353 replies to this topic

[Moomtazz]

Lyoto Machida, on 18 September 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

Exactly...that's why you're gonna produce a screenshot of your 50%+ LRM accuracy, right?

Trolls gonna troll.

LOL what does accuracy with LRMs mean? We all know they have lower accuracy than direct fire weapons because people fire them indirectly and they can lose lock, hit walls, etc. They take no skill to use. You don't have to use motor skills to aim them and hit a target. If a person used them in Line of Sight firing only for the majority of the time then yes their accuracy would be much higher than the norm (normal being 25-35% I'd guess).

[ramjb]

54 minutes of gametime to unlock all the basics on a mech. 15200 xp points in 54 minutes of gametime. In excess of 2 million c-bills in 54 minutes of gametime. 54 minutes of gameplay averaging 566 damage per game (when one out of 9 games was a 76 damage botched one which severely skewed the statistics, take that one out and the average goes up by almost a hundred) and more than 1650xp per game (same thing applies). 54 minutes to do that. In a mech that is not just not mastered, nor just not elited, but that it was being used to unlock basics. Not even 55 minutes. 54.

Using LRMs only. Accomplished by aiming at a red rectangle and clicking my mouse, in a highlander 733, in a run aimed at specifically testing and proving myself wether LRMs are really OP or not. And I even surprised myself, didn't expect the run from no basic skills to all basic skills unlocked to be so short, so profitable and so dominating.

You can argue for months if you want about the technicalities, about wether the SSRM mechanics work this or that way, wether the AC10 does this or that, the sex of angels, the foolishness of donkeys, or whatever you want to talk about to distract attention ,deny the undeniable, or hide the evidence. You can't deny the stats, and the stats say that even a 4 year old using a mech with that weapon system can rake multi-hundred damage scores and even peek into the plus thousand with as much skill involved as it takes to watch TV putting a sheep face.

That a weapon system allows such results out of so little effort and involved skill, is just unacceptable, beyond excuse, and beyond belief. And whoever denies it has several problems that I'm not going to bother even commenting on.

Edited by ramjb, 18 September 2014 - 01:40 PM.

[Coolant]

It's not the screen shake or the damage, it's the fire and smoke. You cannot see anything when you are being hit with tons of missiles. And someone mentioned turning down effects to low....i've never had them higher then low, it's still an issue....

[ArchSight]

Joshua Obrien, on 17 September 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

I thought the screen shake was my only issue since returning to play MWO after a hiatus. I was terribly terribly wrong.
Alittle insight into this beautiful screen shot.. I got locked onto while I was up on a cliff and started getting hit by lrms. I immediately backed off the cliff to receive cover from the hills and valley. This did not work, by the time I hit the ground I had already been hit by one wave of lrms. But they kept coming and coming and coming. No spotter was around me since I was in a small crevasse where a turn starts and no one above me looking down. I don't believe I got narced because everyone was so far away I would have seen it coming, but I could be wrong.

My issue is the arc at which these things fly, and the ability they seem to posses of locking onto your CT and making love to it until you're no longer standing. I thought cover was supposed to help with this things. If this was an isolated incident I would shrug it off as bad luck, but it's not. These things fly over cover that it shouldn't on most maps(I.E forest colony behind one of the spire mountains past the broken ship. They flew up and over the verticle mountain that was at least 4x the height of my mech and continued to desecrate me.

The damage they do is fine. If I'm out in the open I deserve to get molested by Lrms. That's my fault entirely. But behind cover that is quite a bit taller than me? There is no excuse.

The picture below is what happened. After torso twisting to spread out the damage it still didn't help much since my CT got eaten away.

UAV's spots over cover, Narc spots over cover, Target decay spots over cover unless countered by target deprivation to 1 sec instead of 3. Bunch of new do hicky's you need to know about in MWO to avoid the information warfare part of the game. One's done LRMs are not that bad at all.

[Mercules]

ramjb, on 18 September 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

That a weapon system allows such results out of so little effort and involved skill, is just unacceptable, beyond excuse, and beyond belief. And whoever denies it has several problems that I'm not going to bother even commenting on.

I know, the people you were targeting had no skill whatsoever or you wouldn't have done nearly that much damage.

[Mercules]

Moomtazz, on 18 September 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

You don't have to use motor skills to aim them and hit a target.

So "motor skills" are the only skills that count? Knowing the map so you know what firing angles your LRMs will pass down, accessing what locks are more likely to result in hits, maneuvering so that you don't get caught int he brawl but are close enough to the front line that your missile flight times will be short enough to actually hit anything.... these are not skills that matter.

See you only need some motor skills for the LRMs while you need more esoteric skills to make them work well. With Direct fire weapons it is the other way around, motor skills account for more than positioning while positioning is still important.

[terrycloth]

It's actually kind of difficult, motor-skill wise, to keep lock while moving, even on a stationary target. The solution is to stop while firing, and I find myself doing that a lot, and it's not *quite* as terrible of an idea as stopping while firing direct-fire weapons (which also makes aiming easier). It's still bad, though.

As for LRMs always magically hitting your center torso... I've had that happen to me occasionally (not very often), but I'm not sure how to get that to happen to other people. Artemis, tag, narc, chain-firing 5s, they splatter all over. The most ridiculous case being where I took all the armor off of a target (front and back, except the head) before finally killing them with LRMs (I think it was by destroying both legs). They call it 'sandblasting' for a reason.

[Moomtazz]

Yes when I speak of skill I mean actual physical skill.

How about this scenario: 3 mechs from Team A and 3 from Team B are involved in a brawl. These brawling mechs will ideally begin to focus fire on one enemy. The way they do this is to observe which enemy his two allies are firing at and to switch his focus also onto that mech. If they do not focus fire they will take more damage than they should and are in danger of losing. If their shots do not hit the components of the enemy mech that is focused it will take longer to kill it.

Behind a hill you have 3 LRM mechs from Team B. They hit R to acquire a target. They mash the fire button. If they have multiple locks available, they even have arrows to show which mech is already getting rained on by LRMs, so they can switch to that target as well. Easy mode.

[Gerhardt Jorgensson]

Moomtazz, on 18 September 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

Yes when I speak of skill I mean actual physical skill.

I do not know about you, but when I play this game there is very little physical exertion on my part.

What it sounds like to me is you do not appreciate the tenants of fire support -- as an infantryman who has been in combat, there was nothing better than knowing that some "no skill" mortar crew or kiowa gunship was in the area to back me up.

We took pride in our job to close with and destroy the enemy, and we even made fun of the mortar guys and called them pogs in jest, but we all knew that if we needed them they were there. Appreciate your fire support.

Edited by Gerhardt Jorgensson, 18 September 2014 - 03:23 PM.

[Moomtazz]

terrycloth, on 18 September 2014 - 03:15 PM, said:

It's actually kind of difficult, motor-skill wise, to keep lock while moving, even on a stationary target.

This is what I'm talking about! Look to be honest I understand people playing with lag or just not used to FPS games. I've played on a dodgy sat connection before, and when I did I found that a CPT-A1 with 2 LRM15 and 4 SSRMs was a great mech when I was laggy).

I'm glad the game has options for all players. The problem with LRMs is that the targeting allows for multiple mechs to focus fire with an absolute minimum amount of effort needed and while behind cover. If they made LRMs direct fire only or allowed only one mech to fire on a single target indirectly then I think my opposition to LRMs would be over.

Gerhardt Jorgensson, on 18 September 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:

I do not know about you, but when I play this game there is very little physical exertion on my part.

What it sounds like to me is you do not appreciate the tenants of fire support -- as an infantryman who has been in combat, there was nothing better than knowing that some "no skill" mortar crew or kiowa gunship was in the area to back me up.

We took pride in our job to close with and destroy the enemy, and we even made fun of the mortar guys and called them pogs in jest, but we all knew that if we needed them they were there. Appreciate your fire support.

Big difference between a game and war, don't you think?

Edited by Moomtazz, 18 September 2014 - 03:26 PM.

[terrycloth]

It's not hard to focus-fire in a brawl, because you can see which enemies your friends are firing at. There are BRIGHT GLOWING LINES pointing at them.

[Gerhardt Jorgensson]

No, this is a simulation of warfare in the 31st century, and in that universe, fire support assets exist as a role. Players using missiles do not play the game the way you do, and you are bitter about it -- probably because you make tactical errors and die to them.

Get over it, they have been a part of this game for longer than most of the players have been alive, myself included.

Edited by Gerhardt Jorgensson, 18 September 2014 - 03:27 PM.

[Moomtazz]

terrycloth, on 18 September 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

It's not hard to focus-fire in a brawl, because you can see which enemies your friends are firing at. There are BRIGHT GLOWING LINES pointing at them.

You'd be surprised how many people don't do it.

Gerhardt Jorgensson, on 18 September 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

No, this is a simulation of warfare in the 31st century, and in that universe, fire support assets exist as a role. Players using missiles do not play the game the way you do, and you are bitter about it -- probably because you make tactical errors and die to them.

Get over it, they have been a part of this game for longer than most of the players have been alive, myself included.

I played TT back in the day and LRMs were not like they are in MWO. Indirect fire was not their strong suit. They were effective supplemental weapons, such as on a T-Bolt. They were used in Line of Sight firing.

[Gerhardt Jorgensson]

Moomtazz, on 18 September 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

I played TT back in the day and LRMs were not like they are in MWO. Indirect fire was not their strong suit. They were effective supplemental weapons, such as on a T-Bolt. They were used in Line of Sight firing.

There are plenty of dedicated fire support 'Mechs in Battletech; Archer, Longbow, Catapult, Whitworth, Dervish, Salamander -- plenty of other ones as well.

Nobody uses anything as supplemental weaponry in this game -- customization leads everyone to use whatever weapon is most effective in gigantic masses. If you want to play a game mode which does not have boats of any kind (besides perhaps the Awesome), look into dropping with the Stock 'Mech crowd.

Otherwise, expect players to use whatever weapons are going to net them the most damage that suits how they want to play -- missile support boats included.

[Koniving]

DocBach, on 17 September 2014 - 02:37 AM, said:

The only problem I have with lrms is the fact that when hundreds of them are exploding it kills my fps, even with 4790k and two gtx780s.

If you are being hit behind cover the enemy either has Artemis, you are narc'd or tagged or a combination of any of them -- they improve missile tracking around obstacles.

This is why I want a serious reduction in firing rate, offset by a reasonable increase in their damage. In turn for the bonus damage, a reduction to 120 missiles.

With the original rate of the damage increase to reload increase, 120 missiles would really have been worth 270 of the old missiles, but obviously it's a much higher risk for each ton of ammo for whenever you do miss, especially with high launcher counts. The end result, of course, was to make single and double launcher builds much more viable and to encourage 'other' weapons due to long reload times.

Sadly I grew tired of trying to pitch it. And there were fears that the damage increase would be too high (even at 1.5x the current damage per missile to 1.5x more reload time compared to the original 2x damage to 2x reload).

Edited by Koniving, 18 September 2014 - 05:00 PM.

[Wolfways]

Moomtazz, on 18 September 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

Big difference between a game and war, don't you think?

Yeah that's true. In war most people aren't stupid enough to stand in the middle of an artillery barrage...and those that are aren't around later to whine on the forums about being killed by a weak weapon.

[Moomtazz]

Wolfways, on 18 September 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

Yeah that's true. In war most people aren't stupid enough to stand in the middle of an artillery barrage...and those that are aren't around later to whine on the forums about being killed by a weak weapon.

LOL I don't die to LRMs.

[Astrocanis]

Joshua Obrien, on 17 September 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

I thought the screen shake was my only issue since returning to play MWO after a hiatus. I was terribly terribly wrong.
Alittle insight into this beautiful screen shot.. I got locked onto while I was up on a cliff and started getting hit by lrms. I immediately backed off the cliff to receive cover from the hills and valley. This did not work, by the time I hit the ground I had already been hit by one wave of lrms. But they kept coming and coming and coming. No spotter was around me since I was in a small crevasse where a turn starts and no one above me looking down. I don't believe I got narced because everyone was so far away I would have seen it coming, but I could be wrong.

My issue is the arc at which these things fly, and the ability they seem to posses of locking onto your CT and making love to it until you're no longer standing. I thought cover was supposed to help with this things. If this was an isolated incident I would shrug it off as bad luck, but it's not. These things fly over cover that it shouldn't on most maps(I.E forest colony behind one of the spire mountains past the broken ship. They flew up and over the verticle mountain that was at least 4x the height of my mech and continued to desecrate me.

The damage they do is fine. If I'm out in the open I deserve to get molested by Lrms. That's my fault entirely. But behind cover that is quite a bit taller than me? There is no excuse.

The picture below is what happened. After torso twisting to spread out the damage it still didn't help much since my CT got eaten away.

Joseph Mallan, on 17 September 2014 - 04:43 AM, said:

I decided it wasn't fair to test an LRM10 against an AC20.

AC10 stats
Time 02:58:12(10,692 seconds)
Damage 4,041
DPS over 3 hours 0.377

Over 2 times the DpS as a LRM10.

It's going to get a lot better once/if PGI listens to the playerbase and nerfs the daylights out of ECM. Better indeed.

[Wolfways]

Moomtazz, on 18 September 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

LOL I don't die to LRMs.

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you. It was just a tongue-in-cheek response to your post.

But yes war is different from a (war)game in that there is no real death. Otherwise I'm not sure what your point is by saying a game is not the same as war. Isn't the point of MWO to simulate mech battles?

[Mercules]

Moomtazz, on 18 September 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

I played TT back in the day and LRMs were not like they are in MWO. Indirect fire was not their strong suit. They were effective supplemental weapons, such as on a T-Bolt. They were used in Line of Sight firing.

I played TT back in the day... and still do. They were, and are used for both direct fire and indirect fire. In fact with infantry concealed near a target in some woods I can pretty much take out mechs without them getting a response... and that is with LRM tanks, not even mechs boating LRMs.