946 replies to this topic

[Roland]

Why don't they allow groups on the solo queue, sand?

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 23 August 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

Why don't they allow groups on the solo queue, sand?

Because groups have an advantage

Where is the rule Roland?

Like I said, if you're saying people who do that suck, hey, I'm fine with that, but saying that it's "cheating" is just false until PGI states any kind of rule that says doing it is cheating.

I'm just pointing out that calling it cheating isn't accurate. It's not against the rules, it's not cheating. It might be against the SPIRIT of the rules, but it's not cheating. It's a douchey thing to do if players are doing it to "prey" on solo players but that's NOT cheating.

[MischiefSC]

Sandpit, on 23 August 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

Sorry, it's not "cheating". There's not a single solitary rule against it. If your opinion is people who do it "suck", well that's fine, but it is NOT cheating. If/when PGI ever says "you can't sync drop in solo queue" THEN it's cheating.

So you're of the opinion that while they split the solo and group queues.... it's still okay to try and syncdrop into the solo queue? Then why split it? Why have a group queue at all?

I'd say it breaks ToS/CoC for trying to exploit. The whole point of the solo queue is.... solo. Hence the word 'solo' in the name for the queue. It's like a 'don't stick a bean up your nose' rule. If you have to actually say 'don't stick a bean up your nose' because otherwise it's totally legit to do so then the problem is that your customers are too stupid to be allowed to hold beans.

Does it break CoC? Probably. Is it worth anything other than pointing and laughing at people who are so emotionally fragile and weak that they can't actually handle the group queue OR the solo queue and have to try and group in the solo queue for some trace of an advantage?

Meh. It's so pitiful it's hard to call it worth reporting. If I saw it though, yeah. I'd report it. Absolutely.

Cheating, exploiting the rules, is cheating. When you ignore that, even when it's embarassing and pitiful, you're making cheating legit.

[Roland]

It seems like the rule is implied based on the fact you aren't allowed to join that queue as a group.

[Kjudoon]

Roland, on 23 August 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

Exactly, it doesn't even matter if you want to call it cheating or not.

If you sync drop, it means you are bad. You are telegraphing how you aren't able to hack it in the big boys queue, because your group is bad.

Uhhh, I have done sync drops with some of the best players in the game if you consider last weeks tournament top 15 to be any indicator. Sync drop doesn't = bad. Sync drop = want to play with friends.

Mystere, on 23 August 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

Precisely.

precisely wrong on this point. Sync dropping is about fun. You want to play with people you enjoy playing with and are sick of Stomptown.

[MischiefSC]

CoC quote:

Quote

Exploiting / Griefing / Non-Participation
Our definition of Exploiting / Griefing includes:

• Wilfully or repeatedly destroying Teammate or Lancemate 'Mechs.
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly self-destructing one's 'Mech by Overheating or going Out-of-Bounds
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly disconnecting during a match.
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly spamming in-game chat.
  
• Persistent non-participation in core game mechanics.
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly taking advantage of an issue for personal gain.

Spo

[Roland]

Kjudoon, on 23 August 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

Uhhh, I have done sync drops with some of the best players in the game if you consider last weeks tournament top 15 to be any indicator. Sync drop doesn't = bad. Sync drop = want to play with friends.

Except that you can play with friends at will by grouping with them.

[Kjudoon]

BLOOD WOLF, on 23 August 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

sync drops are unfair, and you can really tell the difference. Like I said before if everybody just played as a team instead of the look what I can do thought process, the solo que would be a much better place.

get with a group and try it sometime. see how "unfair" it is. you'll be surprised how wrong you are.

[Sandpit]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

So you're of the opinion that while they split the solo and group queues.... it's still okay to try and syncdrop into the solo queue? Then why split it? Why have a group queue at all?

I'd say it breaks ToS/CoC for trying to exploit. The whole point of the solo queue is.... solo. Hence the word 'solo' in the name for the queue. It's like a 'don't stick a bean up your nose' rule. If you have to actually say 'don't stick a bean up your nose' because otherwise it's totally legit to do so then the problem is that your customers are too stupid to be allowed to hold beans.

Does it break CoC? Probably. Is it worth anything other than pointing and laughing at people who are so emotionally fragile and weak that they can't actually handle the group queue OR the solo queue and have to try and group in the solo queue for some trace of an advantage?

Meh. It's so pitiful it's hard to call it worth reporting. If I saw it though, yeah. I'd report it. Absolutely.

Cheating, exploiting the rules, is cheating. When you ignore that, even when it's embarassing and pitiful, you're making cheating legit.

I never said ANYwhere that I personally felt it was ok OR wrong, I pointed out that it's not cheating as there's no rule against it

There's nothing to report. It's not against the rules

Roland, on 23 August 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

It seems like the rule is implied based on the fact you aren't allowed to join that queue as a group.

there's a big difference in joining as a group and trying to sync drop.


Sooooo

If I'm hanging out on the Marik TS server, and I happen to drop in a game with another Marikian on the server and we jump into a channel for the game, that's cheating? It's not identcial to sync dropping but it's similar in nature.

[MischiefSC]

Kjudoon, on 23 August 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

Uhhh, I have done sync drops with some of the best players in the game if you consider last weeks tournament top 15 to be any indicator. Sync drop doesn't = bad. Sync drop = want to play with friends.


precisely wrong on this point. Sync dropping is about fun. You want to play with people you enjoy playing with and are sick of Stomptown.

A person can be a 'bad' and still able to win some matches in the game. It's about trying to exploit for an advantage that makes them bads.

If someone can't handle the group queue then chat with friends while you pug. Syncdropping so that you're in the same match and periodically able to exploit that for an advantage that is strictly blocked otherwise by the design of the queue itself is feeble.

Also.... quote above from CoC.

Willfully or repeatedly taking advantage of an issue for personal gain.

Here's what's in the spoiler under that bit btw:

Quote

To reiterate and clarify the Terms of Use on Prohibited Conduct: As an online game and an ongoing development, we do expect issues to be discovered by players. In cases where an issue can provide an unfair advantage, players are expected to refrain from manipulating these issues. Accidental triggering of an issue will rarely be of concern, though repeated abuse of any such issue reported to us will frequently be met with a warning or sanction. Intentionally joining a match for the sole purpose of disrupting gameplay through any means could be considered actionable.

Don't be that guy. If you can't handle the Group Queue then chat while you pug. Sync-dropping though is trying to cheat because you want the advantages of being in a group but can't hack it in the group queue. Group queue can be competitive, but that's how it rolls. Trying to cheat in an advantage in the solo queue though isn't the solution.

[Sandpit]

Most of you commenting on sync dropping have never tried it have you?

[MischiefSC]

Sandpit, on 23 August 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

I never said ANYwhere that I personally felt it was ok OR wrong, I pointed out that it's not cheating as there's no rule against it

There's nothing to report. It's not against the rules


there's a big difference in joining as a group and trying to sync drop.


Sooooo

If I'm hanging out on the Marik TS server, and I happen to drop in a game with another Marikian on the server and we jump into a channel for the game, that's cheating? It's not identcial to sync dropping but it's similar in nature.

I quoted the CoC. It would certainly cover this.

So, yeah. It's cheating, unless they choose to make an exception for syncdropping. Mockworthy and feeble too.

[Sandpit]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

A person can be a 'bad' and still able to win some matches in the game. It's about trying to exploit for an advantage that makes them bads.

If someone can't handle the group queue then chat with friends while you pug. Syncdropping so that you're in the same match and periodically able to exploit that for an advantage that is strictly blocked otherwise by the design of the queue itself is feeble.

Also.... quote above from CoC.

Willfully or repeatedly taking advantage of an issue for personal gain.

Here's what's in the spoiler under that bit btw:



Don't be that guy. If you can't handle the Group Queue then chat while you pug. Sync-dropping though is trying to cheat because you want the advantages of being in a group but can't hack it in the group queue. Group queue can be competitive, but that's how it rolls. Trying to cheat in an advantage in the solo queue though isn't the solution.

except that it isn't and no amount of posting the ToS or CoC changes that. PGI knows about it and has NEVER said it's against the rules. This isn't a new thing, this has been around since CB. This isn't something they just discovered or learned about.

[Mystere]

Kjudoon, on 23 August 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

precisely wrong on this point. Sync dropping is about fun. You want to play with people you enjoy playing with and are sick of Stomptown.

Context is everything. And the context for my reply was this:

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

It's feeble though. Weak and feeble. Admittedly if anyone is so emotionally weak that they need to syncdrop in the pug queue in the hopes of having an advantage sometimes in some matches.... well, I guess I can't object.... that's so sad it's hard to be upset with it.

I was referring to those highlighted guys.

So, precisely correct.

Edited by Mystere, 23 August 2014 - 06:13 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Sandpit, on 23 August 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

except that it isn't and no amount of posting the ToS or CoC changes that. PGI knows about it and has NEVER said it's against the rules. This isn't a new thing, this has been around since CB. This isn't something they just discovered or learned about.

Groups were allowed prior and there was no group queue.

Now there is. Now there is a solo queue, specifically to split groups from solo players.

[Roland]

Kjudoon, on 23 August 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

Sync dropping is about fun. You want to play with people you enjoy playing with and are sick of Stomptown.

So you want to play with a group, but aren't good enough to play in n the group queue, and get stomped there.

How does that not mean you are bad? Seems like that is exactly what it means.

[Mystere]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Groups were allowed prior and there was no group queue.

Now there is. Now there is a solo queue, specifically to split groups from solo players.

I am no lawyer but, this is one of those "letter vs. spirit of the law" things.

[Sandpit]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Groups were allowed prior and there was no group queue.

Now there is. Now there is a solo queue, specifically to split groups from solo players.

and yet, no amount of opinionated interpretation changes the fact that it's not cheating as there's no rule against it. Now what we SHOULD be doing is askign PGI for clarification on it instead of arguing amongst ourselves because the bottom line is that your opinion is worth abotu as much as mine in this regard and that's nothing.

Mystere, on 23 August 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

I am no lawyer but, this is one of those "letter vs. spirit of the law" things.

that's my point, it's not cheating under the current rules.

now opinions of it are one thing but calling it cheating is an entirely different scenario. There must be a rule against it in order for it to be cheating but it can go against the spirit of the rules without being cheating.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Kjudoon, on 23 August 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

get with a group and try it sometime. see how "unfair" it is. you'll be surprised how wrong you are.

Well, I did jump in a ground and so far I won 4 out of 5 matches. with +7 kills.

[MischiefSC]

Sandpit, on 23 August 2014 - 06:18 PM, said:

and yet, no amount of opinionated interpretation changes the fact that it's not cheating as there's no rule against it. Now what we SHOULD be doing is askign PGI for clarification on it instead of arguing amongst ourselves because the bottom line is that your opinion is worth abotu as much as mine in this regard and that's nothing.


that's my point, it's not cheating under the current rules.

now opinions of it are one thing but calling it cheating is an entirely different scenario. There must be a rule against it in order for it to be cheating but it can go against the spirit of the rules without being cheating.

So the whole thing about cheating is that it's cheating, even if it's not punished.

It has been clarified - it's in the CoC. It's exploiting an issue for an advantage. This isn't about one person grouping and not using Teamspeak and another does; this is about syncdropping to bypass the game engine limitations to prevent groups in the solo queue.

If people are doing it because they think that the solo queue is only the solo queue unless you manage to syncdrop, then it's the group queue.... well, maybe PGI needs to make an announcement that syncdropping to bypass the built in limitations to the solo queue to prevent groups is, in fact, using an exploit to bypass built in limitations.