876 replies to this topic

[NocturnalBeast]

SgtKinCaiD, on 06 July 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

Even if the TBR and the SCR have been nerfed, Clan players moved on the HBR and the Ebon with similar loadouts. Not the same Mechs but similar weapons loadouts, see the connection ? Who cares about more weapon heat or longer beam duration when you have better damage and better range ???

The HBR is only a viable mech because of ECM. The EBJ is an all-round great mech, like a heavy SCR (pre-nerf), but don't worry, all Clan mechs get nerfed after all of the players who were willing to spend money on the mechs have and they are available for Cbills.

Edited by Ed Steele, 06 July 2015 - 04:55 PM.

[Arc Viper]

Every patch I see another wave of nerfs hit the clans. I used to like piloting a timberwolf. How many more times are they going to nerf it? I'm starting to feel like I'm playing CW with a handicap just because there are a large number of amazing players on the clan side right now. It's why I almost always pilot IS mechs in pug drops to make c-bills. Easier to dish out damage because you don't overheat every 2 seconds.

[Gremlich Johns]

Double Heat Sinks should actually be Double, not 1.4.

Clan ERPPC should also be 15 dmg, not 10.

[GI Journalist]

Giving Inner Sphere mechs with hands a physical attack would give them a tactic that the Clans would not share. Mechs like the Hatchetman and Axeman were considered barbaric by the Clans, but engaging at point blank range with physical attacks could give the Inner Sphere an equalizer in combat.

Most Clans refrained from hand to hand mech combat. Furthermore, most Clan Mechs lack fists, so this would be a Inner Sphere unique style of play that could reduce the need for physics breaking quirks.

[Gorgo7]

Gremlich Johns, on 08 July 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

Double Heat Sinks should actually be Double, not 1.4.

Clan ERPPC should also be 15 dmg, not 10.

Clan ER PPC is 15 damage.

[Gorgo7]

Clan balance...impossible at this point.
Probably the best way to balance the clan in CW would be to limit them to a drop deck of three instead of four, with a correspondingly lower drop weight of 180 tons. Once the clan had their asses kicked for 9 or 12 months PGI could reduce the fire times of the clans weapons to normal (IS) levels and you would push them from a superior mech to an uber mech! All would be well.

My two cents.

[Lily from animove]

Gorgo7, on 14 July 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

Clan balance...impossible at this point.
Probably the best way to balance the clan in CW would be to limit them to a drop deck of three instead of four, with a correspondingly lower drop weight of 180 tons. Once the clan had their asses kicked for 9 or 12 months PGI could reduce the fire times of the clans weapons to normal (IS) levels and you would push them from a superior mech to an uber mech! All would be well.

My two cents.

and with this break entirely the non CW queues, because there its 12 vs 12 mechs mixed.

[pyrocomp]

Lily from animove, on 16 July 2015 - 02:33 AM, said:

and with this break entirely the non CW queues, because there its 12 vs 12 mechs mixed.

Either limit to Clan vs Clan and IS vs IS only (if there is enough players, and currently there is enough players) or balance tech, e.g. not default 3/3/3/3 but 1+2/1+2/1+2/1+2 (of whatever the Clan/IS population is). This will boost Clan Mech's usage (with un-nerfing them), but additional reward 'Clan down' can heal that.

PS: but in second scenario a programmer who understands code of MM is needed, badly needed.

Edited by pyrocomp, 16 July 2015 - 07:42 AM.

[Gorgo7]

Lily from animove, on 16 July 2015 - 02:33 AM, said:

and with this break entirely the non CW queues, because there its 12 vs 12 mechs mixed.

No, there would be zero change in non CW ques. They would be as they are now. personally CW is what gets my goat.
Cheers!

[Gorgo7]

Yes, perhaps PGI could check their stats and see what the clan K/d ratio is in CW...then adjust the tonnage towards a reduction after reducing the drop deck from 4 to 3. Balancing could be from a reduction in time on target for Clan weapons to allowing three L lases to fire without ghost heat to what-ever. IS would recieve fewer rewards but Clan would recieve more ( and spend more on Clan gear!)
That would be fair and balanced.

Well Paul?

What do you say?

Would love an answer.


Gorgo7

[Stoneblade]

Remove all quirks. Give Clan weapons higher//longer cool-downs than IS counterparts. Clan Machines are supposed to be the "Peak fighting Machine" so to balance them in public que is a joke. The only balance they should see is in the CW que. The "Hardcore" game mode.

[Chuck Jager]

Gremlich Johns, on 08 July 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

Clan ERPPC should also be 15 dmg, not 10.

Why should one group get 5 extra PP damage for 1 less ton and the same heat in a mathematical equation that is supposed to be balanced (it already gets 5 splash damage). NOTE locked ferro/endo does not equal 5 PP damage.

At what age did you learn that Santa is not real.

In western cultural lore (analogy for TT) Santa Claus is a cute old man who brings children presents. In reality (analogy for MWO) he is a drunk who works at wal mart as a reminder that one culture still tries to push itself on everybody else. It may be good to look at the fact that Christmas lore was assimilated from pagans to begin with to help governments rule conquered peoples with a new lore that used existing imagery to ease/force the transition. Yes this does add a major element to the who is good and evil. I just wanted to say it before somebody else did. The important thing is a storyline does change and the reality of a lore is still a story that needs to fit a modern context or it looses the mythology/religious significance and becomes bad pulp fiction.

IE This is not table top.

Edited by Chuck YeaGurr, 27 July 2015 - 11:50 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Gorgo7, on 16 July 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

No, there would be zero change in non CW ques. They would be as they are now. personally CW is what gets my goat.
Cheers!

thats the point why the 12 vs 12 breaks. you balance the CW by tonnage difference, which implies, clanmechs are stonger. but in the non CW queues its 12 vs 12 so the stronger clans (if really better), would imbalance the non CW queue depending how MM randomly distributes more clans to one side. Mechs of both factions needs to be balanced to eahc other to properly work in CW and non CW matches. Otherwise you owuld have to make non CW matches a 9 vs 12 as well.

Chuck YeaGurr, on 27 July 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

Why should one group get 5 extra PP damage for 1 less ton and the same heat in a mathematical equation that is supposed to be balanced (it already gets 5 splash damage). NOTE locked ferro/endo does not equal 5 PP damage.

Even further there are clanmechs without ES/FF and there are some with, so any attemp of explaining a clantechs "downside" by locked specific equipment is basically invalid, since this equipment is not equally blocked while the wepaon on both mechs is the same.

[Gorgo7]

Lily from animove, on 28 July 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

thats the point why the 12 vs 12 breaks. you balance the CW by tonnage difference, which implies, clanmechs are stonger. but in the non CW queues its 12 vs 12 so the stronger clans (if really better), would imbalance the non CW queue depending how MM randomly distributes more clans to one side. Mechs of both factions needs to be balanced to eahc other to properly work in CW and non CW matches. Otherwise you would have to make non CW matches a 9 vs 12 as well.

I understand you to mean that if we change CW for balance we must change Pug matches for balance. I don't know about this and frankly I see Pug matches as a nice way to practice and try new Mechs. It has no relation to CW.

My point is that because there must always be a 12 vs.12 for any fighting the bets way of balancing CW would be to drop Clan respawns to 3.
The tonnage could be fiddled but would be best to start at 180 for clans. CW and the persistent universe is what needs to be fixed first.
Clan gear is very much superior to IS gear currently and should be by lore.
*Note that Clan in CW hardly make war on Clan. They make war on IS.
-It pays better and is more of a winning proposition.
-IS prefers to make war on IS as the games are more balanced and you can get your tags on a planet.
-The above statements are generalizations but basically true.

Can you, Lily, in all honesty as a Clan pilot tell me that your outfit makes more war on other Clans then the IS?

Recently the stats were provided for this latest Hardcore Unit Challenge.

Stats are funny, often they open up lines of questioning.

For example;

The IS had 5449 people play and the Clan had 4419 play. 10 to 8 (12 to 9.6)
The IS destroyed a total of 133,759 mechs and the Clan destroyed 146,794 mechs. 10 to 11
The IS averaged 9338 points of damage per player and the Clan averaged 11,437 per player. 10 to 12

IF the ratio for damage holds true for C-Bills (and there is a correlation) then,

The average IS player 2,893,000 c-bills and the average Clanner 3,544,000 c-bills. 10 to 12

Adjust ALL the above stats and make it 12 to 9 in terms of players and what you get is a gentle drift towards parity.
Perhaps a weight of IS 220 to Clan180 (The IS was always Medium centric for weight)

That is what I would like to see in CW for balance.

P.S. I liked your story Lily!

Edited by Gorgo7, 29 July 2015 - 07:23 PM.

[NocturnalBeast]

Gremlich Johns, on 08 July 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

Double Heat Sinks should actually be Double, not 1.4.

Clan ERPPC should also be 15 dmg, not 10.

Let me correct that for you:

Clan and IS heatsinks should be double, not 1.4,

Clan ERPPCs should do 15 points of PINPOINT damage, not 2.5/10/2.5...

Clan mechs should be able to mix and match omni pods, but should not be able to change the contents of the omni pods.

IS mechs should be unplayable for a duration of time based on the amount and complexity of modifications which are being done on those mechs.

Edited by Ed Steele, 28 July 2015 - 05:03 PM.

[Lightfoot]

Chuck YeaGurr, on 27 July 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

Why should one group get 5 extra PP damage for 1 less ton and the same heat in a mathematical equation that is supposed to be balanced (it already gets 5 splash damage). NOTE locked ferro/endo does not equal 5 PP damage.

At what age did you learn that Santa is not real.

In western cultural lore (analogy for TT) Santa Claus is a cute old man who brings children presents. In reality (analogy for MWO) he is a drunk who works at wal mart as a reminder that one culture still tries to push itself on everybody else. It may be good to look at the fact that Christmas lore was assimilated from pagans to begin with to help governments rule conquered peoples with a new lore that used existing imagery to ease/force the transition. Yes this does add a major element to the who is good and evil. I just wanted to say it before somebody else did. The important thing is a storyline does change and the reality of a lore is still a story that needs to fit a modern context or it looses the mythology/religious significance and becomes bad pulp fiction.

IE This is not table top.

I think the issue is that Clan tech has no cool running PPC at 10 heat and that DHS 1.4 puts a operational cap on heat at about 25 heat, 30 with 20 plus heatsinks. Any higher heat than that and you are always better off with Lasers for energy weapons, but add to that the inaccuracy of MWO's current slow-mo ERPPCs and there is no justification for the 15 heat on ERPPCs.

Which is why MWO is Laser-Vomit, Clan and I.S. With the heat at 15 all you can do with ERPPCs is peek-a-boo over a ridge unless you are just carrying one as a back-up, but most heavy mechs and up with ERPPCs carry 2 or more. At 1150 to 1200 mps ERPPCs are not long range weapons and at 15 heat they don't keep up with Lasers at short range. ERPPCs are just set up to fail, not to compete.

[SplashDown]

atm clan needs they heat redone..its way off balance compared to IS mechs..clan can hardly fit or fire they wepons without allmost over heating in a single volly..imo thats broken.

[Walsung]

clan damage per ton per heat ~ 30% with a slight range advantage greater then IS equivalent with more flexible pod space except lasers which are only about 5-8% with a ~25% range advantage. the XL engines decreased crit sensitivity is worth 10-15% in durability. I can't find stat differences between IS and clan double heat sinks that someone said above which may affect this but there only seem to be only a few IS mechs that are quirked in useful ways to this level.

So I am not sure why people are complaining about clan mechs comparative fire power (from the clan side)

Edited by Walsung, 07 March 2016 - 06:29 PM.

[Graugger]

SplashDown, on 02 October 2015 - 08:42 AM, said:

atm clan needs they heat redone..its way off balance compared to IS mechs..clan can hardly fit or fire they wepons without allmost over heating in a single volly..imo thats broken.

Hmm maybe if you weren't fitting between 8 to 11 medium lasers over and IS mechs 4-6 you wouldn't be having such problematic heat issues.

[Chados]

You know, there is some truth to that. I find that it's possible to put a Timberwolf at a heat rating of 1.4, but that puts its alpha firepower in the 40s. Weak for a Clan heavy. But it can keep moving fast and keep shooting, and I almost never get heat shutdown problems even on Terra Therma.

An alpha in the 40s. That's *weak* for a Clan heavy, but a 40-point alpha ain't too shabby for most IS heavies. That's the rough mean for 3R Marauders.

I think it's this that causes IS pilots to roll their eyes when Clan pilots complain about their heat issues. Yes, their gear is hotter. But all of their weapons are lighter, use less crits, are better ranged, and do more damage. Their heat issues magnify when you're a Jenner packing a 72-point alpha strike! That's more one-click firepower than the best Marauder 3R builds, mechs that are twice the Jenner's weight. There is a reason I typically like to run a Timberwolf in the group queue, where there is more coordination and the opponents higher-ranked in tier than me. It gives me a fighting chance to contribute because it tanks like a Banshee, moves like a Wolverine (same speed, speed-tweaked as the base Quarantine, 87.1 kph), and packs the firepower of a Marauder...in their words, it tanks like a 90 tonner, moves like a 55 tonner, and hits like the rest of the 75 ton class it is in.

That's not too shabby.