353 replies to this topic

[Ovion]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 September 2014 - 05:32 AM, said:

To be fair, I believe you said it a year or so ago as well.

So did I.
As did many others.
Repeatedly.

[ramjb]

The Basilisk, on 19 September 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

Sorry but I realy think those who complain about LRMs beeing too strong never realy played an LRM Boat.

I have, and I went as far as to testing how long it would take me to take a LRMboat Highlander 733 from nothing to full basic skills. Answer was 54 minutes, 9 battles, 1650 xp per game and 566 damage per game. And I wasn't even trying hard. My highest earning/scoring/KD mech is my LRMboat Twolf Prime. So whatever you think, your thoughts are wrong. Many of us have driven LRMboats so we very well know what we're talking about.

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REALY effective LRM boats are quite difficult to play at the moment due to a hundred possible ways of evading or negating LRMs.

erm...how about "no"?.

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-- ECM: without the Help of TAG and/or counter ECM no lock --> no tracking

Bring TAG then. You don't only laugh at ECM but you increase your LOS accuracy by 25%. Stackable with artemis too. If you don't bring a TAG then don't complain about ECM. Stop whoring missiles and bring that TAG along. Or better, don't. Gameplay is already miserable enough wwith the constant lurm rain to have people start using them with a brain.

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-- AntiLRM Mechs like Tripple AMS Kitfox and other dual AMS Mechs with AMS range and rapidfire booster. Even single AMS Mechs can just cuddle together and be totaly fine.

I haven't, but I can , upload several clips of me in my youtube channel showing my triple AMS Kitfox not being able to stop LRM streaks from LRM40 Timberwolf, and even having serious issues shutting down a LRM 30 catapult A1 ripple firing his LRM5s. So this is NOT true.

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-- Radardeprivation: Sure a soft counter but it effectively restricts LRM to LOS

Target retention: pretty much makes RD redundant. And massacres whoever doesn't carry it. You don't use it?. Your fault.

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-- Misslespeed: too slow to track fast moving targets but too fast to get time to relock after loosing lock.

"Too slow to track fast moving targets". Tell that to the Ravens I was legging yesterday during my highlander 733 run. Of course I was using TAG, but even without using TAG I have no problems scoring hits on 150kph mechs. Most will fail. Some will connect. You don't need many hits to shoot a light down.

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So if you get obliterated repeatedly by LRMs you either fail to stick with your group or you fail to pay attention, fail to carry AMS, fail to look for usable cower and so on ....

Says the guy who can't bring a TAG to the battlefield and ends up complaining about ECM.

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IS LRMs are too slow, too weak in direkt fire and too bothersome due to their minimum range.
Clan LRMs feel more like ACs with Tracking ability.

Yeah, right. That's why there are so many IS LRM boats in the battlefield. Because they are very weak. i mean, it's a well known fact than when a weapon is too sloww, too weak and too bothersome due to their minimum range, everyone suddenly starts boating them, right?.


You didn't state a single truth in your message...and it was a pretty long one. Even for an internet forum, that's a pretty difficult challenge. Congrats, you made it.

Edited by ramjb, 19 September 2014 - 05:42 AM.

[Mercules]

To be fair, except for a few months there, most of us have been saying something along the line of LRMs not being overtly OP since they first let Founders log into the servers.

[Mercules]

ramjb, on 19 September 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

You didn't state a single truth in your message...and it was a pretty long one. Even for an internet forum, that's a pretty difficult challenge. Congrats, you made it.

Here is a truth for you. The LRM's power is directly inverse the intelligence of it's target. So during your leveling you most likely were PuGging against nosepickers who complain about LRMs because they don't understand that when it is raining you open an umbrella or get out of the rain instead of standing there getting wet.

[Karl Streiger]

Don't want to juge if LRM are in general OP (imo indirect LRM fire is to powerful - should be less effective) - but i can say for sure (subjective) when i want to grind or level a unit - to deal cheap damage or else i always use LRMs.
Could be possible that i can't use them - because the only target i see is a DDC (but i can still put my LRM into him - without lock on)
Most of my missiles hit the ground and kill innocent ground hogs - but those that connect deal adequate damage (enough for me)

Its also a good weapon to deal damage while thinking what to do next (for example - i sit somewhere in my AS7-D and spend both clips of LRM 20 while looking how things went on - when i had an idea i wade into battle

So i think it would be nice if it need more expertise to use LRMs. Think about clans -often i have some Clan LRMs on board - not because i want to use them primary - but there was some room and hps left after i did add my primary weapons.
And 2.5 - 4.5t with maybe 100 dmg is a good trade off. Mainly because i don't need a LOS and can fire at any target - and if they don't connect - i don't care.

But LRMs for sure are not a thinking mans shooter weapons.

[The Basilisk]

@ramjb:

Hmm, I don't see many dedicated LRM boats... maybe one or two in ten matches.
I even thought they where next to extinct.

Maybe its a PuG issue ?

Or you are playing in a ELO range that is so misserably low, many people don't know how to use non tracking weapons and don't know how to avoid target assistance like NARC and TAG.
What ever you say, there has to be someone to TAG or NARC you.
If he can TAG you, you can GAUSS him.
If an LRM boat kills you with indirect fire someone has to deliver that target data.
So wtf just kill him.
Its as simple as that.

You got either a very biased perception or you are just trolling around because you can't stand playing a team based game where there is the possibility to get beaten without possibility of retaliation.
And just blubbering accusations doesn't change facts.
Sure there is a counter to any thing in MWO.
Sure an effin single Kitfox can't block the LRM spam of an whole enemy team.
But hes a huge addition to the teams overall lrm defence and turns the still impacting lrm dmg down to negligible when combined with the ams of the rest of the team.
You are solely argumenting from a singleplayer perspective.

Here is new word for you: TEAM

Something to remember: There is an i in every TEAM hidden in the A hole

Edited by The Basilisk, 19 September 2014 - 06:04 AM.

[Wolfways]

ramjb, on 19 September 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

Maybe because being a good player doesn't forcibly mean being totally blinfolded to an obvious reality. That you don't see it or don't agree with it doesn't mean isn't real.

That makes no sense. If they are OP how could i not notice? Why aren't i dieing constantly to LRM's, or even taking much damage from them?

[Wolfways]

ramjb, on 19 September 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

I have, and I went as far as to testing how long it would take me to take a LRMboat Highlander 733 from nothing to full basic skills. Answer was 54 minutes, 9 battles, 1650 xp per game and 566 damage per game. And I wasn't even trying hard. My highest earning/scoring/KD mech is my LRMboat Twolf Prime. So whatever you think, your thoughts are wrong. Many of us have driven LRMboats so we very well know what we're talking about.




erm...how about "no"?.



Bring TAG then. You don't only laugh at ECM but you increase your LOS accuracy by 25%. Stackable with artemis too. If you don't bring a TAG then don't complain about ECM. Stop whoring missiles and bring that TAG along. Or better, don't. Gameplay is already miserable enough wwith the constant lurm rain to have people start using them with a brain.



I haven't, but I can , upload several clips of me in my youtube channel showing my triple AMS Kitfox not being able to stop LRM streaks from LRM40 Timberwolf, and even having serious issues shutting down a LRM 30 catapult A1 ripple firing his LRM5s. So this is NOT true.



Target retention: pretty much makes RD redundant. And massacres whoever doesn't carry it. You don't use it?. Your fault.



"Too slow to track fast moving targets". Tell that to the Ravens I was legging yesterday during my highlander 733 run. Of course I was using TAG, but even without using TAG I have no problems scoring hits on 150kph mechs. Most will fail. Some will connect. You don't need many hits to shoot a light down.



Says the guy who can't bring a TAG to the battlefield and ends up complaining about ECM.



Yeah, right. That's why there are so many IS LRM boats in the battlefield. Because they are very weak. i mean, it's a well known fact than when a weapon is too sloww, too weak and too bothersome due to their minimum range, everyone suddenly starts boating them, right?.


You didn't state a single truth in your message...and it was a pretty long one. Even for an internet forum, that's a pretty difficult challenge. Congrats, you made it.

Congratulations. You now know how easy it is to kill low ELO players.

Mercules, on 19 September 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

To be fair, except for a few months there, most of us have been saying something along the line of LRMs not being overtly OP since they first let Founders log into the servers.

A few months? I thought it was just the two days when we got Artemis and missiles dropped vertically. At least imo that's the only time they've been OP...and even then I'm not sure. I mean, indirect-fire should "drop" on the target right?

[Blacke]

I Zeratul I, on 17 September 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

.

It says you died from rageagainstthedyingofthelight.

I have seen him in game, before.

He runs a LRM boat that is a LRM80 or a LRM100. Or more.

I don't remember exactly how many LRM's his boat fires. But, it fires a lot.

It can destroy a mech with a few barrages.

If he locks onto you and has a clear shot, the damage will be significant.

Considering Rage is a good friend and in my unit I can tell you that his missile mechs have between 30 and 60 LRMS. However when we play 5 to 10 mans we generally group 2 to 4 LRM mechs together.

[Lynx7725]

Blacke, on 19 September 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Considering Rage is a good friend and in my unit I can tell you that his missile mechs have between 30 and 60 LRMS. However when we play 5 to 10 mans we generally group 2 to 4 LRM mechs together.

Sounds normal. Please convey my regards for a job well done.

[Moomtazz]

The Basilisk, on 19 September 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

Or you are playing in a ELO range that is so misserably low, many people don't know how to use non tracking weapons and don't know how to avoid target assistance like NARC and TAG.
What ever you say, there has to be someone to TAG or NARC you.
If he can TAG you, you can GAUSS him.
If an LRM boat kills you with indirect fire someone has to deliver that target data.
So wtf just kill him.
Its as simple as that.

This is funny. You're spinning this like Fox news. Calling this guy a noob for complaining about LRMs, when the reality is LRM boating requires no skill.

[Joseph Mallan]

Moomtazz, on 19 September 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

This is funny. You're spinning this like Fox news. Calling this guy a noob for complaining about LRMs, when the reality is LRM boating requires no skill.

Sorry but neither does point an click LoS weapons. Its just a matter of when you drag, before or after you click.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

lol LRMs, so many bad players in this game.

[ramjb]

Moomtazz, on 19 September 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

This is funny. You're spinning this like Fox news. Calling this guy a noob for complaining about LRMs, when the reality is LRM boating requires no skill.

They just don't realize how hypocrital and blindfolded they are, and don't realize the truth behind their folly. For them anyone complaining about LRMs is a noob, but they're just so used to farm in strong groups that they fail to realize that there's a huge part of this community playing solo PUGs - and that a single weapon shouldn't reign a battiefield either in PUG nor in groups. I know this kind of guy. Is the MWO counterpart to the WoT old-timer "arty apologists". Those who thought five top tier arties per game was fine, and for top tier arty to essentially oneshot most things with a single hit was cool. And in that game at least arty required skill to aim and lead targets. Here lurming is self-guided EZmode alltogether.

I have faith however. Things end up being clear, stats end up talking on their own. When in 2/3rds of the solo queue games the top scorer is a lurmer who did nothing but sit behind a hill the whole game, there's something up, and it will call PGI's attention sooner or later. So sooner or later LRMs will be nerfblasted into the oblivion they belong to (no weapon that easy to use should be as effective) and the whole issue will be over. The same way it eventually was over in WoT when the arty was nerfblasted into the support weapon it's supposed to be, and not the killing weapon it was. I expect exactly the same to happen to LRMs here, sooner or later.

The Basilisk, on 19 September 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

@ramjb:

(lots of totally irrelevant stuff)...

You are solely argumenting from a singleplayer perspective.

Which of course needs no balance, needs no attention, and should be let alone while most of this game is played by people queuing in the solo queue.

Here's something for you:

You, and your group queue, are not the center of the universe, and don't define the balance of this game.

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Here is new word for you: TEAM

Heh. This is so funny I'm not going to even answer it. Mostly because if there's someone always willing to take one for the team and die if needed to ensure a win, it's me. But whatever. Keep on dreaming in your own world of fantasy, where everything's fine and lurmboats don't exist.

(FYI, Lurmboats are everywhere. I'm just tired of seeing Summoners with nothing but LRMs, Griffins with LRM5s and no other defence than 1-2 MLs, even Timberwolfs with quadruple LRM15+ARtemis and NOTHING else. If you see few LRM boats you don't play enough).

Edited by ramjb, 19 September 2014 - 09:57 AM.

[Mercules]

Moomtazz, on 19 September 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

This is funny. You're spinning this like Fox news. Calling this guy a noob for complaining about LRMs, when the reality is LRM boating requires no skill.

Because getting hit by LRMs means you did something wrong. It requires no skill to hit people who stand in the open. However, to hit people who actually know how to deal with LRMs is difficult.

[Joseph Mallan]

ramjb, on 19 September 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

They just don't realize how hypocrital and blindfolded they are, and don't realize the truth behind their folly. For them anyone complaining about LRMs is a noob, but they're just so used to farm in strong groups that they fail to realize that there's a huge part of this community playing solo PUGs - and that a single weapon shouldn't reign a battiefield either in PUG nor in groups. I know this kind of guy. Is the MWO counterpart to the WoT old-timer "arty apologists". Those who thought five top tier arties per game was fine, and for top tier arty to essentially oneshot most things with a single hit was cool. And in that game at least arty required skill to aim and lead targets. Here lurming is self-guided EZmode alltogether.

I have faith however. Things end up being clear, stats end up talking on their own. When in 2/3rds of the solo queue games the top scorer is a lurmer who did nothing but sit behind a hill the whole game, there's something up, and it will call PGI's attention sooner or later. So sooner or later LRMs will be nerfblasted into the oblivion they belong to (no weapon that easy to use should be as effective) and the whole issue will be over.





Which of course needs no balance, needs no attention, and should be let alone while most of this game is played by people queuing in the solo queue.

Here's something for you:

You, and your group queue, are not the center of the universe, and don't define the balance of this game.



Heh. This is so funny I'm not going to even answer it. Mostly because if there's someone always willing to take one for the team and die if needed to ensure a win, it's me. But whatever. Keep on dreaming in your own world of fantasy, where everything's fine and lurmboats don't exist.

(FYI, Lurmboats are everywhere. I'm just tired of seeing Summoners with nothing but LRMs, Griffins with LRM5s and no other defence than 1-2 MLs, even Timberwolfs with quadruple LRM15+ARtemis and NOTHING else. If you see few LRM boats you don't play enough).

Just out of curiosity... Do you drop alone or with 11 other players against a team of 12 other players?

[ramjb]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 September 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Just out of curiosity... Do you drop alone or with 11 other players against a team of 12 other players?

99% of my playtime is solo. I have people on my friendlist but the few times I've grouped up (in groups of 3-4) we inevitably end up running against groups of 8-12 sooner or later and of course usually the result is an overruning defeat. As a result I'm extremely discouraged to play in groups. Solo at least means you're playing against 12 randoms, not against 12 guys in teamspeak ready to farm some moar against uncoordinated foes.


(of course, it also means I'm playing besides 11 randoms, and usually they're pretty bad. But I'd rather deal with that than with 12 guys calling alphastrikes and focus fire in teamspeak.)

Edited by ramjb, 19 September 2014 - 10:02 AM.

[Mercules]

ramjb, on 19 September 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

They just don't realize how hypocrital and blindfolded they are, and don't realize the truth behind their folly. For them anyone complaining about LRMs is a noob, but they're just so used to farm in strong groups that they fail to realize that there's a huge part of this community playing solo PUGs - and that a single weapon shouldn't reign a battiefield either in PUG nor in groups. I know this kind of guy. Is the MWO counterpart to the WoT old-timer "arty apologists". Those who thought five top tier arties per game was fine, and for top tier arty to essentially oneshot most things with a single hit was cool. And in that game at least arty required skill to aim and lead targets. Here lurming is self-guided EZmode alltogether.

I have faith however. Things end up being clear, stats end up talking on their own. When in 2/3rds of the solo queue games the top scorer is a lurmer who did nothing but sit behind a hill the whole game, there's something up, and it will call PGI's attention sooner or later. So sooner or later LRMs will be nerfblasted into the oblivion they belong to (no weapon that easy to use should be as effective) and the whole issue will be over. The same way it eventually was over in WoT when the arty was nerfblasted into the support weapon it's supposed to be, and not the killing weapon it was. I expect exactly the same to happen to LRMs here, sooner or later.





Which of course needs no balance, needs no attention, and should be let alone while most of this game is played by people queuing in the solo queue.

Here's something for you:

You, and your group queue, are not the center of the universe, and don't define the balance of this game.



Heh. This is so funny I'm not going to even answer it. Mostly because if there's someone always willing to take one for the team and die if needed to ensure a win, it's me. But whatever. Keep on dreaming in your own world of fantasy, where everything's fine and lurmboats don't exist.

(FYI, Lurmboats are everywhere. I'm just tired of seeing Summoners with nothing but LRMs, Griffins with LRM5s and no other defence than 1-2 MLs, even Timberwolfs with quadruple LRM15+ARtemis and NOTHING else. If you see few LRM boats you don't play enough).

LRM boating mechs exist. They are used. I drop in PuGs all the time. I also created a Kitfox with ECM and 3 AMS. It has 4.5 tons of ammo for said AMS is bright white with red stripes. I TRY desperately to keep my team under cover of the two systems to negate their concerns about LRMs but consistently watch players who do not have a clue wander away from that protection chasing a spider that hit them with a LL once and also away from cover while LRMs stream in at them.

[El Bandito]

ramjb, on 19 September 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

(FYI, Lurmboats are everywhere. I'm just tired of seeing Summoners with nothing but LRMs, Griffins with LRM5s and no other defence than 1-2 MLs, even Timberwolfs with quadruple LRM15+ARtemis and NOTHING else. If you see few LRM boats you don't play enough).

Summoner is only decent when boating missiles. T-Wolves with no back up weapons? Either you are lying or you are in a looow elo where anything works. FYI, I see too few LRM boats in my solo matches, but that's probably because I got out of the scrub zone.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 September 2014 - 10:04 AM.

[ramjb]

El Bandito, on 19 September 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Summoner is only decent when boating missiles.

Oh. the four SRM6+A build I guess is worthless then. Strangely enough each time I see one is wrecking faces...And there are several builds involving LB10Xs which I would rather somewhat better than just "decent". But what do I know, rite?

Quote

T-Wolves with no back up weapons? Either you are lying or you are in a looow elo where anything works. FYI, I see too few LRM boats in my solo matches, but that's probably because I got out of the scrub zone.

Yes, in the last 2 weeks I've spotted at least five of those. Four of them during last weekend, another one a couple days ago. And don't get me started about LRM5 kintaros who think TAG will protect them as they carry nothing more, or stupid builds like that.

Damnit, the other day I spotted a guy in a Raven 4X with a 90.3kph top speed and a LRM20. His argument was that he was just using the mech to level up and elite the 3L. And know what? I think he had a point. Lurming is so easy that probably he'll get better XP with a LRM20 than with a normal setup (specially given that with the LRM he didn't have to splash 1.5M on DHSs)

and just for luls:



That's how bad it is. This shot is not mine, btw. Is from Epikt, has been posted in mechpecs.com forums. I guess he also plays with scrubs all the time.


As for playing with scrubs, judging by the way most of my teams play I won't discuss that with you. But don't ask me the reason. I think I'm myself a pretty decent player as if I score under 400 dmg I feel rubbish, have a 1.05K/D ratio (gone up from 0.77 3 weeks ago, I've been playing this game for less than 7 weeks now) and an average XP of 1150 per battle. Which I think is not bad. But maybe is horrible, dunno.

Edited by ramjb, 19 September 2014 - 10:17 AM.