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Reamed By Lrms...


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#281 Wolfways

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 01:49 PM

View PostKavoh, on 19 September 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:


Is this a serious post? I hope not... It takes skill in comparison to what? Actually equipping LRMs into mechbay is harder than using them. The only skill involved with LRMs are those on the ones on the receiving end of LRM 180s when they spend more than one second in line of sight. Lots of maps There is almost no cover from LRMs save a select few points where most mechs can't make it to in time for the initial fight. "Target Alpha" and 8-9/12 mechs firing off 1-2 LRM 15s/20s as you watch them aim themselves is not skill. Knowing not to shoot them into the side of a cliff is not skill and everyone focus LRMing the one target that gets painted is not "coordination" or skill.

Either you've never used LRM's against decent players, or you're so low in the ELO barrel you get spelks in your arse.

#282 Fut

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 01:55 PM

View PostLyoto Machida, on 19 September 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

Jesus Christ...2500+ games in 7 weeks?

Get a job and/or an education, bruh.


View Postramjb, on 19 September 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

And you get a grip. That I'm making a point you don't like nor share doesn't give you any right to come back with such a derogatory answer, nor going personal like that, assuming I have no education or that I even need to get any. In fact nothing does so I'm going to use that little "report" feature I see under your post.

I do remind you however that August is a month in which people usually get vacation. Just to remark that on top of an ass, you're also ... well. Won't say anything else. Not going to fall to your level..

As for my education I'm communicating with you in english. It's not my native language. Is one of the four I speak/read/write and am fluent in. In how many of them can you answer me?.

That'll give you a hint on how educated / uneducated I am.


Okay okay, we get it you're a genius and you get the same schedule as school children. Awesome.
Seriously though 2500+ games in less than two months... You need a girl/boyfriend or something...

Edited by Fut, 19 September 2014 - 01:55 PM.


#283 ramjb

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 01:55 PM

View PostWolfways, on 19 September 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Either you've never used LRM's against decent players, or you're so low in the ELO barrel you get spelks in your arse.



See the atlas LRM45 build pic I posted before?. Was uploaded by Epikt. Is he also so low in the ELO barrel he gets spelks in his arse?.

Also, is the only way you LRM staunch defenders have to defend your beloved EZmode noobweapon to insult others or to insinuate they lack skill?.

#284 Nicholas Carlyle

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 02:01 PM

Lol guess 12 year olds have a tough time with LRMs.

#285 ramjb

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 02:07 PM

View PostFut, on 19 September 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:




Okay okay, we get it you're a genius and you get the same schedule as school children. Awesome.
Seriously though 2500+ games in less than two months...



Yep, seems that the only way this individuals have to disagree is to somehow go personal or make derogatory comments about others.

however this...

Quote

You need a girl/boyfriend or something...


For reasons I'm not going to comment as I don't feel interested in detailing anything about my personal life, is funny to the extreme. Let's leave it at that and say I had a very, very, good laugh out of it.

Edited by ramjb, 19 September 2014 - 02:14 PM.


#286 Moomtazz

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 02:39 PM

Yeah it's pretty sad that they have to resort to that. It's funny how they try to say only people with low ELO complain about LRMs. I'd be willing to be I'm in a higher ELO than most of them and I definitely gripe about LRMs needing no skill to use.

#287 Wolfways

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 02:46 PM

View Postramjb, on 19 September 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:



See the atlas LRM45 build pic I posted before?. Was uploaded by Epikt. Is he also so low in the ELO barrel he gets spelks in his arse?.

Also, is the only way you LRM staunch defenders have to defend your beloved EZmode noobweapon to insult others or to insinuate they lack skill?.

No idea, I've never heard of him. But it's kind of a waste of an Atlas imo, and tbh a missile boat that slow can't get into good firing positions fast so won't be firing much.

You, and other LRM haters, keep missing the point. Saying you are a bad player because you die repeatedly to LRM's is not an insult, it's just a fact. If you cannot avoid the majority of LRM fire then you lack skill. Those of us who do this in every match are not making it up. I'm not a high ELO player, I'm probably average, yet i still mostly ignore LRM's. I do get hit more often since the clan release as there are more mechs carrying launchers now, but i don't die to them often enough to consider LRM's a decent weapon never mind an OP weapon.
I got killed by mass LRM fire last week. I remember because it's so rare that it happens. It was my fault because i screwed up and wandered too far from cover. That doesn't make LRM's OP either.

I'd be willing to bet that out of the 9000 or so matches I've played (on this account) that I've died by LRM's maybe 50 times at most (seems more like 20 tbh)... but yeah let's say 50. Screw it, say 100 just for kicks. 100 times out of 9000 matches. How is that even remotely an OP weapon?
But i guess like others you'll just assume I'm lying, probably because i want to keep my OP weapon that i use on one of my mechs (CPLT-C1 with 2xLRM15's...that i rarely use because it's a PITA to do well with compared to direct-fire mechs).

View PostMoomtazz, on 19 September 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

Yeah it's pretty sad that they have to resort to that. It's funny how they try to say only people with low ELO complain about LRMs. I'd be willing to be I'm in a higher ELO than most of them and I definitely gripe about LRMs needing no skill to use.

Do you die often to LRM's?

#288 ramjb

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 03:04 PM

View PostWolfways, on 19 September 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

No idea, I've never heard of him. But it's kind of a waste of an Atlas imo, and tbh a missile boat that slow can't get into good firing positions fast so won't be firing much.


He's a hell of a player who rakes 1000 damage in games as if it was a piece of cake. Happens to put videos up in youtube aswell. That's why I can tell he's a heck of a player.

And I doubt he's got a low ELO. I'd say with the way he plays he must have a pretty high one. And he finds guys running that stuff, which means that being a high ELO player means nothing in wether you find scrubs or not. The sorry lame excuse about hte ELO you all are constantly pulling is nonexistant, yet you don't even notice it. Probably because you're too used in farming in 12 groups, and never play in single queue. You get great players in some games, you get absolute noobs in others.

Quote

You, and other LRM haters, keep missing the point. Saying you are a bad player because you die repeatedly to LRM's is not an insult, it's just a fact. If you cannot avoid the majority of LRM fire then you lack skill.


I don't die repeatedly by LRMs. I think they're EZmode and unfairly powerful for the skill required, though, and I do think they're gamechangers of a scale no other weapon is, and should be carefully tuned accordingly.

Anyway, about your repeated claim about being "killed by LRMs due to lack of skill" I'm going to name an instance that just proves you wrong. You know, scientific method. A thesis is proven wrong the second you pull out one, just one, instance where it doesn't apply. And the instance I'm going to name I'm not making up. It's actually in a video in youtube everyone can see if they look for it.

Me in an Orion 1K. Weapons 2 MLs, 2LLs, AC20, 10 SRMs. Holding one of the hilly sides of the crater at Caustic, on the extreme side (square D5 of the map). Enemy is trying to push past the corner with a Direwolf, Orion-K(c), Atlas, Cicada and lord knows what else. After several tries I'm one of the only 2 left there holding the corner vs a Direwolf, an Atlas, and Cicada (at least). Of course all of them are hurting from previous tries to push, but if they come in and I'm not smart, they'll just run over me. And I'm holding vs those odds in an Orion-K.

By, I'd say smartly, moving and popping at the right moment and right situation with those three peeking out and trying to get me, I kill the Direwolf, I severely damage the Atlas and Cicada and force them back. Noone is able to core me as I didn't allow them to put a clean shot on me.

Then the LRM rain began. Cicada was still popping out now and then. Repeatedly I forced him into cover, but each time he tried a shower of those blasted EZtools fell upon me. I had Radar Deprivation, btw, but it helped for nothing as each time the cicada popped and wouldn't hide until they hit, the LRMs were coming my way. I couldn't withdraw as score was tied, team was barely holding elsewhere, and if I did so I would give a flank open for the enemy to come and crush us (and besides I was in a slow mech, no way I was going to give my back to a corner where I knew a Cicada was, and an Atlas could follow on his heels. I'd been dead in seconds if I stopped covering that zone)

So I'm tactically tied. I can't withdraw from the spot. I'm constantly moving to difficult things for the Cicada and LRMs but as they autoaim, who the hell cares. They hit me anyway. I'm technically hiding but there's a guy spotting me each time he pops, no matter I'm putting a lot of hurt on him each time he does. I'm hiding behind a hill twice the size of my mech but LRMs still come so steep that that hill counts for nothing. There's -NOTHING- I could do there to avoid the inevitable lurm shower. Only thing I could do is what I did: turn around each time LRMs came to spread damage, and kill the cicada. I did both.

And for the record: I survived. With all the torso armor gone yellow side torsos (STD engine so no worries) and red central torso. Literally one more missile in my CT and I'd been a goner but with the Cicada gone the LRM boat couldn't keep shooting and I could finally relocate.

Yes you'll say "oh but he didn't kill you then why do you complain?". Well , because luck, only sheer damned luck, saved me that one. Just one more missile or Cicada hit and I'd been a goner. Only because the LRM shower.

One Orion holding off against a DW, Atlas and Cicada and what almost killed him were LRMs. THat's why I complain about the damned things. They shouldn't be that effective. They just are EZmode for people to kill people who they won't be killed otherwise. How do you suggest to "not die to LRMs" in that situation, pro?. because it's a VERY common situation for you to be tactically stuck on a place, being forced to present fight, sometimes holding against superior forces just by playing smart, yet being subjected to a constant rain of hell from someone who's smoking a lucky strike behind a hill while he clicks the mouse. It's not just a fair skill-reward balance, it's infuriating, is not correct balance, and is - UNFAIR -.

tell me that's a balanced weapon and I'll tell you to f... off. As I said it only takes one wrong instance to prove a thesis wrong. Your thesis about "LRMs only killing people because they're unskilled" , hence, is proven wrong. And you with it.

(and yes the whole sequence I've described can be seen in a video in youtube. That's just one that if anyone puts in doubt he'll be embarrased as can be proven. But I have A LOT of stories like that one to tell where smart defence against superior rushing odds doesn't die to the pushing mechs but to the Lurming ezmoder sitting 900m away behind a hill with the enormous ammount of skill required to just click his mouse).

Edited by ramjb, 19 September 2014 - 03:23 PM.


#289 Moomtazz

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 03:10 PM

View PostWolfways, on 19 September 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:


Do you die often to LRM's?


Nope

#290 Marvyn Dodgers

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 03:32 PM

Please lay off the personal attacks and keep it civil (if heated) folks.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 19 September 2014 - 03:48 PM.


#291 Wolfways

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 04:23 PM

View Postramjb, on 19 September 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:


He's a hell of a player who rakes 1000 damage in games as if it was a piece of cake. Happens to put videos up in youtube aswell. That's why I can tell he's a heck of a player.

And I doubt he's got a low ELO. I'd say with the way he plays he must have a pretty high one. And he finds guys running that stuff, which means that being a high ELO player means nothing in wether you find scrubs or not. The sorry lame excuse about hte ELO you all are constantly pulling is nonexistant, yet you don't even notice it. Probably because you're too used in farming in 12 groups, and never play in single queue. You get great players in some games, you get absolute noobs in others.

I only play in the solo queue, and yes you occasionally get noobs and great players but (at least in my matches) most players seem to be around my level (as far as i can tell anyway). I know that the majority of players I'm against are good at avoiding LRM's.

Quote

Another Caustic story...

It's funny how so many people that complain about LRM's always tell how they were OP on Caustic (and sometimes Alpine). Most of the other maps have loads of cover making LRM's mostly useless. Are you really complaining that a weapon performs well on a single map?

#292 ramjb

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 04:27 PM

View PostWolfways, on 19 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:


It's funny how so many people that complain about LRM's always tell how they were OP on Caustic (and sometimes Alpine). Most of the other maps have loads of cover making LRM's mostly useless. Are you really complaining that a weapon performs well on a single map?


I have similar instances on almost every other map. It's just that the one I commented about is in a video, and as such I can tell it with hard proof to back my words, and happened to happen in Caustic. But from Terra Therma to frozen city, I have a lot of examples like that. caustic is just horribad for lurms, but that doesn't mean that in a map with cover you still can get pinned down in a position with poor or no LRM cover and HAVE to defend it and present battle wether you want it or not. And then Lurms come. GG.

#293 Wolfways

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 04:28 PM

View PostMoomtazz, on 19 September 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:


Nope

So you just want them nerfed "because"?

if a weapon doesn't really bother you in game then there's no reason to complain about it just because it's "easy to use"...otherwise I'd be complaining about how every laser was OP.

#294 Wolfways

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 04:34 PM

View Postramjb, on 19 September 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:


I have similar instances on almost every other map. It's just that the one I commented about is in a video, and as such I can tell it with hard proof to back my words, and happened to happen in Caustic. But from Terra Therma to frozen city, I have a lot of examples like that. caustic is just horribad for lurms, but that doesn't mean that in a map with cover you still can get pinned down in a position with poor or no LRM cover and HAVE to defend it and present battle wether you want it or not. And then Lurms come. GG.

I suggest using cover, especially if you are defending an area. Terra Therma and especially Frozen City are bad for LRM's. TT is lots of short corridors and FC has loads of cover all over.

There's nothing i can say that will change your mind anyway. Some people learn to avoid the majority of LRM's on most maps, some can't learn to do it. That's no reason to nerf the weapon even more.

#295 Kavoh

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 04:34 PM

View PostWolfways, on 19 September 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Either you've never used LRM's against decent players, or you're so low in the ELO barrel you get spelks in your arse.


No I have used/experienced LRMs (To be fair, I dont know how they were for the past year as I have been absent) for long enough to not be ignorant of the fact that they are absolutely skilless. No matter how you try and spin it, LRM boating/spamming will never hold a candle to any other weapon system in terms of skill. Just because certain teams attempt to use different methods of combat without LRMs, doesn't change the fact that the risk/reward of LRMs is too skewed. The TAG/NARC mechs are the ones with the skill.

EDIT: And the fact that you say you only solo que and therefore don't face coordinated teams (one that comes to mind is the 228 LRM team I fought in a group drop that smoked our my team with good narc/tag usage) just shows that you haven't experienced how stupid they can be.

Edited by Kavoh, 19 September 2014 - 04:49 PM.


#296 Scratx

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 04:41 PM

View PostJoshua Obrien, on 17 September 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

Posted Image


I'm not going to go through the entire thread so forgive me if somebody already noticed this... but...

You got targeted by no less than FOUR LRM boats.

Look carefully. LRM5-10-20's, C-Lrm10, C-Lrm15+Art and Lrm15+Art. You MUST have 4 mechs for that firepower combo, at least.

Sorry, but any mech focus-fired by 4 other mechs is going to melt in short order.

#297 Wolfways

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 04:43 PM

View PostKavoh, on 19 September 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:


No I have used/experienced LRMs (To be fair, I dont know how they were for the past year as I have been absent) for long enough to not be ignorant of the fact that they are absolutely skilless. No matter how you try and spin it, LRM boating/spamming will never hold a candle to any other weapon system in terms of skill. Just because certain teams attempt to use different methods of combat without LRMs, doesn't change the fact that the risk/reward of LRMs is too skewed.

Because pointing at a target and clicking the mouse button requires much more skill....

If you can sit around behind cover and just press R and click the mouse button to get high damage/kills with LRM's you are not playing against decent players.

If people are so concerned about LRM's being OP here's a suggestion. Ask PGI to buff LRM's. Really. Increase missile speed and players won't be able to drop/relock so easily to avoid terrain. Ask PGI to make LRM's fire-and-forget to make it so there's no chance of drop/relock. Ask PGI to make LRM's better in direct-fire situations by decreasing the ROF (and increase damage by an equal amount to keep the same dps) so there's less "missile spam".

#298 Time Bandit

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 04:57 PM

I play LRM. My mech is BUILT to play LRM. I'm not going to change that, I am BEST at a fire support role (which is what LRMs are for, mind you). There really is SKILL to knowing when to stop your fire (that little reticule tells you when you hit, or don't, ya know), when you're going to lose lock (and miss, most likely), and whether not you want to waste missiles on that fast light that's running by. You can't call it a n00b weapon simply because you don't like it. Call me a n00b all you want (note that Founder's badge), but that doesn't change the fact that it's taken much practice for me, with LRM and my backup weapons, to even get close to those illustrious 1000+ dmg matches.

Edited by Time Bandit, 19 September 2014 - 04:59 PM.


#299 ramjb

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 05:04 PM

View PostTime Bandit, on 19 September 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

I play LRM. My mech is BUILT to play LRM. I'm not going to change that, I am BEST at a fire support role (which is what LRMs are for, mind you). There really is SKILL to knowing when to stop your fire (that little reticule tells you when you hit, or don't, ya know), when you're going to lose lock (and miss, most likely), and whether not you want to waste missiles on that fast light that's running by. You can't call it a n00b weapon simply because you don't like it. Call me a n00b all you want (note that Founder's badge), but that doesn't change the fact that it's taken much practice for me to even get close to those illustrious 1000+ dmg matches.


You're definining something called Situational Awareness. Which is a skill. And a skill every mech needs. When I'm in a direct fire weapons mech I have to keep control on my surroundings, know who is where, who might be flanking my position, who was sniping from that other position some time ago and might still be there. When the fight starts I have to prioritize targets, know when to fire, know when is best to delay my shots not to overheat, when you want to shoot your ballistic weapon, or when is better to hold fire not to waste ammo that might be worth it's weight in gold later on. You need to pay attention at which part of the enemy mech is more damaged, and try to focus fire there. Keep a constant eye on your cover and withdrawal routes, etc.

So the skills you are describing, are needed in EVERY MECH IN THE GAME.

However, in any mech other than lurmboats those skills are the difference between life and death. In a lurmboat are the difference between hitting or not hitting. Hefty difference right there. Also, those skills are not mandatory. My first over 1000 game was in a shadowhawk with 4 LRM5s, no TAG, and I had no clue about what to do other than point at the boxes and keep on clicking.

Literally, EZmode gave me my first high damaging games. And believe me, only thing I was doing was mashing that button once a lock was achieved. Much skill. So hard.

Also, to get high damage in a direct fire mech you need to do something more than hit R and click your mouse. You must hitscan (lasers). You must lead the target (PPC/Ballistics). You have to predict enemy movements, have a soft hand at mouse displacement.

And on top of that, you MUST know how to do it under enemy direct fire, and also know when you rather move back to cover to avoid being fired at and taking damage. Torso twist to spread damage. Jump to botch the enemy aim. and a long etc.

That's the part where EVERY MECH IN THE GAME demands skill...except for the lurmboats. Click-click-click. That's all what's required to hit. And you can do it behind cover and with no LOS to your target so you can't be fired at.


That's where the no-skill claim comes, and is pretty downright accurate. LRMs don't require skill at all to damage stuff. You only hit R and smash the button. Endstory.

Edited by ramjb, 19 September 2014 - 05:14 PM.


#300 Kavoh

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 05:06 PM

View PostWolfways, on 19 September 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

Because pointing at a target and clicking the mouse button requires much more skill....

If you can sit around behind cover and just press R and click the mouse button to get high damage/kills with LRM's you are not playing against decent players.

If people are so concerned about LRM's being OP here's a suggestion. Ask PGI to buff LRM's. Really. Increase missile speed and players won't be able to drop/relock so easily to avoid terrain. Ask PGI to make LRM's fire-and-forget to make it so there's no chance of drop/relock. Ask PGI to make LRM's better in direct-fire situations by decreasing the ROF (and increase damage by an equal amount to keep the same dps) so there's less "missile spam".

Moving into better positions to get good angles is what most other weapon systems require yes. Your statement saying "you must not be facing good players" has no ground. A good team will be in a spot where LRMs are prime, and all they have to do is utilize a good tag/narc mech and have at it. With this only extreme cover will protect the target. Average mountains. slopes, small buildings, ravines, etc. do nothing at all. Just because you have a hard time trying to solo as an LRM boat in solo que because you constantly drop target, doesn't mean coordinated groups do.

Do note, I am not saying they should have the way they are operated changed.

The fact that you say "you just haven't fought skilled players" only proves that LRMs are overboard as they require top players even to survive. (By your logic, not mine)

Edited by Kavoh, 19 September 2014 - 05:08 PM.






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