963 replies to this topic

[UnsafePilot]

JozefK, on 17 October 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

Oogalook, on 17 October 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

You misinterpret my point. Though the awesome, in this example, was basically non-viable before the quirk pass and will be good again after, it can only be that good on the condition that the pilot only use the PPC spam build suggested by the quirks. The loss of diversity is within the variant: The pilot buys the 'mech, and then can do nothing reasonably with it other than the no doubt powerful PPC build, or else he can continue to suffer the same difficulties he did before the quirk pass by employing laser vomit and passing up the benefits of the weapon buffs.

Err, i think you are talking to the pigeons. I mean you argument is obviously logical. If they can't understand it, well it can't be helped

But it isn't obviously logical. You can still reasonably do things other than the no doubt powerful ppc build. If the person enjoyed laser vomit before they can keep on with it afterwards. Nothing is being lost.

[Elizander]

Not getting on this island. I'm all for this change.

[Oogalook]

UnsafePilot, on 17 October 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

But it isn't obviously logical. You can still reasonably do things other than the no doubt powerful ppc build. If the person enjoyed laser vomit before they can keep on with it afterwards. Nothing is being lost.

Ah, but the laser vomit Awesome isn't getting a buff to firepower, except, admittedly, the beam duration thing. If the laser vomit Awesome was non-competitive before, it doesn't become much better as a result of the quirk pass. The benefit is lost for it.

[KraftySOT]

And frankly if you were mounting lasers before...and now youre compelled to mount PPCs...thats still diversity.

Just because you dont want to mount PPCs, doesnt mean customization and diversity are being killed. If you want to embrace the diversity, you can branch out, and try something new.

[UnsafePilot]

Oogalook, on 17 October 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

Ah, but the laser vomit Awesome isn't getting a buff to firepower, except, admittedly, the beam duration thing. If the laser vomit Awesome was non-competitive before, it doesn't become much better as a result of the quirk pass. The benefit is lost for it.

In your earlier post the person using the laser vomit awesome was enjoying it. Nothing is changing that should effect that.

If they were comfortable with being non-competitive before they'll be comfortable with it now. If they're not then there's not an issue here because they were already min/maxing.

[KraftySOT]

Oogalook, on 17 October 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

Ah, but the laser vomit Awesome isn't getting a buff to firepower, except, admittedly, the beam duration thing. If the laser vomit Awesome was non-competitive before, it doesn't become much better as a result of the quirk pass. The benefit is lost for it.

God youre dense.

If you were doing a laser vomit awesome of that variant before...youre an idiot. Thats not diversity, thats you being a lame brain and coming up with a bad build because "reasons".

It isnt being penalized. Its still a bad build. Youre still a dofus is you take one out in favor of a Whale, Victor, Wubshee, or DDC.

However, now, for people who arent dense...the Awesome variant in question, has a use. It now has 1 competitive build, where as before, it had 0.

[ShinVector]

Hmmmm...
Seeing how more people still run Tier 1 builds that will get no bonuses...
I don't really see a problem here...

Edited by ShinVector, 17 October 2014 - 07:27 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

Bhael Fire, on 17 October 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

The quirk system, if anything, makes the game feel more like BattleTech because each mech will have a defined role and/or specialty. Customization is still there for minor tweaks, but the emphasis is on making each mech fill a specific role. This, to me, is in the spirit of BattleTech all the way.

Furthermore, it will actually give players a reason to play other variants and chassis. When you can customize a mech in multiple configurations equally, there's often very little reason to explore different variants/chassis.

I have mechs sitting around collecting dust because I have other variants/chassis that do their job better. With the quirk system, I might actually be able to use these mechs again confidently without feeling like I'm intentionally gimping myself.

[KraftySOT]

The Wolverine for example has zero competitive builds.

Though I dont know what the Quirks are, I know the Quirks will make at least one build on the Wolfie, competitive.

Thats diversity. Thats why PGI asked "top men" to help them with the Tiering and Quirks.

[Koniving]

KraftySOT, on 17 October 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

No ones running around in the 4H either.

Additional Armor (RT) +18
Additional Structure (RT) +12
AC/10 Range +20%
AC/10 Cooldown +20%
Medium Laser Cooldown +20%
Medium Laser Heat Gen -20%

This one is a little more pigeon holed, and may not improve its desireability at all. So nothing has changed.

The fact remains that you gravitate towards meta builds, and of the meta builds, there are only about 12.

If this leads to ONE MORE VIABLE COMPETITIVE BUILD, it increases diversity, and theres no scientifically possible way that this will lead to LESS than 12 viable competitive builds.

Especially since it only touches the IS, and 3 of the 5 best mechs, are clan. Timby, Doomcrow, and Whale.

I think it'd help. The 4H was my least favorite and with good reason. The damn thing is just too hot no matter what you put in there.

But here's a funny thing.

This was my 4G before the quirks.

XL engine, 46 front armor and 2 rear for the RT. No quirks.

Now imagine what it'll be like... 18 + 46 front armor, 2 rear (note the 'rear torso' on the RT of the Hunchbacks is about the size of the Hunchback's fist and below the 'hump'. Everything else is front torso) and 12+24 structure = 100 damage to get through my RT... where in that video it was 70.

I'll be freakin' invincible! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Die, all of you!

[KraftySOT]

ShinVector, on 17 October 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

Hmmmm...
Seeing how more people still run Tier 1 builds that will get no bonuses...
I don't really see a problem here...

**** mine was considered Tier 3. Any improvement at all is nice. If I get more ST armor or structure...awesome.

[Belorion]

UnsafePilot, on 17 October 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

But it isn't obviously logical. You can still reasonably do things other than the no doubt powerful ppc build. If the person enjoyed laser vomit before they can keep on with it afterwards. Nothing is being lost.

There are quirks besides the PPC quirks yes?

Additional Structure CT +20
Additional Structure LT +10
Additional Structure RT +10
Laser Duration -16%

[KraftySOT]

Koniving, on 17 October 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

I think it'd help. The 4H was my least favorite and with good reason. The damn thing is just too hot no matter what you put in there.

But here's a funny thing.

This was my 4G before the quirks.

XL engine, 46 front armor and 2 rear for the RT. No quirks.

Now imagine what it'll be like... 18 + 46 front armor, 2 rear (note the 'rear torso' on the RT of the Hunchbacks is about the size of the Hunchback's fist and below the 'hump'. Everything else is front torso) and 12+24 structure = 100 damage to get through my RT... where in that video it was 70.

I'll be freakin' invincible! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Die, all of you!

Exactly.

Mechs coming off the shelf is the essence of diversity.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I think some folks are forgetting the overall balance equation in their arguments against these quirks.

In overall game balance, it is not about an AWS fighting an AWS or hunchie vs hunchie. Thats a false premise to start from.

If the best JM6 option from a game play balance perspective is the twin AC20 or Gauss build (both highly lethal if played well) and the quirks those mechs receive do not enhance the 20 or the Gauss....or they any less viable now? Not likely....but some other previously suboptimal build now moves up to a closer position of parity against the meta builds. Thats better for the state of the game.

Btw, ****** personal insults like calling those that disagree with you (i.e pigeons) just demonstrates the weakness of your argument and more pointedly your own inherent character issues while damaging your own credibility around here.

[JozefK]

Lukoi Banacek, on 17 October 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

Josefk....players already purchase multiple mechs to elite them. These quirks have no negative impact on that and in fact might encourage folks to buys m3chs they normally would avoid because they see a potential buff to using the semi-canon builds enhanced by these quirks.

There is no demonstrable downside to these quirk proposals thus far.

Forcing players to purchase multiple mech variants just to be able to progress in skills is not fair at the first place. Actually i wasn't here when it happend but it seems pretty simmilar attempt of forcing players to spend more money on the game, just like this one.
That said, i have sold my variant after researcing their basic skill so that i can:
a) get some money back
get slot back

And i could do that because variant were pretty much the same thing. Now with this new "feature" i will need to keep those variants if i want to experience varied gameplay. Meaning that i will have less money and hangar slots and will be more likely to spend real money on the game. What was intended by this change.

KraftySOT, on 17 October 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

But it still doesnt change the mechs that are currently viable. Just because your Dual Guass Jager wont be getting a bonus to Gauss rifles...does not mean its not still a top tier build.

Yes it changes them. Implicitely. Your mech config will stay the same but because of the global increase of the mech performance, your configuration (if not quirk-optimised) will perform less good then before.

[KraftySOT]

And what is that Small Pulse and MGs? Nice build.

[Eddrick]

It doesn't kill costomization. It just encourages specific builds. Sized Hardpoints hurt customization more. Forced Stock is what would kill customization.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

ShinVector, on 17 October 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

Hmmmm...
Seeing how more people still run Tier 1 builds that will get no bonuses...
I don't really see a problem here...

What! no bonuses for Tier 1 builds. that is going to kill variety! I prefer to use a copper cookie cutter rather than plastic, this will never work.

OP, you completely missed the point. No one loses anything, and these bottom tier builds were rarely seen on the battlefield anyway. The only problem I see with the system so far is that Tier 1 & 2 chassis don't get enough quirks specifically BECAUSE people successfully run meta builds on them. Some of those top tier builds really deserve some quirks to encourage diversity beyond the cookie cutter bastardizations out there.

[KraftySOT]

JozefK, on 17 October 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

Yes it changes them. Implicitely. Your mech config will stay the same but because of the global increase of the mech performance, your configuration (if not quirk-optimised) will perform less good then before.

No it wont, thats insane.

30 point alphas at 1200m is still 30 point alphas at 1200m. Unless the quirk is buffing a gauss or LRM on another mech, the increase in ability of all the mechs compared to the Dual Gauss, DOESNT MATTER.

All the AC20 and medium laser and torso twist buffs in the world, dont change the fact that the Jagerbomb is popping people across the map. It doesnt change the Timberwolf able to take you down in 6 seconds. My Wubshee can still take you down instantly.

Nothing changes for the top meta builds. The reason theyre top, is because theyre....the top.

If youre in 1st place. And someone takes 10th place, and puts him in 3rd place.

Youre still in ******* 1st place dude.

[Revis Volek]

CapperDeluxe, on 17 October 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

You can still put a Gauss on a Hunchback 4G if you want, you just won't get the bonuses. There's no negatives involved.

Well Capper gets it!

Nothing will change if your loadout doesnt cater to the quirks. But they will adjust these mechs to fit ROLE WARFARE BETTER and make it so that Role Specific build DO IN FACT get bonus'. What is so hard to understand about that? If you think this is making the game more bland you dont understand the proposed changes and should really take a better look.