1430 replies to this topic

[Troopwe]

IraqiWalker, on 12 October 2014 - 08:27 PM, said:

Yes, the BK is an IS mech, however, it's a one trick pony, and it's a bad trick, to boot. The Grasshopper may not have ballistics on most variants, but all of it's variants boat energy just as well, if not better, with missiles, and jump jets.

Correction, the Grasshopper has no ballistics on ANY variant.

And a single missile hardpoint with a single slot is not really an option. But to be fair: these would be your options:
1.) 1 x SSRM2
2.) 1 x SRM2
3.) 1 x SRM4
4.) 1 x SRM2 + ArtemisVI
5.) 1 x LRM5

Furthermore IF the old artwork is any indicaton than the torsor mounted lasers of the Grasshopper are (even if just slightly) lower than those of the Black Knight, which would make the BK a better "Sniper",

Edited by Troopwe, 12 October 2014 - 08:52 PM.

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

When does the hurting stop?
This poll should be closed now, at 2399x2399.

[DarkonFullPower]

Duncan Jr Fischer, on 12 October 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

When does the hurting stop?
This poll should be closed now, at 2399x2399.

Just made it 2399x2400. Holy BALLS this is close.

Option 3...both?

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

DarkonFullPower, on 12 October 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:

Just made it 2399x2400. Holy BALLS this is close.

Option 3...both?

I guess they have no other choice. At this point it doesn't even matter who is in the lead, both were there enough times.
2 for the price of 1, I guess that's my point

[Hospy]

IraqiWalker, on 12 October 2014 - 08:27 PM, said:

It's still going to be sub par in comparison. Why get a mech that we already know is inferior to it's competition, when we can get one to change things up.

Yes, the BK is an IS mech, however, it's a one trick pony, and it's a bad trick, to boot. The Grasshopper may not have ballistics on most variants, but all of it's variants boat energy just as well, if not better, with missiles, and jump jets.

The CTF at best has 5 energy hardpoints, while the GHR will have on average 5+ not as low mounted (best CTFs have 2 somewhat high mounted, while the GHR might have more)

The only comparison you have relating it to the CTF so far has been the fact that both have a head mounted missile hardpoint. Other than that, I really don't see much of anything similar between them.

They're both 70 tons, they run at the same speed, have the same jumping capability, and both run significant laser armament. The difference is the Cataphract has hi mounted torso lasers where the Grasshopper has waist high ones. The Grasshopper is also a pretty tall mech, so those low mounted lasers are going make it particularly vulnerable when popping up and down.

On the other hand, there is no comparable mech to the Black Knight in the current IS arsenal. It may not be a very good mech in the meta, but it's at least not a mech that isn't already in the game, more or less.

[El Bandito]

Troopwe, on 12 October 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

Correction, the Grasshopper has no ballistics on ANY variant.

And a single missile hardpoint with a single slot is not really an option. But to be fair: these would be your options:
1.) 1 x SSRM2
2.) 1 x SRM2
3.) 1 x SRM4
4.) 1 x SRM2 + ArtemisVI
5.) 1 x LRM5

Furthermore IF the old artwork is any indicaton than the torsor mounted lasers of the Grasshopper are (even if just slightly) lower than those of the Black Knight, which would make the BK a better "Sniper",

1 x LRM 5 is a great option for a DF mech to rattle up the enemy in duels, get cheap assists, and scout out the enemy location by baiting the AMS. I know people who put a single LRM 5 on their Assaults for those purposes.

Hospy, on 12 October 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:

They're both 70 tons, they run at the same speed, have the same jumping capability, and both run significant laser armament. The difference is the Cataphract has hi mounted torso lasers where the Grasshopper has waist high ones. The Grasshopper is also a pretty tall mech, so those low mounted lasers are going make it particularly vulnerable when popping up and down.

Only Cataphract variant that can jump is the 3D. I want a JJ version of my beloved laser show CTF-1X, and that's why I vote for the Grasshopper.

Besides, we have not seen the artwork yet. It is too early to make assumptions about hard point placements.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 October 2014 - 09:07 PM.

[Hospy]

...the 1X has one energy hard point over the 3D.

In any event, just look at a picture or a miniature of the Grasshopper, the lasers are right at its belly button.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Hospy, on 12 October 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

...the 1X has one energy hard point over the 3D.

In any event, just look at a picture or a miniature of the Grasshopper, the lasers are right at its belly button.

Not a problem in my Shawks or Cents. Not a problem in my Catapults. Never had a problem with low mounted weapons, because I do not think "Must hill hump." Try it.

[Troopwe]

El Bandito, on 12 October 2014 - 09:02 PM, said:

1 x LRM 5 is a great option for a DF mech to rattle up the enemy in duels, get cheap assists, and scout out the enemy location by baiting the AMS. I know people who put a single LRM 5 on their Assaults for those purposes.

Besides, we have not seen the artwork yet. It is too early to make assumptions about hard point placements.

You only get the assists, IF the 5 missiles can pass the AMS shield.

The artwork so far may have influenced to over all looks of the mechs, but not the height of the weapons. PGI seemed to stick to the original when it comes to the "location" of the weapons

Nathan Foxbane, on 12 October 2014 - 09:26 PM, said:

Not a problem in my Shawks or Cents. Not a problem in my Catapults. Never had a problem with low mounted weapons, because I do not think "Must hill hump." Try it.

SDH and Cent are a medium, The catapults belly is basically at the same height as its head. You never had problems with low hanging weapons? Try Orion.

Edited by Troopwe, 12 October 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[Hospy]

You might not have this problem on the Centurions or the Shadow Hawks because those hard points are around your chest area.

The closest comparison for models already in game would be the energy mounts on the arms of the Trebuchet, Vindicator, and Orion.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Troopwe, on 12 October 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

SDH is a medium, The catapults belly is basically at the same height as its head. You never had problems with low hanging weapons? try Orion.

And all but one SDH have a mere three jump jets with low mounted energy in the arms. I am used to dealing with it. High is a nice advantage, but not beat all end all.
Why do I need another which I have no real affinity for? I have CTF-1X and 2X. I have Wolverines, I have all sorts of 'Mechs. Most not yet mastered. I do not need to add the Orion to the list. Heck, I have Stormcrows which have a low mounted head to go along with their low mounted arm hardpoints, Bit different when your whole torso is above your head than when just some weapons are.

Hospy, on 12 October 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

You might not have this problem on the Centurions or the Shadow Hawks because those hard points are around your chest area.

The closest comparison for models already in game would be the energy mounts on the arms of the Trebuchet, Vindicator, and Orion.

I like my TBT-7M. The beams are fine for me.

[El Bandito]

Troopwe, on 12 October 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

SDH and Cent are a medium, The catapults belly is basically at the same height as its head. You never had problems with low hanging weapons? Try Orion.

And the Orion will still be superior since it has ballistic and missile on top of energy. Why would anyone want an inferior Orion? Especially since the Orion itself is T4?

I'd rather take an energy version of the 3D instead. At least 3D is tier 1 mech.

Troopwe, on 12 October 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

The artwork so far may have influenced to over all looks of the mechs, but not the height of the weapons. PGI seemed to stick to the original when it comes to the "location" of the weapons

Hahaha. In that case, the right arm weapon of the Bad Knight will be super low, and useless. At least the GHR has JJ's to pull of snap shots.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 October 2014 - 10:14 PM.

[White Bear 84]

Peeples! No changing your vote to keep it even now...

Mind you, maybe an even vote will mean that we get 2 at once with a grasshopper/black knight pair of hero mechs aka flame and fang style!

[luxebo]

Someone changed it.

[Hospy]

El Bandito, on 12 October 2014 - 10:03 PM, said:

And the Orion will still be superior since it has ballistic and missile on top of energy. Why would anyone want an inferior Orion? Especially since the Orion itself is T4?

I'd rather take an energy version of the 3D instead. At least 3D is tier 1 mech.

Hahaha. In that case, the right arm weapon of the Bad Knight will be super low, and useless. At least the GHR has JJ's to pull of snap shots.

...the Orion is pretty bad at direct fire support because all of its direct fire hard points are low mounted. What it does do well is boat missiles, which is why the Black Knight would have a role.

As to your second point, the the Black Knight has four chest mounted energy hard points in addition to its head hard point. Three low energy hard points out of eight isn't bad.

[El Bandito]

Hospy, on 12 October 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:

...the Orion is pretty bad at direct fire support because all of its direct fire hard points are low mounted. What it does do well is boat missiles, which is why the Black Knight would have a role.

As to your second point, the the Black Knight has four chest mounted energy hard points in addition to its head hard point. Three low energy hard points out of eight isn't bad.

It is bad, if you are a non JJ mech. The head mount can have medium laser at most. Torso mounted weapons are very sluggish to use unless you snipe from far distance. But sniping is done much more effectively if the mech has JJ--which means GHR is still the better choice.

[Hospy]

Then why would you bring that instead of the Cataphract -3D?

We're going around in circles again. The Black Knight offers something that the IS line up currently doesn't have. The Grasshopper's niche overlaps quite a bit with the Cataphract and the Quickdraw.

I mean, I guess you could keep comparing the Grasshopper directly against the Black Knight, but I think that's a pretty silly exercise given that neither of these mechs are going to be very good in the meta anyway without serious quirks.

[El Bandito]

Hospy, on 12 October 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

Then why would you bring that instead of the Cataphract -3D?

We're going around in circles again. The Black Knight offers something that the IS line up currently doesn't have. The Grasshopper's niche overlaps quite a bit with the Cataphract and the Quickdraw.

I mean, I guess you could keep comparing the Grasshopper directly against the Black Knight, but I think that's a pretty silly exercise given that neither of these mechs are going to be very good in the meta anyway without serious quirks.

That's why I prefer the better one of the two mediocre mechs--the GHR.

Besides 3D does not have SIX energy hardpoints. So the GHR still is offering something that the IS does not have. A 70 ton jump capable energy boat.

It is hypocrite of you to keep saying the BK offers something new while the GHR doesn't--cause that is false.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 October 2014 - 11:46 PM.

[Karl Marlow]

The Suspense!

Vote Grasshopper.

[Varhait]

Hospy, on 12 October 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

Then why would you bring that instead of the Cataphract -3D?

We're going around in circles again. The Black Knight offers something that the IS line up currently doesn't have.

not quite

Black Knight is a lighter and faster version of AWS-8Q(7 energy) or AWS-9M(6 energy)

In both cases we have a close analogue(black knight/awesome, grasshopper/quickdraw), both have a similar hardpoints, almost same weigt. The only significant difference is jump jets.

So the choice is:
Laserboat (black knight) or laserboat with jump jets (grasshopper)



PS sorry for my english