876 replies to this topic

[Mordin Ashe]

Clan Mechs need either moderate quirks (holy trinity excluded) or light quirks + unlocking FF/ES upgrades and removability of JJs/DHS/BAP/Flamers/other useless stuff.

[Colonel Fubar]

I'll take an IS challenge anytime rather than a Clan foregone conclusion.
Until That Day!

[kosmos1214]

Mystere, on 04 January 2015 - 11:29 PM, said:

I am so tired of these never ending nerfs. So, one way to possibly quell the obviously growing discontent is to also give one or two Clan Chassis similar ERPPC quirks given to Awesomes and Thunderbolts. I say give the Summoner and Masakari the same treatment. I have seen very few Masakaris and absolutely no Summoners so far in CW. ERPPC quirks should help players in deciding to bring more of them.

iv seen quite a few of them my self but that just me

[ManusDei]

It's always the same feeling you get when Russ and his fabulous development team start tinkering with balance: disappointment. I took a two month break. Before I left all you could hear from most IS groups is their endless crying about "the clans are OP". Two months later, I come back and decided to leave IS because I liked the clan tech.

Today all you hear from clan groups is how the IS Mech are OP. I don't hear any IS group complain clan mechs are OP. Nope, they have been silenced by the buffed armor, buffed internals, and endless IS quirks. If Clan Mechs and IS Mechs are completely balanced...there is no incentive to run either one unless its based on some misguided sense of nostalgia. The game in its current state does not make clan tech superior. In affect the game has become nothing more than a watered down version of battletech, manipulated and tweaked to suit the needs of the game developers programming requirements. Bravo job well done. You have accomplished what you set out to achieve. I believe PGI likes to refer to it as.balance while other groups may use more colorful descriptions of the game.

[LordKnightFandragon]

All Clans should get a 25% heat dissipation buff, SCR/DWF/TBR included. They should all be packing DOUBLE heatsinks....I suppose Canadian math doesnt teach what double is...double of 1(single heatsinks) is 2....hence, single heatsinks cool 1, Doubles cool 2......Why 1.4? why? seriously? stuff like that doesnt even make sense...

[kosmos1214]

LordKnightFandragon, on 12 January 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

All Clans should get a 25% heat dissipation buff, SCR/DWF/TBR included. They should all be packing DOUBLE heatsinks....I suppose Canadian math doesnt teach what double is...double of 1(single heatsinks) is 2....hence, single heatsinks cool 1, Doubles cool 2......Why 1.4? why? seriously? stuff like that doesnt even make sense...

because 1.4 squared is 1.96 remember heat sinks all so add to your max heat cap (in this game ) for your mech so that 1.4 to cooling and 1.4 to heat cap

[LordKnightFandragon]

kosmos1214, on 12 January 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

because 1.4 squared is 1.96 remember heat sinks all so add to your max heat cap (in this game ) for your mech so that 1.4 to cooling and 1.4 to heat cap

I get that, but why not a 2.0? Cuz PGI wanted to add an extra feature of adding xtra heat cap instead of just making them 2.0s and them strictly applying to heat dissipation?

[kosmos1214]

LordKnightFandragon, on 13 January 2015 - 10:40 AM, said:

I get that, but why not a 2.0? Cuz PGI wanted to add an extra feature of adding xtra heat cap instead of just making them 2.0s and them strictly applying to heat dissipation?

game play they would be to powerful they have stated multiple time they ran a test build with it in house and it was jest to big a difference from shs and the fact is save a rare few lights shs are obsileat any way compared to dhs at 1.4 and the first 10 built in the the engine are true dhs any way

[Lily from animove]

kosmos1214, on 12 January 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

because 1.4 squared is 1.96 remember heat sinks all so add to your max heat cap (in this game ) for your mech so that 1.4 to cooling and 1.4 to heat cap

heat cap is irreleveant if you have superhot heat inefficient ressources. For clanner shaving 2.0 dissipation and 0 heta cap increase may be a better balanc,e they cna sustain better dps, but would not be able to fire al the laz0rs.

maybe that would be an interrsting balance between IS DHS and clanner DHS.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Lily from animove, on 15 January 2015 - 01:34 AM, said:

heat cap is irreleveant if you have superhot heat inefficient ressources. For clanner shaving 2.0 dissipation and 0 heta cap increase may be a better balanc,e they cna sustain better dps, but would not be able to fire al the laz0rs.

maybe that would be an interrsting balance between IS DHS and clanner DHS.

So the Clans get significantly less heat cap but better heat dissipation paired alongside much higher per weapon heat and longer beam times? Umm, lolno? Id vote for the change to a fixed heat cap at 50-60 and 2.0 DHS and 1.4 SHS. No faction should really be "Firin all the laz0rz"...

[Hornviech]

This is from Master Rules of BT
Jump Jets
Players may add jump jets to any OmniMech, whether or not
its standard configuration has jump jets. Jump jets may only be
mounted in pods on the left and right legs, the left and right torsos,
and the center torso, and these locations must have sufficient
critical slots open.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Hornviech, on 15 January 2015 - 07:28 AM, said:

This is from Master Rules of BT
Jump Jets
Players may add jump jets to any OmniMech, whether or not
its standard configuration has jump jets. Jump jets may only be
mounted in pods on the left and right legs, the left and right torsos,
and the center torso, and these locations must have sufficient
critical slots open.

But can they also be removed? I suppose if you can add them, you can can them to....cuz, really....it wouldnt make sense if you couldnt. It already doesnt....

[TheCerberus]

(slightly late to the thread, but I stopped playing for a while, I'm going to stick to responding to the OP)

Another vote against making IS and clan balanced,
Dissapointed that clans are just going to be nerfed to be on par with IS.
Dissapointed that you can mix IS and clan mechs in a single team.
Dissapointed that clans wont be fighting in units of 10 (aka a Binary).
You could also have 10 v 10 clan on clan fights.

• UI redesign of the pre-game, scoreboard and end of round screen.
  
• New rules for tie breakers surrounding the uneven team sizes
  
• Significant re-factoring of the match maker to develop team sizes that don’t match.
  
• 'Mech chassis tonnage balancing will no longer work.
  
• Elo will no longer work with 10 vs 12 team calculations.

I don't see any of these as being difficult challenges. It would just take a few hours, tops, to do some new calculations. If anything the time you're spending nerfing the clans is taking a lot more time than the time spent just allowing teams of 10.
Also keep in mind that the "for the foreseeable future" approach means that if you decide to bring 10-strong teams of clanners in later, you're going to have to undo all of the nerfs. So really you mean "it's never going to happen".

About: “Yes your IS mech’s are weaker, but if you put lots of them together you might win”.
So you could just say you made a mistake in writing that, so what? Let's face it, it wont be your first. You've dissapointed plenty of players on other points, and this is another of those dissapointments. Admitting you made a mistake and fixing it is better than all the little annoying nerfs that take away the significance of a clan 'mech and the different styles of play they might encourage, and *still* dissapointing people.

I've got no problem with playing a weaker mech but having numerical advantage. Also anyone who chooses to play a heavy knows they're going to be outgunned by an assault. There are *massive* amounts of popular games that have this element - mostly RTS games, but isn't MWO supposed to be a strategy game as well as FPS?

[Threat Doc]

1) So many missed lore opportunities, in both the combat engine and Community Warfare,

2) So many missed PGI-original opportunities from October 2011 until just the Town Hall-before-last,

3) All of the time spent screwing with the unnecessary and ignorant nerfs to Clan Omni's and all of the quirk development could have been shunted, instead, into getting rid of 3/3/3/3, weight-class matching, etc., and making it possible, instead for the game to launch with any number of 'Mechs on both sides by the use of an MWO version of Battle Value,

4) Not fixing real problems with the game, such as when a 35-ton Raven can take a pinpoint alpha, or two, from ANY Heavy or Assault-Class 'Mech, MAYBE turn yellow in one or two places, and then run off like it's nothing. So, hit boxes on Light 'Mechs need some real help. Let's also talk about the fact Lights can have two-thirds of their weight above half their height and still turn on a dime so the little cowards can remain behind Heavy and Assault 'Mechs to knock them down. Oh, and let's not forget how nasty ECM is on the battlefield. These things are so much more importantly broken than anything else in the game, that it's now a missed opportunity, and is causing PGI to hemhorrage players.

I have taken the past week-and-a-half off from playing, though I've more or less kept up with the forums, here, and I've listened to every single Town Hall that's been done, and the answers I continue to hear are disappointing. PGI are now talking about PvE games, AI for tanks, battle armor, infantry, AeroSpace Fighters, etc., but AI 'Mechs are going to take a lot longer. As much as I want to see a Single Player or Small Group experience, I want to see these other things fixed all the more. I have gone back to late-2012 through mid-2013, the last time I took a break, and barely kept pace with MWO, where all of us knew that PGI were going wrong, and ALL of us knew IGP were responsible for it, and I can't help but see that PGI are taking the VERY SAME PATH!!! I have zero withdrawal systems from staying away from MWO this time; that's pretty sad.

Edited by Kay Wolf, 20 January 2015 - 06:30 AM.

[Jacob Penn]

I believe that a 10 vs 12 match-up is more ideal than the current style of 12 vs 12 even with weapon quirks because that's the way the board-game balanced the problem; however, I understand the computer games might not balance as well that way.
How about requiring clans to have 2 filler posts of elemental squads, possibly 1 of whom
is a real life player so that it's not so easy to kill him or her outright and the Matchmaking and other features could still work.
I'm 100% in agreement that a clan torso removal should cause heat and movement problems simply from a simulation point of view, and any balancing effect of that would be great.

[Lily from animove]

LordKnightFandragon, on 15 January 2015 - 04:30 AM, said:

So the Clans get significantly less heat cap but better heat dissipation paired alongside much higher per weapon heat and longer beam times? Umm, lolno? Id vote for the change to a fixed heat cap at 50-60 and 2.0 DHS and 1.4 SHS. No faction should really be "Firin all the laz0rz"...

eith 50 heatcap, the metabuilds alls till fire all the laz0rs. and IS "fire all the laz0rs" is till nto as much dmg as the clanners, so it is partially in balance then.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 January 2015 - 05:49 AM.

[kosmos1214]

Lily from animove, on 23 January 2015 - 05:47 AM, said:

eith 50 heatcap, the metabuilds alls till fire all the laz0rs. and IS "fire all the laz0rs" is till nto as much dmg as the clanners, so it is partially in balance then.

partly in balance and balanced are 2 very diferent things

[pyrocomp]

As an IS light pilot I'd say 'bring original clan mechs back'. Then either balance tech (clan/IS, ECM until redone) or 12 IS vs 10 Clans, then balance this (should also help CW).

@Kay Wolf: been one-shotted in the raven more than once (streak-pult as a reference), keep trying.
PS: in case of buffing WHK with PPC quirks please supply lights with lightning rods.

[Threat Doc]

pyrocomp, on 24 January 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

@Kay Wolf: been one-shotted in the raven more than once (streak-pult as a reference), keep trying.

So what? I've been one-shotted in every single 'Mech I own, even my BattleMaster's. I'm talking about actually walking up behind an un-suspecting Light 'Mech, hit it once with an Alpha, the damn thing doesn't even move, and then hitting it with a second Alpha before it turns yellow, and then the pilot realizes, "Oh, hey, I'm being shot from near point-blank range, so I'm taking damage, I should move." It's happened more than a few times before my eyes, various sizes and classes of 'Mechs. Light hit boxes are so broken, it doesn't take movement to off-set any damage that comes into them.

Keep trying.

[pyrocomp]

@Kay Wolf. Tried that, didn't like. Die too fast, bad habit to stand still in a raven (raving rabid ravens are much more fun). Yet I admit, lights some times miraculously ignore damage. But, 10 armor at the back is standard for most mechs save assaults. It's just isn't that proportional to rhe mass. So killing lights from behind should not be much easier than most other mechs. Compare armoring ratios front/back on your mechs. Lights devote relatively more armor to the back. And I don't think that oneshotting should exist in this game altogether. But that's my opinion.