353 replies to this topic

[Moomtazz]

How does skill play a part? I mean actual physical skill? It doesn't matter if 1 out of 100 missiles hit if all you have to do is get the reticle in the general area and press a button then there is no skill involved. Besides that, the biggy is that all a player has to do is hit R and he is now focus firing along with all the other LRaMers on his team. To do that same thing with other weapons means the players must consciously pay attention to which enemy is getting hit, then start adding their fire to that target.

[DocBach]

It means that players who sit back and just shoot LRM's aren't as effective over the course of the battle as much as you think, unless you make a really stupid tactical decision like trying to cross a linear danger area without cover or concealment.

Edited by DocBach, 17 September 2014 - 03:04 PM.

[Wolfways]

Moomtazz, on 17 September 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

Is this Bizarro world? LRMs are extremely easy mode. I can't comprehend someone claiming otherwise. I guess you do better with lasers/ballistics than LRMs? Since all you have to do is center the reticle and fire...

LRM's are extremely easy mode...against bad players.

Edited by Wolfways, 17 September 2014 - 03:08 PM.

[Lightfoot]

Shutdown while moving behind cover. It spoofs the missiles to hit where you shutdown, but you moved a few meters past that point so they all miss.

[Ovion]

To use LRMs effectively, to pull proper, or equivalent damage to Ballistic / Energy builds, is not easy.

Edited by Ovion, 17 September 2014 - 03:09 PM.

[Spr1ggan]

Wolfways, on 17 September 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

LRM's are extremely easy mode...against bad players.

I've seen some of the best players in the game have a hard time against lrms due to narc, etc. Are you gonna say that they're bad players?

Edited by McHarg, 17 September 2014 - 03:26 PM.

[Gerhardt Jorgensson]

McHarg, on 17 September 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

I've seen some of the best players in the game have a hard time against lrms due to narc, etc.

Perhaps NARC needs to be nerfed.

[Spr1ggan]

Gerhardt Jorgensson, on 17 September 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

Perhaps NARC needs to be nerfed.

Well also mechs like the Dire Wolf and Warhawk are extremely vulnerable to lrm spam from boats. Due to the huge ct + long flat surface shell they have. Especially the Dire as it doesn't have the speed to quickly get to cover.

Edited by McHarg, 17 September 2014 - 03:47 PM.

[Gerhardt Jorgensson]

McHarg, on 17 September 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

Well also mechs like the Dire Wolf and Warhawk are extremely vulnerable to lrm spam from boats. Due to the huge ct + long flat surface shell they have. Especially the Dire as it doesn't have the speed to quickly get to cover.

This feels like hitboxes of certain 'Mechs were included to provide some semblance balance more than a problem with LRM's or NARC themselves -- the Dire Wolf can carry insane amounts of fire power and survive the destruction of a side torso. As mentioned previously in the thread, missiles are much more effective against certain chassis due to unique geometry, but that is a risk you take when using them.

Edited by Gerhardt Jorgensson, 17 September 2014 - 03:50 PM.

[Spr1ggan]

Gerhardt Jorgensson, on 17 September 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

This feels like hitboxes of certain 'Mechs were included to provide some semblance balance more than a problem with LRM's or NARC themselves -- the Dire Wolf can carry insane amounts of fire power and survive the destruction of a side torso. As mentioned previously in the thread, missiles are much more effective against certain chassis due to unique geometry, but that is a risk you take when using them.

While true. Most Dire Wolf pilots still have to aim their weapons. Unlike the skill-less lrm boats.

Like I said earlier. The vast majority of lrm boat pilots I have seen are incapable of aiming at a target and hitting it with thir back up direct fire weapons. This lack of being able aim and hit a target is why they gravitate to builds where they can sit back and just lock onto targets.

I have been killed by lrm boats but it's rare. It's not the being shaken or killed by them that's annoying. It's the sheer lack of skill required and cheapness of it. As it's the UAV deployers, spotters, and NARCers that did all the work.

Edited by McHarg, 17 September 2014 - 04:13 PM.

[El Bandito]

Dying to LRMs in Canyon? Tsk tsk.

1. Remember effective spots to hide from LRMs, as there are plenty of places in that map.

2. Just shut down if the enemy does not have LoS on you--and you break all IDF tracking. So easy.

McHarg, on 17 September 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

I have been killed by lrm boats but it's rare. It's not the being shaken or killed by them that's annoying. It's the sheer lack of skill required and cheapness of it. As it's the UAV deployers, spotters, and NARCers that did all the work.

It is called teamwork. Learn to take it. UAV, NARCing and spotting means little if Lurmers do not do their job.

McHarg, on 17 September 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

I've seen some of the best players in the game have a hard time against lrms due to narc, etc. Are you gonna say that they're bad players?

Care to name some? Being NARCed sucks, and NARC needs nerf, but most of the good players I know have no problem against LRMs.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 September 2014 - 04:32 PM.

[Spr1ggan]

El Bandito, on 17 September 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

Dying to LRMs in Canyon? Tsk tsk.

1. Remember effective spots to hide from LRMs, as there are plenty of places in that map.

2. Just shut down if the enemy does not have LoS on you--and you break all IDF tracking. So easy.



It is called teamwork. Learn to take it. UAV, NARCing and spotting means **** if Lurmers do not do their job.

Lol at the big talk. Coming from a no name that's probably never played comp. And plays nothing but lrms.

[Piney II]

I would love to see some sort of cockpit indication that you're wearing a narc. Not that it would help you immensely, but at least you will know why the sky is suddenly blotted out with missiles that have your name on them.

[Tezcatli]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 September 2014 - 03:53 AM, said:

he is complaining about being the target of massed fire here. He is the target of at least 2 missile boats. So if he was being shot be 2-3 AC/PPC builds he would have died just as fast.

Crying about indirect fire is like crying cause the pitcher has a wicked Slider.

As a grenadier I could lob a 40 mm grenade over a wall to provide a warm welcome to enemy forces. You are playing a combat game, I want my combat weapons to act somewhat like actual weapons. I do support fixing things like clipping and phasing through cover, but if you haven't chosen the right cover, or the enemy has you pinged, you just need to die and deal with it, or find better cover fast.

Except when you duck behind cover against people using ACs and other weapons. It does not magically arc around the cover and hit you.

[Lyoto Machida]

PhoenixFire55, on 17 September 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

As long as the lock is kept it hits 100% of the time.

Have you ever used LRMs before?

You could have lock 100% of the time (all 15 minutes of a game) and land 0% of your missiles.

[terrycloth]

LRMs take a lot more skill than lasers. Lasers are the easiest weapon to use and have the highest hit ratio for pretty much everybody.

LRMs have the worst. Worse than streaks, worse than ballistics of all sorts, worse than SRMs even. LRMs are, empirically, the hardest weapons to use and therefore take the most skill.

[Piney II]

I suck at using LRMs. They seem like EZ mode at first glance, but they're not.

[Lyoto Machida]

McHarg, on 17 September 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

While true. Most Dire Wolf pilots still have to aim their weapons. Unlike the skill-less lrm boats.

Like I said earlier. The vast majority of lrm boat pilots I have seen are incapable of aiming at a target and hitting it with thir back up direct fire weapons. This lack of being able aim and hit a target is why they gravitate to builds where they can sit back and just lock onto targets.

I have been killed by lrm boats but it's rare. It's not the being shaken or killed by them that's annoying. It's the sheer lack of skill required and cheapness of it. As it's the UAV deployers, spotters, and NARCers that did all the work.

You sound mad...maybe take a break from the forums for a bit.

Most LRM pilots can't break 40% accuracy with LRMs. That's because most of them are doing what you describe. Not all of them though...

[El Bandito]

McHarg, on 17 September 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

Lol at the big talk. Coming from a no name that's probably never played comp.

McHarg, on 17 September 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

And plays nothing but lrms.

Stop being an assuming *****.

I use LRMs to farm puggers because they are hilariously inept at dealing with the slowest weapon in the game.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 September 2014 - 04:47 PM.

[Mercules]

PhoenixFire55, on 17 September 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Observe.

9 LRM5s to kill a Commando through CT. Arms and legs fully fresh, sides barely damaged. No TAG, no Narc. Thats 49.5 LRM damage to kill a mech with 40 points of CT.

Test 2.

5 LRM15s to kill same commando through CT. Some damage on arms and legs, but sides aren't even close to be opened still when CT goes down. Thats 82.5 damage most of which goes into CT.

So a still target, facing you, while you have Artemis and are in direct LoS. So you just demonstrated what Artemis was supposed to do for LRMs. Congratulations. Now, do that with a Commando, going full tilt, ducking and dodging in and out of cover with Radar Dep and twisting to avoid taking damage to his CT. Don't forget in the testing grounds mechs have STOCK armor which is LESS THAN HALF what a Commando can and normally will put on.

PhoenixFire55, on 17 September 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Why bother if nobody uses a non-Artemis LRMs anymore?
My point is same, Artemis or not, TAG or not, whatever. They should spread the damage more or less evenly across the mech when facing it. No matter what I did, I killed a mech through CT, the healthiest part, without even as much as opening sides or damaging any limbs. This isn't balance, this is bullsh!t. Don't forget we are talking about a fkn Commando here.

LOTS of people use non Artemis LRMs. If you build a support mech and know you will have a spotter on your team then you don't equip Artemis. Why? because it is a waste of tonnage on a mech that will never have LOS and be using it. BTW, your "Healthiest Part" of that Commando has 2 more points or armor than the other pieces.

PhoenixFire55, on 17 September 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

Any other weapon that isn't a Streak will require aiming. And Streaks will damage all components equally bad. I'll ask you same thing I asked others already, why should LRM have a higher chance to hit CT then SSRM?

Because Streaks don't have half the counters LRMs do. If you are close enough to use Streaks you are likely close enough for BAP. Streaks also don't give the target time to get into cover. You can easily dodge LRMs you can't easily dodge Streaks.

McHarg, on 17 September 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

I've seen some of the best players in the game have a hard time against lrms due to narc, etc. Are you gonna say that they're bad players?

Yes... At least when it comes to dealing with LRMs. Even WITH Narc you have ways of dealing with them For one thing you move next to my Bright White and Red "Emergency" Kitfox with ECM, 3 AMS and 4.5 tons of ammo for it.