231 replies to this topic

[DeathjesterUK]

So, I can clearly see that one of the big issues with the current iteration of the game is that the heat is...not so balanced. Having started playing the game again, I can see why. Ghost heat is killing creativity in the design of mechs and ultimately is not needed in the game. Why this was implemented I have no idea, when there is a great way, already laid out by FASA, to ensure that the heat has gradual degradation of the mechs performance.

Heat is something that should be hazardous to the mech and even to the pilot. There should be increasing performance hits from it being harder to target and hit, to the mech becoming slower and slower, to the risk of ammo exploding and vaporising your mech. There should even be an option to cook yourself in your cockpit from overheating. Take a look at the basic heat char below from Battletech. With some work, this could be used to make this game a far more thoughtful and tactical shooter...as it was supposed to be. Let me know what you guys think.

PS: It should come as no surprise that I think Ghost Heat should be removed completely.

[Lyoto Machida]

Has been mentioned numerous times. Check the Archived threads.

[Stormwolf]

Gotta agree with the OP here, I was expecting a bit more from the heatsystem here.

[Blood Rose]

+1, Paul and Russ need to actually read these threads. Maybe then we would have a functioning game.

[Kmieciu]

I find it curious as best that you can run at 99% all day long and nothing happens with your mech. But when you reach 105% and override shutdown, you explode in seconds.
Shouldn't the penalties be more, you know, gradual?
Right now we've got: nothing->nothing->nothing->shutdown->death.

I would prefer something in the lines of: nothing->slowdown->HUD flicker->chance of ammo explosion->shutdown->death

Instead of ghost heat, I would introduce a chance of shutdown each time you generate a lot of heat in a short period of time. 4xPPC would shut you down even if your heat would only increase by 50%.

Edited by Kmieciu, 19 September 2014 - 12:46 AM.

[DeathjesterUK]

Blood Rose, on 19 September 2014 - 12:37 AM, said:

+1, Paul and Russ need to actually read these threads. Maybe then we would have a functioning game.

Well, Im pretty sure that Russ reads these forums and the ideas that are in them. I played Battletech from when I was 9 to the age of...well, now, 28 years later. I found the heat system in the mechwarrior games weird, but at the time it was just amazing to be tromping around in a mech. Anyone remember Mechwarrior I!!?? That game was awesome. But we have come so far. And to be using the same generic heat system as Mechwarrior I used all those years ago it selling yourself short.

[Black Ivan]

+1 for OP.

Problem is that implementing the classic heat system also needs the upgrade of the double heatsinks oit's real 2.0vaue, not 1.4 as it is actualy. After that all weapons have to be rebalanced the new system. I don't think that PGI will all this work.

Edited by Black Ivan, 19 September 2014 - 01:18 AM.

[STEF_]

+1 here too.
This is one if the stuff I really like from TT.

Having this and clicking "j" for jettison ammo would be really an awesome step toward the BT mech simulation we all want.

[Kiiyor]

Maybe.

The issue is n00bs.

You know, the guys who shout in triumph when they manage to get the feet bits working with the top bits, before exploding when the team retaliates after they successfully test their weapons on the nearest Jenner.

You add another layer of complexity to the MWO Lasagne and new players won't bother to stick around past the first bite, despite the delicious bechamel sauce and glistening chunks of beef with a cup full of hearty vegetables thrown in, because they add a surprising extra dimension to the dish, besides cheese-guilt.








Edit: Not that I don't want it. I think the idea is awesome.
/devilsadvocate

Edited by Kiiyor, 19 September 2014 - 01:56 AM.

[IsaAurinkoinen]

DeathjesterUK, on 19 September 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

Ghost heat is killing creativity in the design of mechs and ultimately is not needed in the game.

I call BS. How this is killing creativity when you are punished boating lots of same weapon. If you want to run more same weapons than GH limit, you just have to manage you heat better. GH isn't real problem to many, idea of it is not from TT/canon is. If you think GH is problem, maybe you are just bad in this game? Sorry.

Thou love heat scale penalty idea. We need more hot maps and penalties to run too hot.

[Kiiyor]

IsaAurinkoinen, on 19 September 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

I call BS. How this is killing creativity when you are punished boating lots of same weapon. If you want to run more same weapons than GH limit, you just have to manage you heat better. GH isn't real problem to many, idea of it is not from TT/canon is. If you think GH is problem, maybe you are just bad in this game? Sorry.

Thou love heat scale penalty idea. We need more hot maps and penalties to run too hot.

No clan mech needs a hot map to run hot

Did the clans ever get TSM?

[IsaAurinkoinen]

Kiiyor, on 19 September 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

No clan mech needs a hot map to run hot

Only really hot clan mech is 12ML NOVA, and only if you don't have any trigger dicipline. Personally I don't have any other heat problems when playing clanmechs other than itchy triggerfinger.

[Elizander]

I would like a partial implementation of the heat scale but only at the upper levels of heat (perhaps 75% or higher). New players will just die even more if the penalties start at the lower part of the scale but veteran players will now have an extra 75% area of risk to play with when they dance with their opponents and judgement calls need to be made if the shot is worth the extra heat penalties or not.

I am alright with ghost heat for now, though PGI should make a more fitting and official term for it like Excess Heat or Weapon Overheat. It's part of the game so it should be properly categorized in game terms.

[Aaren Kai]

An old idea that needs to be brought up again... and again... and again... so I'll give it a +1

[Kiiyor]

Elizander, on 19 September 2014 - 02:21 AM, said:

I would like a partial implementation of the heat scale but only at the upper levels of heat (perhaps 75% or higher). New players will just die even more if the penalties start at the lower part of the scale but veteran players will now have an extra 75% area of risk to play with when they dance with their opponents and judgement calls need to be made if the shot is worth the extra heat penalties or not.

I am alright with ghost heat for now, though PGI should make a more fitting and official term for it like Excess Heat or Weapon Overheat. It's part of the game so it should be properly categorized in game terms.

I think we should start with the HUD. Make it start to flicker above 50% - the cockpit lights too. Above 75%, the flickering should be drastic, and over 80%, the crosshairs gone entirely.

Make people aim with the center of the screen.

There will be no damage, so no-one need worry about n00bs exploding. You also won't be able to see your heatscale, so it will make any further action a bit of a gamble.

As it stands, the first real penalty of high heat is shutdown. There probably needs to be some lead up before that.

[Fut]

DeathjesterUK, on 19 September 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

Yes please!
I can't even remember how many times I've posted this exact image on these forums.
In my opinion, MWO needs a more robust heat system - it doesn't even have to be as intricate as the chart quoted above. Just something that illustrates how important heat management is for BattleMechs. I honestly believe that this is the primary reason for MWO feeling less Mech-like than it should.

[kapusta11]

• 0.5 heat dissipation per double heatsink
  
• 0-30 heat - no effect
  
• 30-35 - internal structure damage + 30% reduction in accel/deccel rating, twist and movement speed.
  
• 35-40 - all above x2 + ammo detonation + shutdown

[Reitrix]

The problem with those penalties is that they're all after the fact.

The real issue is planting an entire alpha strike into exactly one pixel on the enemy 'Mech.

It doesn't matter if my crosshair vanishes at 99% heat if the 8 PPC Alpha that took me that high obliterated my target.

[Dracol]

Black Ivan, on 19 September 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:

+1 for OP.

Problem is that implementing the classic heat system also needs the upgrade of the double heatsinks oit's real 2.0vaue, not 1.4 as it is actualy. After that all weapons have to be rebalanced the new system. I don't think that PGI will all this work.

Correction: DHS act better then 2.0 after double basic is unlocked, up to 13 heats sinks, Beyond 13 it starts dropping below 2.0

No matter the case, you're actually running better than 1.4 over all. Most likely up near the 1.8 / 1.9 area.

Over all, how the heat sinks works with the double basic efficiencies, it gives a slight benefit to lighter mechs since they have a tendency to run fewer DHS. It is one of the ways MW:O has actually made lights and mediums desirable.

[kapusta11]

Reitrix, on 19 September 2014 - 04:41 AM, said:

The problem with those penalties is that they're all after the fact.

The real issue is planting an entire alpha strike into exactly one pixel on the enemy 'Mech.

It doesn't matter if my crosshair vanishes at 99% heat if the 8 PPC Alpha that took me that high obliterated my target.

Pinpoint Alphas are indeed an issue, the separate one. With doubled armor 2 Gauss Rifles deal the same amount of damage to one location as 1 Gauss in TT so anything below 30 damage is fine.

Dracol, on 19 September 2014 - 04:42 AM, said:

Correction: DHS act better then 2.0 after double basic is unlocked, up to 13 heats sinks, Beyond 13 it starts dropping below 2.0

No matter the case, you're actually running better than 1.4 over all. Most likely up near the 1.8 / 1.9 area.

Over all, how the heat sinks works with the double basic efficiencies, it gives a slight benefit to lighter mechs since they have a tendency to run fewer DHS. It is one of the ways MW:O has actually made lights and mediums desirable.

Heat dissipation acts like a shared coodown for all energy weapons. Rate of fire (coodown reduction) in MWO is 2.5 higher than in TT yet dissipation remained the same. Result: All energy weapon mechs are worthless.

Edited by kapusta11, 19 September 2014 - 04:48 AM.