311 replies to this topic

[Nightmare1]

Great update! I'm really looking forward to Phase 2!

By the way, your Spoiler has nothing to hide. It may just be my PC, but when I click "Show," there's nothing there.

[DEN_Ninja]

Hiyo Paul, Suggestion/Question here.

Can you expand on what you mean by zones?

The idea of separation of planetary conquest into zones sounds much more interesting and easier to balance rather than token.s

My idea for how Planetary Conquest Zones would work is that when a faction chooses to launch into a planetary conquest is that it opens up the Planetary map that divides the planet into key zones or conquest areas. This creates a series of drop zones that are adjacent to each other starting with the drop zone that must be conquered first. From there the conquest of the planet can be managed by capturing X out of X zones on a planet and allowing the "defense" to mount counter attacks to retake a planetary zone.

This overall is much more exciting and interesting than having a token system that is just numerical representations. You can customize each zone to be tied to specific maps and allow for specialized drops and games on a per planet/per zone basis.

Planetary conquest ends after an allotted time or if the planet is fully captured with all zones under control of a faction. The most Zones determines who owns the planet but allows for immediate counter attack or "rescue" operations for stranded units on the planet.

I'd imagine it would go like this.

Faction Kurita launches planetary conquest of Faction Davion Planet Crossing.

Field opens to show planetary map of Crossing having 13 Conquest zones. First wave attacking Kurita launches on a zone.

Zone conquest is successful and opens up 3 new zones for attack. Board is 12 - 1
Kurita attacks new Adjacent zone and successfully conquers. Board is at 11 - 2
Davion launches counter attack simultaneous to another Kurita attack on new adjacent zone. Davions are successful defending and counter attacking. Board is back to 12 - 1

What this does is allows people to form fronts and planets and having multiple planetary battles per 'turn' or in real time. The planetary conquest is now an invested affair. Oh god it would be cool to have an orbital layer.

Crossing has 2 moons with military installations that could be turned into conquest zones.

Or I am just crazy and I want some semblance of tactics.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 23 October 2014 - 07:13 AM.

[Hoax415]

Here is my most burning question to Paul that I hope might see answer in two weeks.

Paul,

What have you guys thought about or worked on to deal with population imbalances between the factions?

Every video game with npc factions to fight for has a problem where populations get out of whack and the smaller faction just can't win. Hopefully you guys at PGI acknowledge that you need to do things to try to keep this problem from getting too out of control?

I've been wondering about this since 2013 but finally we have enough information that I can try to ask about some real features.

1. Would it work to stagger the faction contract sign ups instead of doing them all at once?

The purpose here is to allow you to adjust as you go the rewards factions are offering. If all the sign ups are at once then we get "locked" into a situation where some factions are far too small and some factions are much much larger than the rest. This is sub-optimal because the small factions are going to lose tokens because they don't have enough players to defend and the larger factions are going to spend long amounts of time sitting in queue waiting for defenders or attackers because there are so many of them.

If the contracts are staggered by amounts then you can adjust the rewards between each release so that the smaller factions are offering better contracts. i.e. I would start with the permanent contracts, players can sign up for those over a weekend week(s) before the start of CW. Then you guys have time to collect the data on how many players signed up for each faction and how many are even signing up for permanent status. Then you let people sign up for four month contracts. As the population trend appears you can make adjustments so that by the time you get to 1-month contracts if Liao and FRR are much much smaller factions than Davion, then you can have the Davion 1-month contract be worth less than Liao and FRR contracts to try to "nudge" players into playing for the factions that need more players. For instance the FRR and Liao 1-month contracts could be worth a LP lump sum that is closer to that of the Davion 2-month lump sum or whatever. The numbers don't matter. Hope that all made sense.

If we don't do something like that we are locked at the start of CW with potentially very imbalanced faction populations and that's just how its going to be for the first month until contracts start to expire.

2. Do you have plans to use population and faction successes to determine the number of CW planets that are contested at a given time?

This seems like an effective population imbalance control that doesn't require anything added to the systems you have described. If the larger factions find themselves with more worlds to defend then their population gets spread over more battlefields which helps to prevent them from using zerg to get uncontested wins elsewhere. I'm curious if this is part of the plan?

i.e. House Steiner is the largest great house in terms of population, so on a given day they will find themselves with several more worlds to defend compared to the smallest factions whoever they are. The smallest factions might only have to defend 1 of their own planets on a given day. That way their population gets to concentrate more to make up for their lack of numbers while Steiner if they want to defend all worlds will spread out more reducing their numerical superiority.

In general I'm also curious to hear anything new about the system for determining when/what planets are contested on a given CW day. Is that all manual or is anything procedural? Can players influence those decisions at all somehow? Can permanent players eventually spend huge chunks of LP to choose a planet for their faction to attack or something like that?

Hope you see this, thanks for the updates every two weeks. Need more screen shots.

Edited by Hoax415, 23 October 2014 - 07:12 AM.

[Cimarb]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm more speaking of the "to avoid Comp Players raging BS". Getting a little tired of a handful of compies being the sounding board for all future MWO plans. That's not really good for long term casual player retention, either.

Paul probably should have used a different phrasing, I agree, but what Hoax said is the real issue. New players should never be put in matches with competitive, or even just experienced, players. War Thunder has a bad habit of doing that - basing it only on the tier of the plane being used, not actual player skill/experience - and it is a horrible experience for a new player.

Make the Cadet timeline be progressive for the first 100 matches, starting with the tutorial. Completing the tutorial opens up solo matches in the cadet queue for 25 matches or so to get the basics of PvP, and then for the next 75 matches solo and group queue is unlocked, as well as the ability to join a unit. Once 100 matches are completed - regardless of queue - the Cadet tag is removed and CW is opened to the player, fully "unlocking" the game.

[Bront]

Paul, What incentives are there for a group to permanently align with any faction? Without seasons, it seems it limits your team's players more than anything else?

[Tezcatli]

Jody Von Jedi, on 23 October 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

If PGI blocked moving from IS to Clan and back, lots of people couldn't use their mechs they paid RL money for. Not a good business plan if they locked people out of their own mechs.

Jody

I can understand that rational. But they could create the option to have both an IS pilot and Clan pilot profile. And just have them join up in two separate groups. Instead swapping between Clan and IS on a whim.

[Bront]

Finster, on 22 October 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

Good to know that Phoenix buyers are getting screwed over on the LP "bonus". YAY A ONE TIME LUMP SUM! *fart*

THat's a one time lump sum. You still have the mechs and items that give you a bonus. It's basically a payoff for the bonus we could have received if CW was running this entire time, and it's at least a jesture of good faith, they could simply not bother.

[Bhael Fire]

Will Wolf's Dragoons ever be a faction in this game?

If so, does the original plan of attaining a certain amount of LP in each of the IS houses before you can join them still hold true?

[Bront]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

only real concern:

"I would highly recommend that you add a new restriction preventing new players (those who have not finished their first 25 cadet matches) from participating. This will prevent much rage from competitive teams.

This is something we can discuss and has been mentioned. I'll fill everyone in if anything comes of this. We do think it would not be ideal for a brand new player to drop into CW."



Really? While I agree it might not be ideal, are we catering CW to the 1% ? Am I really the only one getting tired of everything catering to the "Comp Crowd"? I am glad you are (probably) doing away with Leagues, as I am relatively certain mos tof the playerbase is not here for Esports. But I could not possibly care less about "rage from competitive teams".

Half the headaches players have dealt with over the last 2 years is spawned from Metarape from Comps. (The other half bad balancing). Give them their little leagues where they can cookie cutter meta to their hearts content.

Playing 25 matches in the regular queus before you can drop in CW is hardly catering to the 1%. Unless you think 99% of all players haven't played 25 matches.

My unit is a competitive team even if we're not a "Comp Team". We want to win, and if we get paired, or lose a planet because a unit of players who have never played in trial mechs can't hold up against another team, we'd be kinda irked.

Think of it this way. You can't play in the top dungeons in many MMOs without leveling up your character first. 25 matches is hardly a huge grind.

[Tsuki Ookami vas Mugunghwa]

ok, i have a question to the loyalty points.

you say that you keep your loyalty rewards, even after you change factions.

you also say that you lose all loyalty points upon changing a faction.


so, lets say i first join steiner and gain points until i unlock the title "Hauptmann" (just a guess). now i change to another faction.
i still have the title unlocked. but after all my points are wiped i'm now no longer allowed to bear the title. even if i never actually fight against steiner in the future?

that's like... total crap for every merc unit!

i mean, you go and make a contract, fight your best and after the 1 (2, 4) months are over you can say bye bye to everything you have unlocked? sucks.

[Jody Von Jedi]

Tezcatli, on 23 October 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

I can understand that rational. But they could create the option to have both an IS pilot and Clan pilot profile. And just have them join up in two separate groups. Instead swapping between Clan and IS on a whim.

I agree, I actually suggested that as well in another thread. I used Star Trek Online as an example. I'm not playing it anymore, but when I did, you could have 2 characters under the same account. One Starfleet and one Klingon.

Jody

[McKlig]

I'd like to know, whether repair and rearm will be implemented in community warfare.
Maybe repair/rearm could be paid after the a match with the loyalty points you gathered in the match (e.g. let the house pay for your costs) or with c-bills.
So everyone has the choice to maximize loyality points or cbills.

[OznerpaG]

seems like the contract thing is more complicated than it needs to be - why can't it be that when you change factions, you'r stuck with that faction for a month. once that month is over, then anytime after that you can change factions (and be stuck with the new one for a minimum of a month), or stick with the one you are currently with indefinitely

if you want to be permanently aligned to a faction, then you'd simply never change factions - but if you ever wanted to then you can

in this case an LP multiplier should be considered according to how long you'v been with a specific faction - everybody starts off making base LP earnings for their first month, once you'v been aligned for a month you might start getting LP*1.1, after 2 months LP*1.2, etc



also i think a bonus for aligning with a less popular faction should be considered to make sure all sides are represented well - i noticed in a list of units that Marik was the least populated so there should be a way to encourage more units to join Marik so they get proper representation in defensive/offensive actions. that or contested planets should be multiplied on factions that have more members.

this is where i think lone wolves shouldn't have to choose any faction - they can fight on any contested planet anytime they want to help bolster a less-represented faction and give lone wolves more opportunities to fight more often, but maybe they get little or no LP but more CB. as a lone wolf i don't think you'd care about earning any rank since you work for yourself, but there should be penalties if you fight for Kurita one battle then against Kurita the next. of course all IS vs Clan battles would be 'safe' for lone wolves



i also like the idea of the 'alter ego' which was brought up in a previous post - when you switch from IS to clan and back again, what you do as a Clanner shouldn't affect what you did when you were IS aligned, and vice-versa. it'd be nice to change from IS to Clan and back again as a change of pace without punishment



and just to clarify, if i join as Marik then i change to Kurita, then as long as i never engage in a battle that involves Marik and vice versa then all LP is preserved for both sides? if i'm Kurita and i fight Steiner, then my previous boss Marik isn't going to to penalize me when i'm fighting the same enemy i may have been before with Marik. and they'd also never penalize me for fighting any Clan faction

so in this case, i'm thinking i could theoretically change between one of Marik, Davion, and Rasalhague factions every month and since none border each other i could theoretically keep my LP for all 3 since it's unlikely they would ever fight against each other?

Edited by JagdFlanker, 23 October 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[Stormfury]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 22 October 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

- rewards ... titles, skins, skins and other novelites. ... cute, but not very interesting
... How about:
- - access to more dangerous (but more lucrative) contracts?
- - better CB pricing for favored 'mechs and equipment?
- - CB and XP rewards for stuff in a match?
- - LP / Faction-specific achievements?
- - access to experimental/exclusive technology?

How about Faction only mechs/variants? Thought that was the plan all along! Titles and skins alone isn't going to get many very excited about it.

[Bront]

Tsuki Ookami vas Mugunghwa, on 23 October 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

ok, i have a question to the loyalty points.

you say that you keep your loyalty rewards, even after you change factions.

you also say that you lose all loyalty points upon changing a faction.


so, lets say i first join steiner and gain points until i unlock the title "Hauptmann" (just a guess). now i change to another faction.
i still have the title unlocked. but after all my points are wiped i'm now no longer allowed to bear the title. even if i never actually fight against steiner in the future?

that's like... total crap for every merc unit!

i mean, you go and make a contract, fight your best and after the 1 (2, 4) months are over you can say bye bye to everything you have unlocked? sucks.

Agreed. The only times you should be losing loyalty points is when you leave, when you choose not to come back to Steiner (IE, when you renew or change again), or when you fight against stiener. The initial leaving loss should be reasonable but sizable, and the rewew loss should be minimal.

That said, you can't access any of the loyalty rewards if you're not loyal to that faction anyway, so it's only an issue if you return to Steiner.

[Hoax415]

Bront, on 23 October 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

Paul, What incentives are there for a group to permanently align with any faction? Without seasons, it seems it limits your team's players more than anything else?

Well first off we don't yet know how individual player contracts versus group contracts work. Does being in a group just override a players personal contract? Nullify it? Can a player who say signs up for a 4 month Davion contract even join a unit that has a Clan contract running? There's a huge piece of the pie that is missing.

If CW was for players in units only this would be simple but solo players all get to pick their own contract so we'll need to determine how that interacts with unit contracts before we can answer the types of questions you are asking.

Tezcatli, on 23 October 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

I can understand that rational. But they could create the option to have both an IS pilot and Clan pilot profile. And just have them join up in two separate groups. Instead swapping between Clan and IS on a whim.

Who says its on a whim? The penalties for swapping from IS to Clan or Clan to IS should be the biggest out of any faction swap.

You seem to be assuming that all faction swaps cost a player all his LP. I don't think Paul has said that at all I went into a lot more detail in this post:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3846483

[Cimarb]

Bhael Fire, on 23 October 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

Will Wolf's Dragoons ever be a faction in this game?

If so, does the original plan of attaining a certain amount of LP in each of the IS houses before you can join them still hold true?

You can still easily do that with achievements. Earn the top rank in the Kurita faction, earn the achievement for doing so. Switch to Steiner and lose all loyalty points, but still have the achievement. Earn the top rank in the Steiner faction, earn achievement, rinse repeat. Earn all the achievements, and get the meta-achievement for Wolfs Dragoons. Done deal.

[Almond Brown]

p4r4g0n, on 22 October 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

I get that people are saying they want to be able to use all their mechs and they can't wait till the restart to switch. However, does anyone want to bet AGAINST the possibility that the there will be a fair number of units switching in month 2 and 3 as the winning side becomes clearer?

How are contracts structured? i.e. is there any point in staying loyal if the faction you chose loses every significant engagement in the first month? I haven't seen any mention about whether CW combat provides C-Bill / XP rewards or should I just assume that it will be similar to the Public queue rewards?

"Special case: If a Lone Wolf player (or any player for that matter) switches Factions after completing a contract, they will lose LP for the Faction they just left. Depending on which Faction the player switches to, this LP loss for a Faction would continue depending on the Factions involved."

If a player loses the LP of the Faction they just left when switching, how does the player continue to lose LP for that Faction since all of the Faction's LP would already have been lost after the switch?

If deciphered correctly, the Lose of a switch is not TOTAL LP gone, but based on the switch, based on the provided Kurita to Davion, any Davion activities against Kurita would drain Kuritan LP.

To retain Kurita LP as Davion, simply avoid any/all Contracts against the Kuritans.

P.S. May be unavoidable but hopefully LP loss will match Davion gains....

Sam Slade, on 22 October 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

Big Issue!

I want to buy Clan Mech Packs and Inner Sphere Mech Packs! I want to use all my Mechs in Community Warfare(I'm actually looking at upgrading 2 x Mech packs so I have enough solid Mechs for drop decks! spend spend spend)...

Oh wait... why can I not create a Clan persona and an Inner Sphere persona? I used to do that all the time in other games so I could experience playing as good and evil... ah well... now I have to decide which Mechs not to buy... not to buy... not to buy...(fade out in regretful flashback way).

QUESTION: Could we not choose both a Clan and an IS faction with the limitation that they do not fight in the same theater of operations? Avoids conflict of interest... allows me to buy your stuff

If not done already, a Smurf account for the "other" faction would work. That way you get maximum flexibility even if your Group takes permanent position, Clan or IS. Check with the brass on that before Smurfing.

[Almond Brown]

Sam Slade, on 23 October 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

Big issue for us fickle customers who will not buy something if we cannot use it in the 'real'(CW) game whenever we want.Worth noting this is how most customers think...

And how would you approach that issue? Allow any player, regardless of affiliation to be Clan @ 8:30pm Tuesday and then switch to IS at 11:30 that same Tuesday? A Contract has to have some lifetime. Is the noted 30 days to big a time frame for the Fickle?

[Bront]

Hoax415, on 23 October 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

Well first off we don't yet know how individual player contracts versus group contracts work. Does being in a group just override a players personal contract? Nullify it? Can a player who say signs up for a 4 month Davion contract even join a unit that has a Clan contract running? There's a huge piece of the pie that is missing.

If CW was for players in units only this would be simple but solo players all get to pick their own contract so we'll need to determine how that interacts with unit contracts before we can answer the types of questions you are asking.

I believe they already stated the group contracts override solo contracts. It makes sense, otherwise you could be in a group on IS, and play solo on clans at the same time, which is part of what it's trying to avoid.