173 replies to this topic

[Marauder3D]

When taken as a whole, I'm not sure what PGI is trying to encourage with this batch of changes.

I shudder at the LRM 70 Warhawks firing every 3.5 seconds however. I don't think lowering the cooldown on LRMs is remotely warranted. Also, why change clan cooldowns and not IS? That makes no sense.

I'll see you gents on the PTR and muddle through this with you all.

[xCico]

why touch lrms? they are more than good now -.- just leave lrms ...

[Carrie Harder]

ISERLL: What the ****. It was already pretty balanced IMO, and some people even think it could have used a small nudge buff.

CERSL: It was already arguably nerfed when it didn't really need to be (extremely short range brawling niche weapon), and this just seals the deal.

CERML: It was certainly a beastmode amazeballs weapon, but a ISML restoration to the stats it should have would have been much better. But instead, Paul put a bandaid on top of another bandaid.

CERLL: This actually looks like an overall "net" nerf, but maybe 1.6s duration might be bearable this time. Maybe.

CSPL: WHY?!!?1?!?!? It was already inferior to the ISML while both are the same tonnage.

CMPL: Who the hell complained about this weapon? It was used by very few people, and wasn't all that impressive.

CLPL: This one actually qualified as "meta," but only because the CERLL and CERPPC nerfs created a power vacuum and the CLPL was the only thing with the range and damage to fill the void. Otherwise, it was fairly meh.

CLRM5: Did anybody ever use this weapon? I only recall 2, maybe 3 players total that did. A famine of missile hardpoints already made this launcher rare. No nerf needed.

CLRM10/15/20: At this point it's apparent that Paul wanted to normalize all the things just for the sake of doing it. There was not really much point in this at all, and I suspect it will be undone quickly due to LRM whining.

CSSRM4/6: Some buffs in here, still fairly slow cooldown but not quite as bad.

[Fooby]

it's so minor compared to everything else yet I am completely baffled at one point. Why does the C-SL have the same range as the C-SPL now?

[Lily from animove]

I like it, because nothign makes sense.

So running now CERLL boats means 3 LL rarely get any ghost heat. Also they have now again reduced beamduration. So they completely reversed the previous change and made them baoable. I gonna try a Supernova build in a Direwolf. 6 CERLL and 29 DHS tc1.

The Nova prime, people already rant about runnign too hot will now run 20% hotter. ABSOLUTELY GENIOUS. Nova suffers most from this build. While I do think the CERML needed a change the wrong mechs suffered from this.

And OMG dat LRM change, I totally gonna troll the testserver with a 4x15 + artemis Timberwolf this will be hardcore remote controlled CT sniping. I feel almost bad for every Direwolf who can't find Cover .

but thats so far theory, lets see how it plays in the Testserver.

[Roadkill]

Khobai, on 28 August 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

the laser nerfs are fine. we all knew they were coming.

They're mostly fine, but not all. There's no point to the CERSL now, even on the Nova Prime. You're just flat-out better off carrying CERML instead. And the pulse laser nerfs were unwarranted.

The concept of normalization is fine, but when actual gameplay proves you wrong you need to adjust.

You know how the saying goes: "In Theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they are not."

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But why do lrms fire faster now? if anything lrms needed to fire slower, have lower impulse, and slightly more damage.

I'd be fine leaving cycle time and damage where they are and simply reducing impulse. Really the only thing I find annoying/powerful about LRMs right now is the constant rocking that they can cause. Everything else honestly feels about right to me.

[Khobai]

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ISERLL: What the ****. It was already pretty balanced IMO, and some people even think it could have used a small nudge buff.

Agreed. Now theres NO reason to use normal Large Lasers.

[Tlords]

I love the LRM changes and want the same changes for IS. An LRM20 should be better than 4 LRM5s. Heck it ways 2 tons more then 4 LRM5s. Those two tones should get you something other than just weight.

Edited by Tlords, 28 August 2014 - 08:28 AM.

[Carrie Harder]

Khobai, on 28 August 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

Agreed. Now theres NO reason to use normal Large Lasers.

I don't understand...wasn't the weapon that got nerfed the ER Large? So wouldn't that give more reason to use normal Larges, given that its main competition got smacked?

[Khobai]

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I don't understand...wasn't the weapon that got nerfed the ER Large? So wouldn't that give more reason to use normal Larges, given that its main competition got smacked?

ISERLL got buffed. So theres less reason to use ISLL now.

CERLL got nerfed.

[Carrie Harder]

Khobai, on 28 August 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

ISERLL got buffed. So theres less reason to use ISLL now.

CERLL got nerfed.

The IS ERLL now has a 1.5 second duration (50% increase).

Edited by Carrie Harder, 28 August 2014 - 08:31 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Yeah some of it is in the right direction, others all I can say is what were they thinking.

C-ER LL - ok finally the burn gets reduced to usable again and I am find with the range and they could even dial the damage down a bit more but we already saw a 1 point increase to heat from 8 to 9 so it does not need to be upped to 10. Now you need not just one extra DHS to sink the heat of the C-ER LL, but 2 extra. That is 2 tons of weight and 4 crits worth of space required.

C-ER ML - ok this probably needs some adjusting. Again I am ok with the Range reduction but added heat? This is totally going to kill the 12 ER ML build for the Nova. Right now I can do fine with it and manage the heat but adding 12 more heat to the mix is going to destroy the build. This is also going to severely hurt the vast majority of my builds to be honest. Instead of heat increase, just decrease the damage down to 6 instead of 7.

C-LPL - Ok what the hell are they thinking here. C-LPL is barely ok as it is now and if anything it needs some major buffs, not nerfs. Again a range reduction I can understand but it absolutely does not need a heat increase and a 0.1 second duration reduction wouldn't have been enough to justify the range reduction let along the heat increase.

C-MPL - Ok this is just getting ridiculous. EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE knows that the C-MPL is worthless yet instead of a buff, they are nerfing it and nerfing it pretty hard. All I can say is WoW.

IS ER-LL. All I got to ask is why? The IS ER LL has been in game forever and was working fine. It doesn't need a 1.5 duration and a 0.5 heat reduction no where near compensates for the 50% increase in burn time.

C-LRM cooldown changes. Ok again why? I know this one is mostly a buff, but Clan LRMs don't need a buff. Sure they aren't as effective as IS LRMs but they have their own advantages such as lighter weight and no minimum range. They don't need a buff.

Honestly, now that I think about it, the only change I really like is the C-Streaks. Cooldowns on the larger lanchers were really too long. This helps.

[VagGR]

i cannot facepalm hard enough....i ll wait for the test server but if the numbers translate to what they seem right now i'll just have to bang my head on a wall....because i cannot faepalm hard enough

[Khobai]

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The IS ERLL now has a 1.5 second duration (50% increase).

but the heat was also reduced.

even with the longer beam duration the ISERLL is now a much better weapon than the ISLL.

[ApolloKaras]

Khobai, on 28 August 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

but the heat was also reduced.

even with the longer beam duration the ISERLL is now a much better weapon than the ISLL.

Especially considering the module increases the range to 1k

[Tlords]

Carrie Harder, on 28 August 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

CLRM5: Did anybody ever use this weapon? I only recall 2, maybe 3 players total that did. A famine of missile hardpoints already made this launcher rare. No nerf needed.

I am sorry, but have to disagree with you. LRM5's are deadlier than 10's, 15's or 20's, if you have the hardpoints. They target center of mass and do not need Artemis to tighten up their thread. 4LRM5s will core a mech quicker under the old reload systems than 2LRM20's with Artemis and do it with less missiles fired. This means 8 tons kill mechs quicker than 22 tons.

[Khobai]

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LRM5's are deadlier than 10's, 15's or 20's,

Correct. LRM5s have a way tighter spread than any of the other launchers. They drill into peoples CTs.

Slowing down LRM5s made sense. Speeding up the other launchers not so much.

[Roland]

Khobai, on 28 August 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

but the heat was also reduced.

even with the longer beam duration the ISERLL is now a much better weapon than the ISLL.

The ERLL was already much better than the LL.
This was a HUGE nerf to it.

[Carrie Harder]

Khobai, on 28 August 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

but the heat was also reduced.

even with the longer beam duration the ISERLL is now a much better weapon than the ISLL.

Except that the ISLL is substantially more "frontloaded" now. 50% duration increase and a 6.25% heat decrease...which one of those has a higher magnitude?


On a side note, the new level 5 range mod for the ISLL brings it range up to 500/1000, and doesn't give a heat penalty. That, along with the trollololol 1.5s duration, make the ISLL much more appealing.

Tlords, on 28 August 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

I am sorry, but have to disagree with you. LRM5's are deadlier than 10's, 15's or 20's, if you have the hardpoints. They target center of mass and do not need Artemis to tighten up their thread. 4LRM5s will core a mech quicker under the old reload systems than 2LRM20's with Artemis and do it with less missiles fired. This means 8 tons kill mechs quicker than 22 tons.

Except that Clan mechs have no hardpoint inflation, which means the most Lurms you can possibly carry on any chassis is currently 5 launchers (Summoner, Stormcrow). Most chassis max out at 4 or fewer. IS mechs can take advantage of the LRM5 somewhat better due to having hardpoint inflation, but the Clans often have to use middle-size launchers to make the most of their often limited hardpoints.

Edited by Carrie Harder, 28 August 2014 - 08:41 AM.

[Ultimax]

Mister Blastman, on 28 August 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Why... Don't they just return the IS lasers to their pre-nerf values instead?! WHY?

I heard some IS mech-barbies got shot by the CLAN PULSE LAZORS and then they had a sad.

So they had to be normalized.