876 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

No 12 v 10?
At this point you should be thinking about removing the "A BattleTech Game" from your logo and maybe replacing it with "A Generic Mech Game".

[NocturnalBeast]

Funny, after today's nerf clan mechs need tier 5 weapon modules just to have the same range that their weapons used to have without them, how does this benefit "new" players, since now, more than ever, these weapon module will be necessary?

[BLOOD WOLF]

After reading I can understand why, but that doesnt change the fact that i want it.

[C E Dwyer]

movement penalties good for losing side torso, and should be the case..

but heat penalties o.O

Surely losing all the heat sinks in that side and arm is enough penalty

As to 10v12

the canon people will dislike this, the others won't care..

As to the heat penalties..

I think this is naff

When I play my IS mechs I have a choice standard lasers, or for extra heat I can pick up extra range..

Clans don't have this choice, and now your giving them more heat for less range, while having less choice of load out, surely reducing range and increasing the cool down would have been better..

As currently IS standard lasers are the better choice, and certainly so for new players

Edited by Cathy, 05 September 2014 - 02:05 PM.

[Weaselball]

Gyrok, on 05 September 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Actually, my point went way over your head a long time ago...

You cannot fathom that anyone would want to play a game balanced in such a manner because it does not make sense to you.

However, you are not some of the other people in the world who understand what it would take to do something like that. So, the fact that the concept escapes you is actually not at all surprising...you have no clan mechs, you do not understand.

I actually own a Nova purchased for c-bills.

This game is not the tabletop. Get over it. If you want this game to strictly adhere to TT rules then every weapon you shoot will have a 10 second cycle time - no exceptions. There will be no pinpoint damage. Every time you shoot it will randomize the hit location - no exceptions. You will not be able to customize inner-sphere mechs as the ability to do so is typically beyond the average technician at the time and would drastically affect the mechs gyros and myromer loads - no exception.

Sounds like a terrible videogame. A great tabletop game, for sure, but a terrible, terrible videogame.

[NocturnalBeast]

BOWMANGR, on 05 September 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

Everything seems good for me.

If they increased Time To Kill like yesterday I would be even happier.

Also, MOAR heavy-impact quirks please, especially for mechs that you can plainly see from your telemetry that are underperformers.

I would prefer the 10vs12 approach but totally understand that it would create a ton of problems to solve regarding MMaking, balance, salvage balance and UI changes. Now we need to make clear to butthurt Clan players that balance is more important than lore any day for an online deathmatch game. This is not a novel or a TT table.

No, what we need are for people like you to spend more time playing the game and getting better at it, rather than whining for everything to be nerfed to make the game easier for you. Remember, you will eventually be able to buy any clan mech with Cbills and pilot them yourself, are you going to whine for buffs, when you get destroyed by IS mechs every game?

[Solomon Ward]

I have to admit i am rather disappointed that you dumped 10 vs 12 but it came not unexpected.

I know it would have been the more difficult path but also the more immersive one.

[BLOOD WOLF]

NGNG, did a Clan vs IS event. Even though the I.S won some matches the Clans still crushed them.

That does not mean it was always by firepower, could have been other factors.

[CyclonerM]

Heffay, on 05 September 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

Clan lore sucks. Abandoning it is the right thing to do. It's time for a clan lore reboot. If you want to maintain the "lore" of their superiority, stick to "they were better pilots, in newer gear with better maintenance and far better training."

verybad, on 05 September 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

IF you don't want to play as the Communist Individual warriors believing it is their destiny to reforge the Star League and rule the glaaxy from earth, then WHAT the hell do you care about the lore in any case?

Ironically, very well played, verybad

Fajther, on 05 September 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

The last I checked we were playing a game called mwomercs. I guess that means no matter how much you want to call yourself a clanner you will always just be freebirth mercenary. And so it will always be lance vs lance.

This makes no sense, sorry.
<----This Clan Wolf tag -right, this one- means i have decided to forge my path in Clan Wolf. I have no prejudice about mercs, but i am not a merc. I am not sure about why the website domain is called like that, but i am a Clan warrior now. Anyway, what does it have to do with 10vs12?

BLOOD WOLF, on 05 September 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

NGNG, did a Clan vs IS event. Even though the I.S won some matches the Clans still crushed them.

That does not mean it was always by firepower, could have been other factors.

Well, i played two matches and in one the Clan team was crushed, and the other one saw the IS team crushed. It could definitely be a combination of more factors. Well, in the match we won we had Sean Lang himself coordinating our team in a well made and original plan that worked in an excellent way

Edited by CyclonerM, 05 September 2014 - 02:13 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

NuclearPanda, on 05 September 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

Chimed in to say that I'm thoroughly disappointed and feel it's quite lazy to write off 10v12 completely. I would understand why it would NOT be an option at this time, but to write it off so blatantly like you did within the post makes me a sad panda.

This game is moving further and further away from being an actual Mechwarrior title into being Generic Robot Shooter XXVIV.

Been doing that since closed beta you only just realised MWO is just another generic stompy robot game ?

[cSand]

10v12 was a terrible idea and the only argument it had for it was Lore (and the "clanners are OP I need an easy button" school of thought) and frankly gameplay>lore any day of the week for this guy.

I for one did not want to have to have the satisfaction of victory robbed from me because "after all, they were down 2 men".


ALL of this looks good and I hope it is followed through with. YEEHAW

[CyclonerM]

Cathy, on 05 September 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

Been doing that since closed beta you only just realised MWO is just another generic stompy robot game ?

I have hoped that this could change. I was wrong.

May mass-marketing burn in flames.

Edited by CyclonerM, 05 September 2014 - 02:14 PM.

[Gyrok]

Doctor Proctor, on 05 September 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

Apples and Oranges, and exactly the sort of problem I was talking about. In Star Craft your unit attack each other automatically with predetermined loadouts and at exact pace and damage values. Therefore, you can balance a couple Zerglings to one Space Marine by giving them say, half the HP and half the damage.

In MWO, however, you don't have auto attacking units that follow precise prescripted attack sequences with known values. Instead you have pilots each in their fully customizable mechs firing when the decide to with whatever weapons they choose. This is MUCH harder to balance as it's not just a simple matter of making the Clan mechs X% stronger to compensate for the lower numbers.

Not to mention the fact that in Star Craft a Zergling is but one of many units that a player controls. Losing a single Zergling doesn't really affect a player that much, and in many cases may be part of a strategy for an overall win. In MWO, however, each mech is piloted by a player. If I'm in my Hunchback and turn a corner into a single Nova, I now that in 10v12 I've already lost because he's X% more powerful than me and should flat out beat in a 1v1 fight since ton for ton he's in a superior mech. Then I can sit out the rest of the round, unable to play anymore. That's not really fun at all. Neither is the Nova turning a corner into a 2v1 because you have superior numbers.

That edge case is the same result in 12v12. Turn the corner and find an assault in a hunchback, and he is X% more powerful already, and if there are 2 mechs you still die.

That simply means do not get caught out away from the pack...

[Mystere]

Well, it looks like I almost nailed it (with some edits):

Mystere, on 02 September 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

I am getting the impression that some (Or is that "many"/"most"?) people seem even PGI seems to think that the only way to balance IS vs. Clans is for:

• IS Mechs = Clan Mechs
  
• IS Weapons = Clan Weapons
  
• IS Equipment = Clan Equipment
  
• IS Weights = Clan Weights
  
• IS Critical Slots = Clan Critical slots

Or in other words, the Clans are nothing more than just reskinned versions of the IS.

That would be really great and absolutely exiting, especially for a so-called "A BattleTech Game".

Getting at least 3 out 5 ain't bad.

[C E Dwyer]

Weaselball, on 05 September 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

I actually own a Nova purchased for c-bills.

This game is not the tabletop. Get over it. If you want this game to strictly adhere to TT rules then every weapon you shoot will have a 10 second cycle time - no exceptions. There will be no pinpoint damage. Every time you shoot it will randomize the hit location - no exceptions. You will not be able to customize inner-sphere mechs as the ability to do so is typically beyond the average technician at the time and would drastically affect the mechs gyros and myromer loads - no exception.

Sounds like a terrible videogame. A great tabletop game, for sure, but a terrible, terrible videogame.

lol you just described the game I wish this was, no min-maxing a balanced game with no advantage going to the people that played the longest to grind all the extra doda

[Gyrok]

Weaselball, on 05 September 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

I actually own a Nova purchased for c-bills.

This game is not the tabletop. Get over it. If you want this game to strictly adhere to TT rules then every weapon you shoot will have a 10 second cycle time - no exceptions. There will be no pinpoint damage. Every time you shoot it will randomize the hit location - no exceptions. You will not be able to customize inner-sphere mechs as the ability to do so is typically beyond the average technician at the time and would drastically affect the mechs gyros and myromer loads - no exception.

Sounds like a terrible videogame. A great tabletop game, for sure, but a terrible, terrible videogame.

Wooptie doo...you own one mech...

You have no concept...what so ever...THAT game you described is what a larger portion of the playerbase than you will ever realize actually wants...

THAT would be BattleTech.

Welcome to generic FPS with big stompy robots online...err...I meant...MW:O...Mechwarrior in name only...

Edited by Gyrok, 05 September 2014 - 02:20 PM.

[Jabilo]

Disappointed.

10 vs 12:

A wonderful opportunity for exciting asynchronous game play and a fresh way to look at a game that desperately needs new modes and player experiences.

Nerfing the clans until all the mechs are just the same grey mush = huge wasted opportunity.

You took the easy way out - why am I not surprised? Because it's what you always do.

I actually looked forward to the challenge of facing two stars of clanners with their unstoppable tech, knowing I had 11 brave inner sphere warriors with me.

Oh well, never mind.

Edit: It has been one hell of a long run for me with MWO and I have enjoyed every damn minute, I love you guys, but there has just been nothing new to do in the game for a long time.

After all this time I think I am starting to reach the end.

At the end of the day a few decimal points moved left or right on Paul's spread sheet doesn't mean a damn.

We need new maps, new game modes, better optimisation, better graphics, UI fixes and a complete rework of several mechanics (electronic warfare, jump jets, modules and pilot skill trees to name a few).

Edited by Jabilo, 05 September 2014 - 02:33 PM.

[stjobe]

Hey, Clan 'mechs have blue HUDs, that makes them different enough, doesn't it?

No matter that the Clans actually have a history going back to 1990, no matter that there's tons of lore and rules defining what is Clan and what is not, no matter that there's a big ol' "a BattleTech game" patch on the logo up there. Scratch all that.

The Clans have blue HUDs, the IS have yellow HUDs, that's all the difference we need.

Right?

[Dark Jackal]

I'm surprised there was actually some consideration for 10 v 12 thing warranting a post by Russ as it was obviously never going to be viable from the outset even if the reasons given could be surmounted. When the Blue chips are down no one is going to, on an even tonnage scenario, forfeit the option of bringing in two extra guys into a drop because tactically those two guys do make a difference pulling in their weight. Anyone that has ever played any other FPS game where that 11th man joined the other team for a 10v12 knows what I'm talking about.

Uneven teams is simply not an option on a FPS platform regardless of whatever universe you set it in.

[Doctor Proctor]

Gyrok, on 05 September 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

That edge case is the same result in 12v12. Turn the corner and find an assault in a hunchback, and he is X% more powerful already, and if there are 2 mechs you still die.

That simply means do not get caught out away from the pack...

It's not an edge case. Against an Assault in my HBK I likely have greater speed and torso twist to spread damage and return fire as I retreat. This is exactly the case when I turn the corner into an Atlas. Sometimes I die, sometimes I don't, but it's balanced.

With the Nova I am talking about something else entirely. We have the same armor, same tonnage, same speed, same engine. For all intents and purposes it should be the same as walking around a corner into another HBK, except that under 10v12 I will lose EVERY TIME because it's weapons have to be flat out superior to mine in every single in order to make up for the 2 mech difference. That's not an "edge case" because it applies to every mech in the game. Any time you would have a 1v1 between mechs of the same tonnage the Clan mech would win EVERY TIME, otherwise 10v12 won't work.