOURCE MANAGEMENT, POOR TIME MANAGEMENT, POOR PROJECT MANAGEMENT, OR A COMBINATION OF ANY LISTED ITEM
(notice how I never said it's because of something in particular because I don't know what's causing that cost, but I do list several things not JUST the word "incompetence" that need to be looked at because)

IT SHOULD NOT COST $250,000 TO PRODUCE A SINGLE MAP AFTER YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR 3 YEARS.

Ok, did I break that down well enough for you?


As for MY personal experience?

I have, with a few amateur friends (under 10 in number so MUCH smaller than PGI), with NO MONEY OR REVENUE, have built an entire game including coding from nearly the ground up. We took Vampire the Masquerade PC game, and made a complete and total ground up build to make it an exact replication of the TT PnP game including (but not limited to)
MAPS
CODING RULES AND RNG'S
CODING AND SCRIPTING NPCs
COMPLETE NEW MODELS FOR THE CHARACTERS
COMPLETELY NEW TEXTURES AND ARTWORK
COMPLETELY NEW AND ORIGINAL MODELS FOR EVERY ASPECTS OF THE GAME

so yes, I have plenty of experience
oh
I've also
Worked with professional coders and game developers
I've also
taken SDK tools and built everything but the actual code for games

Oh
I've also built, coded, and helped design, manage, and otherwise completely built from nearly the ground up the original Mekwars server (you know, Community Warfare/Inner Sphere War) for Megamek.

No, that's not a complete list because I'm not going to sit here and list my entire "resume" just to satisfy YOUR skepticism.

I hate code, I don't mess with it. I always mess stuff up and cause my games to do strange things..

I am surprised you have such experience and take the stance you do. its amazing.

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 16 August 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

Bloodwolf's sole purpose is to rile people up with his pedantic nonsense.
Just put him on ignore and save yourself the trouble.

You know that discussions with him go on for pages and never lead to anything productive.

Libera te tutemet.

well I was holding out hope for him, because I really thought he might have understood after a conversation we had, I'm just going to wind up putting him on ignore same as Noesis and the others like him. Makes for a much more constructive conversation.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Sandpit, on 16 August 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

which is why you're just showing your ignorance

You "think" a lot of things.

You know sh*t about me. so please, keep going, please keep telling myself and all the others who DO have experience, that we're wrong. Please tell us that we should just "shut up". YOUR ignorance is astounding sir

I take that back because you neglected to mention your experience so how was i supposed to know. Maybe i should read your mind from across my keyboard

[Sandpit]

Aim64C, on 16 August 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

They fully believe this game will eventually stop being profitable and when it becomes unprofitable, they will close the doors and (hopefully) retire. They do not care about company image - to them every company is evil. They do not care about customers - to them all customers are victims. When they close their doors, their distraught employees will be told to **** off and go some place else.

Now that may be the most intelligent and accurate statement I've ever seen written about PGI.
At least that's how it seems.

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

I take that back because you neglected to mention your experience so how was i supposed to know. Maybe i should read your mind from across my keyboard

No, maybe you shouldn't make assumptions about people you don't know instead. How about that?

and keep your ignorant comments to yourself

[BLOOD WOLF]

Sandpit, on 16 August 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

which is why you're just showing your ignorance

You "think" a lot of things.

You know sh*t about me. so please, keep going, please keep telling myself and all the others who DO have experience, that we're wrong. Please tell us that we should just "shut up". YOUR ignorance is astounding sir

I already Ignore Roland, unlike what you just did, he really has nothing to contribute most of the time short of insult.

Sandpit, on 16 August 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

Now that may be the most intelligent and accurate statement I've ever seen written about PGI.
At least that's how it seems.


No, maybe you shouldn't make assumptions about people you don't know instead. How about that?

and keep your ignorant comments to yourself

Really, like you always do and have done before?

Like I said, with such experience I am astounded you say the things you do. I feel now as I always have that most of your statements are just Biased.

I could be wrong about.

[Allen Ward]

So basically we all can agree on this: a new map for 250.000$ that delivers nothing new but graphics, is too costly and not what the community wants. Yes or now?

[BLOOD WOLF]

Allen Ward, on 16 August 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

So basically we all can agree on this: a new map for 250.000$ that delivers nothing new but graphics, is too costly and not what the community wants. Yes or now?

No and yes. We definitely want the high end maps for some aspects, like important places. When it comes to the mundane that is when they should recycle.

[Allen Ward]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

No and yes. We definitely want the high end maps for some aspects, like important places. When it comes to the mundane that is when they should recycle.

And recycling should not cost so much money. Personally I could wait a bit longer for more high end graphics stuff if this would speed up the process to give this game a soul after all. I am really tired of the flat and brainless level of gameplay that MWO has stopped at. I had hopes for a tactics game...disappointed. PGI even called it a simulation way back...so my vote would be: no more maps, mechs, cockpit clutter until a decent CW or at least interesting game modes.

Edited by Allen Ward, 16 August 2014 - 02:27 PM.

[Noesis]

Sandpit, on 16 August 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

I'm just going to wind up putting him on ignore same as Noesis.

PGI please can I have a new achievement badge that I would gladly wear.

Entitled: "Immune to Sandtraps"

[BLOOD WOLF]

Allen Ward, on 16 August 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

And recycling should not cost so much money. Personally I could wait a bit longer for more high end graphics stuff if this would speed up the process to give this game a soul after all. I am really tired of the flat and brainless level of gameplay that MWO has stopped at. I had hopes for a tactics game...disappointed. PGI even called it a simulation way back...so my vote would be: no more maps, mechs, cockpit clutter until a decent CW or at least interesting game modes.

I would agree to a point. A little off topic keep in mind they do not have the dev team of star citizen or larger companies. They always have to reallocate resources. I would think once they get the first phases of CW out they way before the final phases that they would have more time for it. Like I said before its a tradeoff in a sense. Who knows how many people actually work on maps. I agree, stop working on maps and finish the first bits of CW, then Go full force on maps.

Please, anyone I have to keep getting into it for no good reason please put me on ignore.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 16 August 2014 - 02:34 PM.

[Heeden]

I'm guessing this thread degenerating into insults and cult-of-personality conspiracy theories about the socio-political leanings of PGI's employees means no-one can link me the actual statement this thread is based on.

[Ph30nix]

what PGI should be doing instead of having 7-8 people working on each map they should

Have each artist/designer work on creating the varoius fillers seperatly
Go to one guy and say "okay you are working on Flora for swamp enviroment maps"
then another guy "you need to create debris that would be found in swamp enviroment"
guy 3 "you are doing tundra buildings/filler"
etc etc etc for the various climates and maptypes
those guys churn out a few hundred items each
then the map guys use those as templates for whatever map they want to make

Ching ching you just saved 100's of hours. Then have 1-2 guys whos job is to make unique assets for each map created.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Heeden, on 16 August 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

I'm guessing this thread degenerating into insults and cult-of-personality conspiracy theories about the socio-political leanings of PGI's employees means no-one can link me the actual statement this thread is based on.

Let me link the video.

No, only the same few only ever get into insults. feel happy to put me on ignore, what will i ever do without you guys.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 16 August 2014 - 02:36 PM.

[Sandpit]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

I already Ignore Roland, unlike what you just did, he really has nothing to contribute most of the time short of insult.


Really, like you always do and have done before?

Like I said, with such experience I am astounded you say the things you do. I feel now as I always have that most of your statements are just Biased.

I could be wrong about.

smh

NOW it's "you're being biased, since you've proven you might actually know what you're talking about, I'll just switch tactics and "discredit" your statements by saying they're just biased"

Allen Ward, on 16 August 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

So basically we all can agree on this: a new map for 250.000$ that delivers nothing new but graphics, is too costly and not what the community wants. Yes or now?

well everyone except those on the PGI cheerleading team.

Yes, $250,000 is a ludicrous amount to spend on developing a single map.

IF they were still in infancy AND had to build EVERYthing from scratch?
Maybe

3 years in business working on the same project with 3 years worth of resources (art, geometry, textures, etc.) to use?
Not a chance

IF it IS costing that much then whoever is in charge over at PGI needs to start talking to the "map department" about cutting some salaries or revamping the system, or coming up with a new process because their game is suffering for it.

[Henree]

a single map takes 4 months and $250,000 to create because that is what Piranha tells IGP.
If IGP says, oke we will pay, Piranha pumps out a map.

we all know it is not true but if that is what the contractual agreement says....

[Sandpit]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

I would agree to a point. A little off topic keep in mind they do not have the dev team of star citizen or larger companies. .

www.warthunder.com

come up with a new excuse.

[IceWeasel]

I kinda of Think PGI, could do like Star Citzen and have a "Build your Own Planet" competition. teams could get to gether with the Cryengine map tools, and basic art assets that exist and go to town, and have the top 3 entries go into community voting with teams winning prizes, game assets, or money.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Sandpit, on 16 August 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

www.warthunder.com

come up with a new excuse.

nice little game isn't it.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 16 August 2014 - 02:39 PM.

[Allen Ward]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

I would agree to a point. A little off topic keep in mind they do not have the dev team of star citizen or larger companies. They always have to reallocate resources. I would think once they get the first phases of CW out they way before the final phases that they would have more time for it. Like I said before its a tradeoff in a sense. Who knows how many people actually work on maps. I agree, stop working on maps and finish the first bits of CW, then Go full force on maps.

Please, anyone I have to keep getting into it for no good reason please put me on ignore.

Agreed. But this necessity of reallocating constantly is bad management or planning in my opinion. It shows they took a bite too big for them, if this is the right saying. I have managed (and mismanaged) quite some business projects in my career and this reminds me of many typical cases of "high ambitions, low traction". A small team can do a lot, if they do a realistic planning and stick to it. It's easy to get overwhelmed by a project (or by customer demands) and loose track of roadmap, available money, resources, time and so on... So 250,000$ for a map is probably absolutely ok, but a 250K map for MWO is very likely (currently) too costly.

[Heeden]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

nice little game isn't it.

Is that the video? I mean could someone link the recent one that inspired this thread, where they say that even with assets to reuse and more experience it is still costing them 250k per map.