353 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

Dracol, on 17 September 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

You pointed a weapon dead on at a stationary target. Any non-missile based weapon will do 100% damage to the CT. The very fact that not all LRMs are landing on the CT make it a less effective weapon then all others.... and you want it to be even less effective??

Any other weapon that isn't a Streak will require aiming. And Streaks will damage all components equally bad. I'll ask you same thing I asked others already, why should LRM have a higher chance to hit CT then SSRM?

[Moomtazz]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 September 2014 - 03:53 AM, said:

he is complaining about being the target of massed fire here. He is the target of at least 2 missile boats. So if he was being shot be 2-3 AC/PPC builds he would have died just as fast.

Crying about indirect fire is like crying cause the pitcher has a wicked Slider.

As a grenadier I could lob a 40 mm grenade over a wall to provide a warm welcome to enemy forces. You are playing a combat game, I want my combat weapons to act somewhat like actual weapons. I do support fixing things like clipping and phasing through cover, but if you haven't chosen the right cover, or the enemy has you pinged, you just need to die and deal with it, or find better cover fast.

The problem is that all those LRM boats have to do is press R then mash the fire button to focus fire an enemy. There is no skill involved and even if he gets to cover after one salvo of massed missiles, his armor is now stripped. Remove the easy assist function from LRMs!

[LauLiao]

Quxudica, on 17 September 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

The best solution would be to make Indirect Fire with LRMs only possible if the target is tagged or NARC'd, without these an LRM user should need to maintain LoS to maintain a lock.

I will only agree with this if LRMs no longer required you to maintain a lock after launch. When you're firing PPCs, ACs, etc., you don't have to stare down your target face to face, exposing your CT for anywhere from 3-10 seconds while you wait for your shot to land. With those weapons at least you can shoot-and-twist to spread damage.

[Ovion]

Moomtazz, on 17 September 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

The problem is that all those LRM boats have to do is press R then mash the fire button to focus fire an enemy. There is no skill involved and even if he gets to cover after one salvo of massed missiles, his armor is now stripped. Remove the easy assist function from LRMs!

sigh

No, it's not a case of 'just hit R and mash fire'.

You have to get a target.
This requires LoS or a team mate spotting.

Then you have to get a lock.
That's the important part.
You have to hold the reticule over the target for 1-5 seconds to acquire a lock.
You then have to retain that lock be keeping the reticule over the target for the additional 2-8 seconds it takes to reach the target.
If there's ECM, Dep module, or vertical cover, then you can forget about those locks.

Then even when you have them, you face off against the incoming missile warning and area AMS, or ECM moving in.

So yes, if you stand in the open like a mook, you deserve to get sandblasted.

But when every other weapon requires you to only center the reticule and fire, it baffles me how LRMs are 'easy mode'.

Edited by Ovion, 17 September 2014 - 12:21 PM.

[Apnu]

LRMs are fine. They have more counters in the game than any other weapon system.

Terrain, ECM, target lock time, Radar Dep. AMS, slow travel time, targeting from somebody hitting 'r' (which few do) .

Use all these things and they won't be that big of a problem.

[Wolfways]

Tuefel Hunden, on 17 September 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

I was killed by a Dire Wolf in one barrage of UAC5s and Medium Lasers. There was nothing I could do. Please nerf OP'd direct fire weapons. Or at least make so direct fire weapons only work when I am standing still and am afk. Seriously, there is no way I should be able to be hit when moving. I should be able to waltz across an open field and not be hit.

Try a Spider

[DocBach]

Ovion, on 17 September 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

sigh

No, it's not a case of 'just hit R and mash fire'.

You have to get a target.
This requires LoS or a team mate spotting.

Then you have to get a lock.
That's the important part.
You have to hold the reticule over the target for 1-5 seconds to acquire a lock.
You then have to retain that lock be keeping the reticule over the target for the additional 2-8 seconds it takes to reach the target.
If there's ECM, Dep module, or vertical cover, then you can forget about those locks.

Then even when you have them, you face off against the incoming missile warning and area AMS, or ECM moving in.

So yes, if you stand in the open like a mook, you deserve to get sandblasted.

But when every other weapon requires you to only center the reticule and fire, it baffles me how LRMs are 'easy mode'.

Also the ability to hold a lock is dependent on a third player who may or may not be being shot at, who may or may not be able to keep that lock, dropping your LRM's into a rock instead of your target. And good luck trying to get missile hits on a light 'Mech.

Edited by DocBach, 17 September 2014 - 12:44 PM.

[Abivard]

LRMs provide the most visual impact of any weapon in the game, with the added bonus of screen-shake, which could be classified as visual+.
It also has auditory warnings and flashes big red letters across your screen, then AMS starts going off all over the place OMG then the explosions and the loud noises, panic ensues, the player runs, they die.

That single LRM 5 masked the dozens of ballistic and energy weapons that cored that player but all they can remember is the Terror of LURMS from the Sky!

[Wolfways]

PhoenixFire55, on 17 September 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

Nothing to do with DPS. If you can't aim you bring LRMs, if you can you bring direct fire. As simple as that.

I disagree. Using LRM's doesn't mean you can't aim. Some people (myself included) use weapons just because they like them. My favourite BT weapons are pulse lasers and LRM's. When i get the Mad Dog Prime it will be my main mech, even though i know pulse lasers aren't great and LRM's suck.
If i want an easy game i have a JM6-S.

PhoenixFire55, on 17 September 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

If you stand still 95% of LRMs hit your CT. They should spread FAR more even if you stand still, let alone torso twist and move. They don't.

LRM5 maybe. Bring AMS.

[Totem1]

Looking at the OP's damage list he was hit by at least 4 enemies (possibly 5). List includes IS lrms, Aretmis IS lrms, Clan lrm's and Artemis Clan Lrms.. plus at least one clan medium laser. This indicates at least 4 people firing on him. Sounds to me like you got your non jump Ilya in a bad place and if you were hit by a clan laser you were possibly hit by a narc too.

[Abivard]

Totem1, on 17 September 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

Looking at the OP's damage list he was hit by at least 4 enemies (possibly 5). List includes IS lrms, Aretmis IS lrms, Clan lrm's and Artemis Clan Lrms.. plus at least one clan medium laser. This indicates at least 4 people firing on him. Sounds to me like you got your non jump Ilya in a bad place and if you were hit by a clan laser you were possibly hit by a narc too.

if a laser can hit you so can a tag.

[Spr1ggan]

Wolfways, on 17 September 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

I disagree. Using LRM's doesn't mean you can't aim. Some people (myself included) use weapons just because they like them. My favourite BT weapons are pulse lasers and LRM's. When i get the Mad Dog Prime it will be my main mech, even though i know pulse lasers aren't great and LRM's suck.
If i want an easy game i have a JM6-S.


LRM5 maybe. Bring AMS.

That might be the case with you. However 9/10 lrm boats i have killed up close or ended up spectating really struggle to hit a single component with their back up weapons. I've gotten to brawl distance with lrm boats and ended up just standing still in front of them blowing their ct apart, no need to even twist to avoid the lasers cos they can't hit the broadside of a barn with them.

This doesn't always go for Clan lrm boats though for obvious reasons.

Edited by McHarg, 17 September 2014 - 01:24 PM.

[Moomtazz]

Ovion, on 17 September 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

sigh

No, it's not a case of 'just hit R and mash fire'.

You have to get a target.
This requires LoS or a team mate spotting.

Then you have to get a lock.
That's the important part.
You have to hold the reticule over the target for 1-5 seconds to acquire a lock.
You then have to retain that lock be keeping the reticule over the target for the additional 2-8 seconds it takes to reach the target.
If there's ECM, Dep module, or vertical cover, then you can forget about those locks.

Then even when you have them, you face off against the incoming missile warning and area AMS, or ECM moving in.

So yes, if you stand in the open like a mook, you deserve to get sandblasted.

But when every other weapon requires you to only center the reticule and fire, it baffles me how LRMs are 'easy mode'.

Is this Bizarro world? LRMs are extremely easy mode. I can't comprehend someone claiming otherwise. I guess you do better with lasers/ballistics than LRMs? Since all you have to do is center the reticle and fire...

[DocBach]

Moomtazz, on 17 September 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

I guess you do better with lasers/ballistics than LRMs? Since all you have to do is center the reticle and fire...

Yes, very much so --

Edited by DocBach, 17 September 2014 - 02:30 PM.

[Moomtazz]

LOL come on get real. That means nothing in regards to effectiveness.

[DocBach]

How do you mean? The LRM's missed way more and did way less damage than the projectiles or lasers. How would they be more effective?

[Moomtazz]

I am talking about skill needed to use a weapon system. Are you going to argue that it takes more or equal skill to use LRMs than it does to use lasers/ballistics? My argument is that LRMs are the lower skilled weapons.

[DocBach]

LRM's are a completely team dependent weapon in the most part. LRM effectiveness is derived on if the other team mates can maintain locks, or if you bring added equipment to boost their abilities. They have slow projectile speed and the player has to maintain a lock to guide the missile the entire flight time, meaning they can't torso twist to avoid incoming damage, and they spread damage all over an enemy inefficiently. There are trade offs, and if you don't recognize that, perhaps that's why you don't understand that I can kill you way easier with a PPC or an autocannon.

Edited by DocBach, 17 September 2014 - 02:48 PM.

[Moomtazz]

I have many hours of experience in LRM boats. From a pure skill perspective they are absolutely nowhere near as difficult to play as a aimed weapon mech. You do not need to aim! You get the crosshair close and get the lock then fire. I don;t see how anyone can claim that LRM boating takes skill. And I bring Tag/BAP when I LRM. Maybe that is the huge skll factor??? Knowing you need to equip TAG and BAP?

[DocBach]

Just because you have a lock, doesn't mean you're going to hit.

If I am at something with one of my projectile weapons, I have twice the chance of hitting it, based on the statistics I provided.