446 replies to this topic

[Lala Satalin Deviluke]

Bigbacon, on 15 September 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

this is the worst solution...you can't make it up of all the elite competitive players. They will only do what is right for competition level play and not the rest of the game's players. We are already seeing that now.

So... than Council idea is born-dead idea. Better than employ a new wise community manager.

[AdamBaines]

The Great Unwashed, on 14 September 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

Never a dull moment in the MWO fan base.

This. +INFINITY!

[Mawai]

N0MAD, on 15 September 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

I take it to mean a Focus group Thread,Thread being the operative word with focus group meaning interested parties, but ohh well.
Anything that excludes the the whole of the population, isnt a good idea.

Lol ... the most that can be done is to let as much of the population as possible know that there is something of interest going on and ask if they want to express an opinion. This can be accomplished most readily by an advertisement on the login screen ... since that is about the only communication currently available that is at least visible to everyone who starts the game.

Beyond that ... there is absolutely no way to force folks to get involved or express an opinion ... so by definition EVERY possible option will exclude some of the players since they don't notice or choose not to be involved ... EVERY democracy has the issue of incomplete participation ... and this isn't even a democracy ... we are talking about an advisory/feedback council ... and to be honest, for the most part I trust the folks who are so keen on the game, so involved with the franchise and IP, that they will more often than not offer useful feedback for a better game ... that PGI can choose to act on or not.

I can't see any downside to the initiative ... but all you seem to be able to express is a concern that EVERYONE not be able to contribute ... which can't happen anyway. Folks have to choose to contribute.

If you are so concerned about representation ... then contribute your time and represent the hidden masses of the game ...

[Joseph Mallan]

Lala Satalin Deviluke, on 15 September 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

So... than Council idea is born-dead idea. Better than employ a new wise community manager.

When did they have a Wise one before?


I'm Sorry. I just could not resist that wide open shot!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 September 2014 - 06:43 AM.

[Lala Satalin Deviluke]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 September 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

When did they have a Wise one before?


I'm Sorry. I just could not resist that wide open shot!

Josh... did we players, voters, etc., saw a Council Code of Condut yet? Nope. So what we talking about?
These elections at this, todays point is against our human and customers rights.

Edited by Lala Satalin Deviluke, 15 September 2014 - 06:51 AM.

[UnsafePilot]

Lala Satalin Deviluke, on 15 September 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

These elections at this, todays point is against our human and customers rights.

And the anti-council complaints jump smoothly over the shark...

[Why Run]

I respectfully disagree. I vote to move forward. It gives us an opportunity to try to effect change, even if it proves difficult. This outright opposition to change is what got us in this mess, and now we can see if we can dig on out of it. Why would you just refuse from the onset, before seeing any results?

[NextGame]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 September 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

His suggestion is to form a Focus group. Or PGI selecting a small group of players and discuss how they feel about X,Y,Z. That isn't a thread on the forum. It's an Email or PM request.

Sorry for any misunderstandings, I actually mean a forum thread, as per comstar focus group forum area.

To be operated like an elite dangerous decision decision thread.

i.e. : http://forums.fronti...isplay.php?f=36

In tribes ascend we had a special player input place, a private channel on irc, and occasional teamspeak discussions with the developers. It just became an ego circus, not worth the hassle. Same would happen here.

so to clarify.

For a new feature, post a thread in comstar focus group about it, so that everyone can put in feedback. Lock after 7 days for feedback. Address feedback, and revise proposal. Revised proposal is what gets developed. You could even do a 2nd pass if you wanted, but not too many of these otherwise nothing would ever get done. If you want to put a forum area behind a paywall, this would also be what you would put behind it.

Edited by NextGame, 15 September 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[N0MAD]

NextGame, on 15 September 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

Sorry for any misunderstandings, I actually mean a forum thread, as per comstar focus group forum area.

To be operated like an elite dangerous decision decision thread.

i.e. : http://forums.fronti...isplay.php?f=36

In tribes ascend we had a special player input place, a private channel on irc, and occasional teamspeak discussions with the developers. It just became an ego circus, not worth the hassle. Same would happen here.

so to clarify.

For a new feature, post a thread in comstar focus group about it, so that everyone can put in feedback. Lock after 7 days for feedback. Address feedback, and revise proposal. Revised proposal is what gets developed. You could even do a 2nd pass if you wanted, but not too many of these otherwise nothing would ever get done. If you want to put a forum area behind a paywall, this would also be what you would put behind it.

This sounds somewhat familiar.
A simple clean solution.
Much to smart tho...

[1453 R]

*Sigh*

N0mad, you're being hyperbolic. Simply because we have a Task Force Fish Bait doesn't mean that TFFB suddenly gains Ultimate Supreme Authority Over MWO Now And Forever. It can't, as it only has what power is granted to it between two bodies - Piranha and the playerbase.

TFFB has only what advisory power Piranha chooses to indulge it with. Piranha is under no obligations whatsoever to act upon anything TFFB comes up with. The only obligation they have, and it's an obligation they took upon themselves, is to listen to what TFFB comes up with and consider it. If, after due consideration and discussion, they can't/won't do it? Then hurray, we had a meaningful conversation with Piranha and we now know why something is what it is.

Furthermore, if TFFB loses the (overall) consent of the people, if the forums start erupting into constant trollthreads denouncing it and demanding its removal, guess what? Piranha will remove it. TFFB's existence doesn't mean they're going to never look at a forum post again, what it simply means is that Piranha gets a demi-semi-official mechanism for distilling popular forum opinion into effective and actionable form. The general forums are still where one goes to keep their finger on the pulse of the game, and Piranha would be incredibly foolish to simply discard that.

Nothing bad is going to happen if we try this and see where Task Force Fish Bait goes. And as for involving The Entirety Of MWO's Playerbase...every single match I've played since this went up, I've opened with "If you haven't, check out Russ' ECM Challenge in the MWO Forums. This is our chance to change things, guys." I've been doing my part to spread the word. As has been pointed out to you, over and over again...you can only work with people who're willing to work with you. Should we dismantle the American government because less than half of the total population of the country can still be assed to vote, or do we simply try and spread the word, let as many people as we can know what's going on and where to find it, and then take what community participation we can get?

Because in my humble opinion, some community participation is still light years better than none, which is what we have right now.

[Horusv2]

N0MAD, on 15 September 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

This sounds somewhat familiar.
A simple clean solution.
Much to smart tho...

the problem is: somebody on the developers side has to read all this and filter the important parts to the developers.
In my Book thats the job of the community managers. But PGI does not have the personal quantity for this task.
I think its ridicilous to operate a "MMO" with so little customer support. The community manager is in personal charge of addressing tickets like teamkills and all the other little complaints they may get over the span of a day. And he wastes time with stalking peoples behaviour in other Forums.

It all comes down to: PGI doesnt do its job properly. I can be wrong but it does not look like they will expand their community manaing facilities in the near future. I think its solely a money problem. How can anybody think they can muster the ressources to address anything such a council will propose when they have such a giant Backlog of features at the moment and are not willing to expand their personnnel.
If you want to be the freelance lapdog who does the job of a community manager pls go on. But never dare to say you represent the community in a significant way with this lame ass forumgoers only approach.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Like I said in another post...

It's easy for some people to complain and balk at a potential solution, yet if they were asked to help out themselves, they would want no part of it (too hard and time consuming).

Let the people who want to help work out a solution...you know...work out a solution. Maybe it won't be perfect or cater to everyone, but multiple heads working together should come up with a good compromise.

Give it a chance in any case before complaining and throwing a huge fit.

[Lala Satalin Deviluke]

1453 R, on 15 September 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

*Sigh*

N0mad, you're being hyperbolic. Simply because we have a Task Force Fish Bait doesn't mean that TFFB suddenly gains Ultimate Supreme Authority Over MWO Now And Forever. It can't, as it only has what power is granted to it between two bodies - Piranha and the playerbase.

TFFB has only what advisory power Piranha chooses to indulge it with. Piranha is under no obligations whatsoever to act upon anything TFFB comes up with. The only obligation they have, and it's an obligation they took upon themselves, is to listen to what TFFB comes up with and consider it. If, after due consideration and discussion, they can't/won't do it? Then hurray, we had a meaningful conversation with Piranha and we now know why something is what it is.

Furthermore, if TFFB loses the (overall) consent of the people, if the forums start erupting into constant trollthreads denouncing it and demanding its removal, guess what? Piranha will remove it. TFFB's existence doesn't mean they're going to never look at a forum post again, what it simply means is that Piranha gets a demi-semi-official mechanism for distilling popular forum opinion into effective and actionable form. The general forums are still where one goes to keep their finger on the pulse of the game, and Piranha would be incredibly foolish to simply discard that.

Nothing bad is going to happen if we try this and see where Task Force Fish Bait goes. And as for involving The Entirety Of MWO's Playerbase...every single match I've played since this went up, I've opened with "If you haven't, check out Russ' ECM Challenge in the MWO Forums. This is our chance to change things, guys." I've been doing my part to spread the word. As has been pointed out to you, over and over again...you can only work with people who're willing to work with you. Should we dismantle the American government because less than half of the total population of the country can still be assed to vote, or do we simply try and spread the word, let as many people as we can know what's going on and where to find it, and then take what community participation we can get?

Because in my humble opinion, some community participation is still light years better than none, which is what we have right now.

Actually... that TFFB already lost people trust, not even reaching the service. Dat Council is just so O7 that plyaers start to give 0 fk, about that.
Besides there is more repeated post "for" than "against". Which means only that BIGGER, yeah... the biggest part of a MWO Community is AGAINST.
People, whatever fraction they play for just want fair play and continue to play MWO... and definitely they don't wanted to be thrown in a cauldron full of forum politics.

[Lala Satalin Deviluke]

Horusv2, on 15 September 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

the problem is: somebody on the developers side has to read all this and filter the important parts to the developers.

Well this is more than just easy... just read the General Titles:

• - LURMs R BAD.
  
• - ECM R BAD.
  
• - CLANs R BAD.
  
• - IS LAZORS R BAD.
  
• - BUFF CLAN LAZORS.
  
• - BUFF IS LAZORS.
  
• - DESYNC R BAD.
  
• - ETC.

So? What we got? Aha... problem with CL and IS lasers, ECM not blanced, fix LURMs, and desync.
4 problems in total. Is this are so hard? If it does, fire the PGI programming manager, support manager, community manager. Employ the guy who can read and understand at least how overaly game works. Problem solved. So? What for we need Elite Bunch of Forum FanGirls called a Council of Whatever?

[Joseph Mallan]

NextGame, on 15 September 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

Sorry for any misunderstandings, I actually mean a forum thread, as per comstar focus group forum area.

To be operated like an elite dangerous decision decision thread.

i.e. : http://forums.fronti...isplay.php?f=36

In tribes ascend we had a special player input place, a private channel on irc, and occasional teamspeak discussions with the developers. It just became an ego circus, not worth the hassle. Same would happen here.

so to clarify.

For a new feature, post a thread in comstar focus group about it, so that everyone can put in feedback. Lock after 7 days for feedback. Address feedback, and revise proposal. Revised proposal is what gets developed. You could even do a 2nd pass if you wanted, but not too many of these otherwise nothing would ever get done. If you want to put a forum area behind a paywall, this would also be what you would put behind it.

We do this already though. We post Opinion posts and brandy ideas back and forth already. Without knowledge of DEVs reading or not.

I am not against your idea but I have seen how EI works and taking your Community Poll and adding it to a committee is how EI works. The EI Committee cant do anything without the workers ideas on how/what needs fixed.

But if some of you want to ignore 30 years of success, go ahead.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 September 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Unikron, on 14 September 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Perfectly valid political tactic bro... Do u even politics?

Go L2P lurms

*sniff* smells kinda like Vassago. With a hint of Roadbeer.

[stjobe]

Lala Satalin Deviluke, on 15 September 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

What for we need Elite Bunch of Forum FanGirls called a Council of Whatever?

Because PGI asked us to.

It really is that simple. Russ asked us to provide them with a single community proposal on how to fix ECM, and they will try to make it happen.

If you want to be a part of that - and please be, we need all kinds of opinions - I suggest you stop trying to derail the formation of the group whose sole purpose is to take our - mine, yours, everyone else's - ideas about ECM and present them to PGI.

The council has zero say in what changes PGI does.

The council has zero extra say in what the final proposal is.

All the council can do is sort through and collate proposals from the community - you - and put them into a comprehensible form and then up for voting.

When there's only one proposal left, that gets presented to PGI and hopefully it's good enough to be implemented in game.

[Lala Satalin Deviluke]

stjobe, on 15 September 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

Because PGI asked us to.

And if Russ/PGI ask you to jump off the 10th floor will'ya do it just because he/PGI said?

stjobe, on 15 September 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

The council has zero say in what changes PGI does.

The council has zero extra say in what the final proposal is.

EXPLAIN, WHY THAN WE SOULD HAVE THE COUNCIL?

Edited by Lala Satalin Deviluke, 15 September 2014 - 08:43 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lala Satalin Deviluke, on 15 September 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

And uf Russ ask you to jump off the 10th floor will'ya do it just because hi said?

OK I am old AND a parent. But I would not have pulled out that moronic Parenting Gem!

The Boss asked for our help, and in a grand show of Spite, you want to give him the big double middles! Mature indeed.

[1453 R]

...if THAT'S the sort of thing that people are going to bring up as a 'legitimate' argument, then there's no real point in continuing the discussion, I suppose.

Good luck, Joe. My brain is bleeding a little, I need to tap out for a while.