104 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Zeece, on 26 September 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

They better be really damn careful then because throwing Solos into group and 12mans is a recipe for disaster.

Not appreciably different than putting 2-mans in.

The difference, of course, is that CW is entirely Opt In, and it is, by it's nature, inherently group oriented. Join it, and you know you're joining a group, because at least in the case of the attackers a group is required.

Zeece, on 26 September 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

At the launch event their design document had the Solo Que pushing the fronts opening up planets for conquest for the group que.... it eludes me why they would go away from this design... it was solid and meaningful for the solo players.

The Launch Event Presentation is all basically thrown out the window. Just pretend it never happened.

[Triordinant]

Jacob Side, on 26 September 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

You guys shouldn't have an influence on CW, stay playing in your solo hell, we don't want to hear about how you got rolled by groups in CW.

There's really no incentive for soloists to play CW so I doubt many will. In fact, the playerbase will probably double in size if all the big established groups didn't play anything but CW.

[Wintersdark]

Rwraith, on 26 September 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

Playing as solo attached to a group is easy. They go right, you go right. They go left, you go left. Just because you aren't part of the "group" doesn't mean you can't play as part of the group ad-hoc. Playing as a PUG is just as easy as long as people stay together. It's not as good as a coordinated group but if you stay together you raise your survival rate tremendously.

And these days with unit tags, it's easy to identify the largest/most appropriate group to join up with, unlike the old queue when you never really knew who was grouped with who.

Of course, the above quoted post is why I wish I could opt-in to the group queue while playing solo. I always did that in the old mixed queue, and it worked extremely well for me.

Triordinant, on 26 September 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

There's really no incentive for soloists to play CW so I doubt many will. In fact, the playerbase will probably double in size if all the big established groups didn't play anything but CW.

Errr, except to play in matches that matter? It's not rocket science, there's lots of reasons for a solo player to want to play in CW. It allows him to play for his faction, and have the outcome of those matches actually make a difference.

Triordinant, on 26 September 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

Those are good choices. If you like Wasteland 2, I'd suggest Jagged Alliance 2 and Jagged Alliance Wildfire as well. I hope you already have the new X-Com game. Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 will keep you busy for months.

Shadowrun Returns/Dragonfall is also quite awesome, if you're into those games.

[Boris The Spider]

KingCobra, on 26 September 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

Plus the fact if you look at the solo and group MM queues right now you see the majority of the players base playing solo battles. Most solo-casual players don't want to get on TS3 or VOIP or even download it why do you think they would do so to play CW?
CW should have been made for the solo-casual players in MWO because they represent the largest part of the player base when you build a CW based on just 5% of the player base and then force them to be rolled and farmed it never ends well.

They don't/shouldn’t need to group up. They just need to accept the physical impossibility of making a CW planetary conquest system that uses mixed factions in single matches and the physical impossibility of having faction matched solo queues without massive unenforceable sync dropping.

Zeece, on 26 September 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Um dude.. Solo Players can have faction... just like anyone else
And I meant the CW explanation we got from PGI at the Launch Event...

They said solo players will have a place, the solo queue was not even a consideration then. As for the solo faction, what planets will the solo faction fight over? How will you know which side wins? It makes no sense.

[Hoax415]

Triordinant, on 26 September 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

There's really no incentive for soloists to play CW so I doubt many will. In fact, the playerbase will probably double in size if all the big established groups didn't play anything but CW.

This would be the win-win if people who can't even be assed to join pick up groups/voip but hate playing against non solo players just ignore CW. Its an optional RP, tryhard game mode.

Think of CW like ranked play in dota/LoL.

But what is going to happen is everyone will think CW is owed to them. Solo players are really not going to like not having a solo queue or MM or elo to protect them from stomps and there will be much rage and QQ.

[Dolph Hoskins]

What I plan to do, given the right day with the right amount of time to play. Say I drop solo in a planetary match among...lets say a mixed bag of 2,3,4 man groups, then we work together well. After that particular phase I might be like hey, I'll drop in your TS for the next attack defense phase.

This is what I look forward to, working with my clan being attached where it is enjoyable and helpful with out being required to "train" or hear continual PGI bashing even on my head phones.

[Triordinant]

Wintersdark, on 26 September 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

Errr, except to play in matches that matter? It's not rocket science, there's lots of reasons for a solo player to want to play in CW. It allows him to play for his faction, and have the outcome of those matches actually make a difference.

I agree that those are all good reasons, but I suspect that when soloists discover they're up against the same big groups they successfully threw out by establishing the solo queue, many will decide it's not worth it.

[TexAce]

Boris The Spider, on 26 September 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

They don't/shouldn’t need to group up. They just need to accept the physical impossibility of making a CW planetary conquest system that uses mixed factions in single matches and the physical impossibility of having faction matched solo queues without massive unenforceable sync dropping.



They said solo players will have a place, the solo queue was not even a consideration then. As for the solo faction, what planets will the solo faction fight over? How will you know which side wins? It makes no sense.

which solo faction? there is no solo faction, there are only solo players (meaning they dont group up with other people) and lonewolfes. A solo player can belong to a house and fight for it and fill spots, as a lonewolf can for any house(or will be able to after phase 2 started).

Edited by TexAss, 26 September 2014 - 08:12 AM.

[Boris The Spider]

Triordinant, on 26 September 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

I agree that those are all good reasons, but I suspect that when soloists discover they're up against the same big groups they successfully threw out by establishing the solo queue, many will decide it's not worth it.

We have solo players requesting the ability to drop with groups. They will be the mainstay solo players in CW. Anyone else will just have to consider the risk/reward of it and make their own choice.

TexAss, on 26 September 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

which solo faction? there is no solo faction, there are only solo players (meaning they dont group up with other people) and lonewolfes. A solo player can belong to a house and fight for it and fill spots, as a lonewolf can for any house(or will be able to after phase 2 started).

Yes, obviously, but you cannot have a CW fight to see who takes control of a sector with a mixed random solo queue, and you cannot have a faction matched solo queue without sync dropping.

[Triordinant]

Hoax415, on 26 September 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

This would be the win-win if people who can't even be assed to join pick up groups/voip but hate playing against non solo players just ignore CW. Its an optional RP, tryhard game mode.

Think of CW like ranked play in dota/LoL.

But what is going to happen is everyone will think CW is owed to them. Solo players are really not going to like not having a solo queue or MM or elo to protect them from stomps and there will be much rage and QQ.

If lots of soloists really want to play in CW (something we're not even sure of), maybe they could fight the Border Conflicts and groups can fight the Invasion Conflicts (as defined by Paul Inouye's update).

[TexAce]

Boris The Spider, on 26 September 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

We have solo players requesting the ability to drop with groups. They will be the mainstay solo players in CW. Anyone else will just have to consider the risk/reward of it and make their own choice.



Yes, obviously, but you cannot have a CW fight to see who takes control of a sector with a mixed random solo queue, and you cannot have a faction matched solo queue without sync dropping.

why mixed random solo queue? If a steiner group wants to fight, you as a solo steiner guy can join, and later also a lonewolf can join. If you are any other house you cant join the match on the steiner side of course.

Cmon people its not that hard

[Boris The Spider]

TexAss, on 26 September 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

why mixed random solo queue? If a steiner group wants to fight, you as a solo steiner guy can join, and later also a lonewolf can join. If you are any other house you cant join the match on the steiner side of course.

Cmon people its not that hard

But it wont be a solo only queue will it? You seem to have jumped in the middle of a conversation, not undersood the context and are infact, are arguing exactly the same point as me!

Edited by Boris The Spider, 26 September 2014 - 08:28 AM.

[TexAce]

Boris The Spider, on 26 September 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

But it wont be a solo only queue will it? You seem to have jumped in the middle of a conversation, not undersood the context and are infact, are arguing exactly the same point as me!

yes I did and Im not arguing against you per se.

concerning your question of a solo only queue: I dont know why we shouldnt be able as a solo, say steiner pilot, start an attack and let other steiner/LNW/allies join in and restrict the joining players to be only solo players. The enemy team would need to consist of solo players only, too.

I would certainly like that, since I'm for 95% a solo player.

Edited by TexAss, 26 September 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[Russ Bullock]

Wasn't able to read all the posts so I might be repeating things here.

The latest iteration on the CW design has solo players accepting contracts to jump into planet attacks and defense. The unit and group will just provide extra incentive to achieve things as a unit.

But everyone gets to play

[Bigbacon]

Triordinant, on 26 September 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

There's really no incentive for soloists to play CW so I doubt many will. In fact, the playerbase will probably double in size if all the big established groups didn't play anything but CW.

CW will fail miserably because there is not enough people playing it to make it fun.

They have to let solo people in.

EDIT:
and obviously they are....

Edited by Bigbacon, 26 September 2014 - 08:40 AM.

[TexAce]

Russ Bullock, on 26 September 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Wasn't able to read all the posts so I might be repeating things here.

The latest iteration on the CW design has solo players accepting contracts to jump into planet attacks and defense. The unit and group will just provide extra incentive to achieve things as a unit.

But everyone gets to play

Thanks, but if I would be a faction player, say steiner, would I be able as a solo player to start an attack and let only other solo players join and fight a solo-only enemy team?

You know, with those 85% it wouldnt be a bad idea.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Russ Bullock, on 26 September 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Wasn't able to read all the posts so I might be repeating things here.

The latest iteration on the CW design has solo players accepting contracts to jump into planet attacks and defense. The unit and group will just provide extra incentive to achieve things as a unit.

But everyone gets to play

Sorry if you've answered this before, but if unit coffers get dinged for logistics, will solo players be as well based on a similar scaling used for units?

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 26 September 2014 - 08:42 AM.

[Russ Bullock]

But to be clear CW will be a more hard core role playing mode - the Queue's for planetary conquest will be fairly punishing. I mean ELO will not be taken into account and if an organized 12 man is attacking a planet - 12 random solo players lining up to defend is likely not going to be a successful defense.

Most certainly the point of CW is for Factions and Units to fight for each other - everyone can participate but solo players should not expect the same Solo Queue nicety that exists in public play to exist in CW.

CW is a very specific choice to participate - Absolutely everyone can play in all aspects of Attack and Defend but yes it's best to get together in a unit, practice strategies with your Dropships and play as a unit.

[Boris The Spider]

TexAss, on 26 September 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

yes I did and Im not arguing against you per se.

concerning your question of a solo only queue: I dont know why we shouldnt be able as a solo, say steiner pilot, start an attack and let other steiner/LNW/allies join in and restrict the joining players to be only solo players. The enemy team would need to consist of solo players only, too.

I would certainly like that, since I'm for 95% a solo player.

Because Steiner has a TS server with 100+ players in it, It would not be a solo queue.

TexAss, on 26 September 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Thanks, but if I would be a faction player, say steiner, would I be able as a solo player to start an attack and let only other solo players join and fight a solo-only enemy team?

You know, with those 85% it wouldnt be a bad idea.

You couldnt gaurantee that none of them would be TS together. It would be likley that several would be.

Edited by Boris The Spider, 26 September 2014 - 08:46 AM.

[TexAce]

Russ Bullock, on 26 September 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

But to be clear CW will be a more hard core role playing mode - the Queue's for planetary conquest will be fairly punishing. I mean ELO will not be taken into account and if an organized 12 man is attacking a planet - 12 random solo players lining up to defend is likely not going to be a successful defense.

Most certainly the point of CW is for Factions and Units to fight for each other - everyone can participate but solo players should not expect the same Solo Queue nicety that exists in public play to exist in CW.

CW is a very specific choice to participate - Absolutely everyone can play in all aspects of Attack and Defend but yes it's best to get together in a unit, practice strategies with your Dropships and play as a unit.

Thats a nice wish to come true from a game designer view, but trust me, there are many many players who like to stay solo and wont understand why they cant just open up a queue on their own and let other solo players team up with them and fight other solo-only teams. Nothing different than counterstrike back in the v1 days.

Dont be fooled by solo-players being weak or get crushed, there are some really strong ones and ELO should be there to sort this out.